What happened to WTC 7 again?

Toasted you are right, it's called denial.

Fear of the consequences of believing such an act. People rely too much on the government to bring them peace of mind, to make them feel safe in a world full of government created threats that are really no threat at all.

Our own government has killed far more U.S. citizens than middle eastern terrorists have.

It's a normal reaction, well maybe not normal but very comon. How many Germans refused to believe what was going on in the concentration camps?
Some truths are just too much to handle as they say.

Originally posted by BigTrain
BUT, now consider that almost half of the wtc exterior steel was destroyed by the plane and then the damage to the concrete core, and then the complete annihilation of 5 floors in the wtc and the loss of fire proofing by the exlosion and the fact that the water lines were blown to bits and no firemen, so a raging inferno etc.....

Train

You may be a structural engineer but these statements show me that you don't know what you are talking about. Half the exterior steel was destroyed? Not even on one story, let alone the entire building.

Concrete core? There was no concrete core.

Complete annihilation of 5 floors. When? How could a lady be standing in the hole left by the plane if the floors were annihilated?

Oh, by the way....I'm a Civil Engineer myself with a structural background.

Originally posted by BigTrain

I cant believe how you would not think otherwise. As for all your other conspiracy theories, i cant comment on those, other than to say, whatever.

Whatever? How professional of you.

The wtc 7 tower fell straight down because the bottom stories were smashed to hell from the wtc collapse, from the debris that shot outward to the sides

If this was the case....why didn't the tower fall as soon as it was damaged?

There really isnt much more i can say here due to the complete lack of understanding of how buildings work. I keep getting attacked by people who have no knowledge of the subject.

Why is it that when I post something with facts, like say for example, the method of collapse of the transfer girder in murrah, I get atacked for comparing it to the wtc which I clearly stated was in no way related to the wtc. Why do I get attacked by you for saying that the fire only needs to be 300 degrees to cause significant warping of the steel columns, then I am attacked because you say i dont know anything about fire.

You guys, listen. If you want to debate the structural elements, let' do it. If you got questions, I can try to answer them, but im not going to answer things when you just attack me and being involved in the coverup somehow, or saying I dont know what im talking about.

So please. Pick a question or problem, ask one and I will respond. Lets keep this civilized shall we.

OK...Go

Train

As for my comment earlier about 5 floors annihilated, heres a photo that clearly shows 5 floors taken out in the north tower. If you look at the picture, you will see small horizontal lines. These are the connection points of the aluminum facade which corresponds to the floor levels. You can clearly count 5 floors gone from the plane.


You can see a man standing at the bottom of the impact which is actually pretty smart, considering his air flow is uninhibited if he was trapped. There are no visible floors spanning any of that 5 floor gap.

Train

In this damage map provided by the city of New York, you can the see the buildings that completely collapsed, buildings that sustained major structural damage and also minor structural damage. This is a great photo and shows the extent of the debris damage.

Originally posted by BigTrain
There are no visible floors spanning any of that 5 floor gap.

Train

If there were no floors from the impact as you state, how did the tower continue standing after impact? According to Euler's formulas, there would be a significant lose of buckling resistance if there were a gap of 5 stories between columns with no lateral support (the 5 floors not being there to support the lateral loads). So, again I ask....how could the tower still stand after it lost 5 floors as you state?

Please do not assume I mean that the 5 floors were gone all the way from one side to the other. Local damage, consisting of the exterior wall through to the central core, so minimum 25% floor area destroyed. To be continued....im searching for high quality photos right now of that area, so far unsuccessful.

Train

Ok guys. Here is an amazing video. Very high quality of the north tower collpase. I must have went over it 30 times just now. There is absolutely no visual evidence of any demo charges whatsoever. You can even see where the exterior wall progression starts, lower left corner of impact.

As for collapsing on its own footprint, watch the other videos on the site, the building collapses very violently, literally ripping itself apart like peeling a banana, debris being thrown outward.

italy.indymedia.org...

Train

I'll let his words speak for themselves

they may not be obvious to all here

and may actually be considered thread drift

I maintain it is ALL connected. Just open your eyes !


" If the American people ever give up their FREEDOM

in exchange for security , they'll end up with neither " !



For years those words just seemed silly , but

taking into consideration the loss of freedoms

already suffered and more to come. I often hear those

words repeating in my head , over and over again .


sad...

------------------------------

funny how NOBODY has addressed the complete

loss of integrity to treated construction

grade steel and just easily accepts excuses

for it to " just collapse " as being OK ! omg !

I'm sorry , but I challange anyone to
drop steel from 50 or a hundred stories
and see it snap like a HEATH BAR
without fixing it first so it breaks like that






[edit on 27-3-2006 by toasted]

Who do you think you're kidding BigTrain? That video skips about half of the frames, including those that would clearly document squibs. It does however, document the groundshaking well before the collapse. It's obvious you are not as qualified as you claim to be from what you said before, now this...

Get lost.

Bill Oreilly issued an open challenge about 2 years ago to anyone who could prove to him any single 1 freedom lost since the patriot act. In return, he would pay them $60,000 if they did it. Not one person accepted the challenge.

Train

[edit on 27-3-2006 by BigTrain]

Originally posted by Lumos
Who do you think you're kidding BigTrain? That video skips about half of the frames, including those that would clearly document squibs. It does however, document the groundshaking well before the collapse. It's obvious you are not as qualified as you claim to be from what you said before, now this...

Get lost.

The video I have is perfectly still, perfectly dvd quality. Are you sure you have divx downloaded to play the clip? Skips half the frames, what r u talking about? Thanks for the compliment btw.


Train

How about freedom of speech? Look what happens to people criticizing the administration, in case you can locate them under the mountains of mud. How about the right to protest? Be sure not to violate your free-speech zone. The right to a fair trial? See ya in Gitmo, or maybe never again. What about the right to privacy? Got some pre-paid phones handy?

You can't even say "Olbermann" on O'Reilly's show without being cut off and threatened with "Fox Security". LOL. Falafel.

Originally posted by BigTrain
Bill Oreilly issued an open challenge about 2 years ago to anyone who could prove to him any single 1 freedom lost since the patriot act. In return, he would pay them $60,000 if they did it. Not one person accepted the challenge.

Train

[edit on 27-3-2006 by BigTrain]

This is all from memory but....how about due process? Have any of the people sent to Guantanimo had due process?

Search and seizure laws......now they don't need a warrant.

Spying on American citizens.....Bush may still get into trouble for this one.

Where's my $60,000 O'Rielly?

Great minds think alike Lumos. Good job.

Lumos, pull your head out bro. You got anything substantial to add to this debate, or just slander? You have any evidence like I have posted, you got any videos? You got any photos? You got any audio to document the so called squibs and demo charges? Do you have any sources other than heresay? Do you have any evidence whatsoever. Do you have any credentials? Do you even know the difference between critical buckling and local web buckling? Do you know anything about P-delta effects?

I think its better if you stayed in the rip bush apart liberal propaganda forums. This is obviously way above you.

Train

Griff, email oreilly, im sure he'd love to debate it with you, this isnt the place for that, this is about the wtc 7 collapse and the twin towers.

Train

Actually, this thread is just about WTC7. Plus, you're the one that brought up O'Reilly. That's twice in this thread you bring something up and get shot down and cry...this isn't the thread about that.

Griff, im so amazed dude. You have supplied such an informative discussion in this thread. Good job. I guess im done here unless anyone wants to continue the factual debate,

Train