ATS: 911 Scholars for Truth Member Murdered

The offense is to insinuate, like some members and others who shouldn't be doing so, that because someone else does not agree immediately with their opinion and they don't quickly submit and accept the idea of "it must be a conspiracy theory" those people are immediately labeled "government agents" or whatever other label some try to give...

If you want to discuss the facts, then discuss the facts instead of relying on ad hominem attacks.

Originally posted by billybob
i'm always amazed when 'vocal' members become 'wounded' by others 'strong speech'.

especially 'tough guys'.

It is not about "wounded feelings"...I assure you i am not shedding a tear over this, despite your patronizing attempts....

This is a forum for discussion of facts, not for ad hominem attacks.

if I ever become "vocal" is because people like yourself try to present facts, which have nothing based on reality and try to claim that because someone doesn't want to believe those theories you want to agree to, they must immediately be government agents or some other outrageous label in attempts to dismiss common sense.

Originally posted by Muaddib
if I ever become "vocal" is because people like yourself try to present facts, which have nothing based on reality

I could *so* go Howard with this right now! XD

As for facts, I'd say they're pretty slim on either side on this issue (on the TOPIC issue, I should say), unless you're either the police department, or some black ops group, or really both. Then I'm sure you'd know what did or did not happen. Otherwise, all of this stuff is just tediousness. All we do know is that it is statistically improbable that a member of S9/11T be killed every year or so, as Odium earlier suggested.

Crack heads, nervous trigger finger, didn't even kill him with TWO head shots. professional....no, amatuerish to a fault.

If you wanted to make a statement, wouldn't you kill a founder?

www.wboy.com...

Case closed......

Originally posted by esdad71
Case closed......

Ever heard of a patsy? Or the term "framed" or anything of the sort?

I'm not saying this dude was deliberately murdered as a part of a black op; I really wouldn't know. But seriously, case closed? Look at JFK. They found Oswald in no time, but what exactly did that solve? Usually, case closed comes with something a little more substantial than finding a suspect.

Originally posted by esdad71

If you wanted to make a statement, wouldn't you kill a founder?

That depends on what kind of statement you want to make.

Originally posted by esdad71
www.wboy.com...

Case closed......

I'm sorry, what? Did you just say case closed, again? Is that supposed to be a Joke? Didn't you learn anything the last time the Police arrested two suspects in this investigation and you called it Case closed?

Wboy.com

Now police have two people in custody. The two suspects that are now in custody are 22 year old Lasonya Miles and a 17 year old juvenile.

The police in Minneapolis have also issued a warrant for the arrest of an additional juvenile they believe was involved in the crime. But Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak says this investigation is far from over.

Do you take the time to read the articles you post, Columbo?

The fact is that it is tied to FIVE locals, as far as this thread, CASE CLOSED. Like I stated at the end of the thread, I hope the get waht they deserve, but the teh conspiracy case is over.

Originally posted by esdad71
Like I stated at the end of the thread, I hope the get waht they deserve, but the teh conspiracy case is over.

It's looking less and less likely that this was a conspiracy of the nature implied, yes, but the "Conspiracy Case" is not over at all. The Police have two suspects in custody. Nobody has been charged. There has been no trial, there has been no anything. Just because someone is arrested on suspicion of a crime it doesn't automatically mean they are guilty of it. "Innocent until proven guilty." Remember?

Originally posted by esdad71
CASE CLOSED.

No!

Does the 71 in your username represent your date of birth? If it does, I can't believe I'm having to explain this to someone 10 years to my senior.

All: Please stay on topic!

esdad has a way of "pope-ishly" pronouncing that his opinion is the truth.

the case is obviously nowhere near close to closed, and yet, the repetition of 'case closed' is somehow supposed to sway the truth of the matter to match esdad's opinion?

well, i think that i could personally go down to the local pub, and find some down and out morally bankrupt individual to do just about ANYTHING for fifty bucks. and i don't even have FIFTY YEARS of mkultra-type brainwashing techniques at my disposal.

the obvious reason not to take out one of the higher profile members, is that it gives validity to what the members are saying(and proving). the reason to take out a 'pawn' in this "anonymous" manner, is that it is INDIRECT INTIMIDATION. the scholars WERE shaken up by this, and are 'relieved' that is was a 'random crime'.

but, then, the scholars AREN'T CONSPIRACY THEORISTS. they are INVESTIGATING TRUTH, nothing more, nothing less.

i, however, am 'watching their backs'.

I am speaking of you conspiracy bieng closed, not the case in point with the soon to be convicts.

You don't have to explain the justice system to me, thanks. That is not what this thread was about, it was about the gov't snuffing a scholars for truth member, right? This is what is no longer valid, and now if you like you can follow the story till they are convicted.

Originally posted by esdad71
I am speaking of you conspiracy bieng closed, not the case in point with the soon to be convicts.

How do you know they are soon to be convicts? You may very well be right, but how do you know that? You were wrong the first time they arrested someone, so there's a fairly good chance you're wrong again.

Originally posted by esdad71
You don't have to explain the justice system to me, thanks. That is not what this thread was about, it was about the gov't snuffing a scholars for truth member, right?

No, this thread is about the murder of a 9/11 Scholars for truth member named Michael Zebuhr. The author speculated he thought the Government were responsible, and this whole thread is a discussion about whether they are or not. This thread is also about collecting information on the ongoing investigation.

Obviously someone had to point out some of the basic concepts of the justice system to you, esdad71, as you seem to think that as soon as a young black youth is arrested in connection with this murder, the case is closed. Even if you were just talking about the conspiracy aspect of this case being "closed", you could still be totally wrong. There are about 150+ possibilities as to how the Government could still be connected to this murder, and some of them aren't too far fetched at all, in fact they are indeed quite plausible.

Originally posted by esdad71
This is what is no longer valid, and now if you like you can follow the story till they are convicted.

Are you able to determine the outcome of future events? Like I've said before, you may well be right that these guys killed Zebuhr, and that the Government, or the scholars work for the 9/11 truth movement were nothing to do with it, then again, you might be completely wrong. We may never know for sure. Do everyone a favour, including yourself, and stop trying to tell everyone what's happened here, like you know, because you're just as clueless as the rest of us.

Originally posted by esdad71
I am speaking of you conspiracy bieng closed, not the case in point with the soon to be convicts.

You don't have to explain the justice system to me, thanks. That is not what this thread was about, it was about the gov't snuffing a scholars for truth member, right? This is what is no longer valid, and now if you like you can follow the story till they are convicted.

you are easily convinced. i wish i was a salesmen in your neck of the woods.

once again, you have decided what the truth is, and have proclaimed it as gospel.
dude. it's your OPINION.

my opinion is unchanged. i think this was most likely black-ops designed to muffle the voices of the 911 scholars for truth. anyone who joins the conspiracy believers is immediately marginalised and demonised by the establishment. this in itself is suspicious.
if the government and the media have nothing to hide, why are they hiding evidence, ignoring testimony, and assassinating the character of dissenters? shouldn't a lie fall on it's face all by itself?

i watched 911eyewitness again, last night, and the sound of bombs is obvious and (more) proof that the towers were bombed. much of the visible evidence, and the sounds have previously been hidden from the public, and this video reveals them.

the demolition waves going down the side of the tower, outpace the freefalling debris at the beginning of the first collapse(perhaps the second, too, but i have not seen footage of that). this is also proof that bombs were used.
the molten metal in the basement indicates bombs.
tower seven's fall time and symmetry indicate controlled demolition.
videos of flashes, and eyewitness reports of flashes indicate controlled demolition.
it is proven over and over again to ME that the towers were 'pulled'.

if i can figure it out, so can anyone.

which leads to the lies and manipulation of the media and the government. they are lying, and there is a huge cover-up. the magnitude of this orwellian/rove-ian 'create your own reality' is simply mind-boggling.
and, yet, irrefutable to anyone who has seen all the evidence, and has the scientific knowledge and critical reasoning skills to know what 'proof' is.

if they can kill kennedy in broad daylight, and blow up the tallest skyscrapers in new york, and completely IGNORE evidence, and DESTROY evidence, and FABRICATE evidence, then i personally think that it is 'just another day at the office' to have some innocent kid, who was 'cursed' with scientific knowledge, and the ability to do critical thinking, 'whacked' 'anonymously'.

like i said, for fifty bucks, i could get terrible things done. perhaps you do not understand what desperate people are willing to do for money or survival.

esdad71 is trying to mislead. CASE CLOSED.

[edit on 5-4-2006 by billybob]

I believe someone wacked him, he was too close to the truth. and it was made to look like a random act.

Sorry to add to the length of this thing, but I'd just like to add a personal comment (no fancy links, etc.).
All of this off-topic stuff makes working through the threads a tedious exercise. No way to know if there is a purpose there.
As for the statistical stuff, I think one would need to incorporate numbers of all the various investigative citizens not just the one group to which this victim belonged.
On something this early stage, I'd like to see helpful/insightful suggestions as for what to be on the lookout for as far as the kind of thing which may be helpful in determining what, if anything, untoward went on there.

crazy. the minute I read the first line I thought this was rather... disturbing/fishy, whatever you wanna call it. I cant help but wonder if this was not a random act of violence, or if it was an actual plot to remove this individual.

shocking i can't imagine this

why would anyone want this to happen?

Some people actually think this matter as a conspiracy is "Case closed" because the "officially story" right now is a mugging...and they have some "local suspects" as if this proves something? Since when? That makes me LMAO

OMGosh what do we expect? Of course the official story isn't going to be that there is suspicion this was orchestrated as a hit, by hired/coerced locals.

It is the same reasoning I find flawed when people say...oh it was obviously amatuer or random act not a hit...because it was done by local thugs...and they didn't kill him properly with one shot...as if that proves it wasn't professionally orchestrated to have those very qualities!

As I have said from the begining and throughout this thread-it is the perfect crime.

It gets rid of one Scholar for Truth, sends a clear message to the rest, without being an obvious "hit" to the public, with locals used to help try to make it seem like a random act of violence and of course who will never talk because of whatever hangs over them...and it will be interesting to see if they live long.

As far as the other scholars being convinced it was a random crime and random act of viloence...yeah well you'd pretty much do the same, and I'd expect nothing less if they were already being threatened, can "see" what will happen if they do not "cooperate" with this story and possibly supressing findings they have about 9-11

...and it (the threat) might not be about their own lives, but other loved ones that are at stake...you know...'your wife could have a tragic car accident...or your sister could have a random act of viloence and be raped and murdered...'

I mean people, you must know how these things work.

Of course a professional hit would be too obvious, and would make the more prestigous scholars martyrs. The fact the professors are trying to help curb any conspiracy theories...welll does that tell you? I know what it tells me, very little, and raises my suspcians a whole lot.

What would be their motivation to cooperate and tell the public and curb any suspicion that this could be foul play? There is EXTREME motivation if this is what some of us believe-a well orchestrated hit-and they are being coerced/intimidated into help covering it.

However if it was a random act...why would they really feel the need so soon to come right out and make a public statement about it? To say it was a tragedy-sure...if asked if it was seen as a hit...well what would be gained to say "yeah maybe"...or "looks suspicious" or "we don't know" ??? There is NONE. They couldn't and wouldn't do anything but what they did and say it looks as the police and official story reports...like a random act of violence and a tragedy.

Whether they KNEW it was a hit or NOT...they would NOT be stupid enough to put their necks on the block EITHER way as it would ensure them NOTHING, no safety at this point if loved ones were threatened to simlarly be taken out in some tragic way...a poisoning to look like illness...a car wreck...whatever.

Their "official" statement on the subject is no more credible to me than the official story that it is a mugging. If they knew, or had suspicians it was a hit, or had already suffered threats...they'd NOT say a thing about any of that and either way, if asked, they'd take the safe route, and say "seemed random"...what choice do they have...what choice would you have between your daughter's rape...your sisters life being likewise jharmed in such a random act that the public would overlook?

perfection.

[edit on 7-4-2006 by think2much]

You guys really need to up the dose of your zoloft. This thread is about the death of a young man, and many of you decided to make it a conspiracy, that the founder of scholars said was bunk.

If you do not understand the state of America today and the crime rate I cannot help that. Ths was a crime in a city that has had a HUGE increase in violent crime in the last year.

I have already stated that I hope that the individuals responsible for this are prosecuted, but as far as a conspiracy this is over. Sorry you can't just accept it and realize what you stated was incorrect.

You have been turned into paranoid government haters and it is not pretty. Also, before I type, I research, and that is where the conviction in my statements comes from.

[edit on 7-4-2006 by esdad71]

Sorry esdad71, but no amount of zoloft will blot out the truth.

There is also no way you can make up for the way your Flt. 93 thread got away from you.

The biggest conspiracy about 9/11 remains 9/11 itself.

You are now neck-in-neck with Muaddib. Congratulations!