The Torture Chamber: Guantanamo Bay

Well Seekerof is correct, China, N-Korea and Zimbabwe have terrible human rights records, the problem is that the US is supposed to stand up for human rights and is failing.

Originally posted by Peace
Well Seekerof is correct, China, N-Korea and Zimbabwe have terrible human rights records, the problem is that the US is supposed to stand up for human rights and is failing.

This is exactly what I'm talking about! Preach it!

Peace, we differ alot, but I will and would agree....we have "our" standards and reasoning verses that which we "press" the world nations to uphold.
I contested this with you in my early days and apologized for what I said, cause "I" was wrong.
Thank you for agreeing to my point, though untimely, it was a "point" nonetheless. We can all talk about the hypocritical things that the US does, that I DO NOT agree with, but we often times MISS that these situations occur around the world daily.....and NO ONE mentions them.

GITMO gets my nerves...I will admit, but to specifically target GITMO, WITHOUT targeting other occurrences just eats me up. My apologies but wanted to address this to you anyways...thanks.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 10-10-2003 by Seekerof]

I'm not going to throw any stones directly....but it sounds like more than one person here actually believes what their first grade teacher told them about the U.S. government,"our benevelent protector of all that is good".Who here actually thinks that our form of government started out as a pure,uncontaminated,altruistic endeavour ? The founding fathers were the rich insiders of the time,politically tied to "special interests", who would by our "Patriot Act" be defined not as heros,but something else.This is not to say that there was nothing positive and new about the basic principles of religious and political freedom.I'm NOT slamming the founding fathers or democracy.
The "success" of our country has basically been based on the outright GENOCIDE of the native peoples who originally inhabited this land. Cheating,lying,stealing and killing have all been a part of the equasion from the very beginning.Sometimes it sounds like you guys think that this country was once the virginal prom queen who grew-up to become a nun,only to be later kidknapped and defiled by "evil forces".
Torture and use of force are the currency of all governments.Let's face it,the rule of law is really only based upon the FACT that if you break the law,they will come and lock you up,beat you up,take your property,or kill you.(Basically some fancy combination of all of the above). I saw this current scenario coming about an hour sfter the 911 attacks.I personally sensed that the world we all knew would change.I feel that these are darker times than what we even want to acknowledge.
We are losing liberties by the score,our environment is being destroyed,and once again,(seemingly), the use of violence is seen as THE means to an end.
We are at war with a faceless enemy,we currently occupy a huge piece of middle-eastern territory,and our government is openly holding people and torturing them beyond the boundaries of our own legal system.We're sitting here watching it as if it were all in a fish bowl.
What is different about this? Why is anyone surprised?
One relevent question is: Is torturing people worth stopping a terrorist attack? I say it depends on the circumstances. This stuff isn't new-it's just overt.

[Edited on 9/29/03 by shamanseeker]

[Edited on 9/29/03 by shamanseeker]

The terrorists who would kill your socialist mothers and babies are being held at Gitmo because they warred against the USA.

I could care less if they have ear muffs and sunglasses on really??!

Seekerof's point is that you whining terrorist apologists only find outrage in this world if it invoves the USA.
N.Korea is starving millions of people to feed it's military, China-hmmm, can't have a 3rd child there unless you know someone??!- get real. Gitmo is a fairly mundane camp compared to the horrors OUR SOILDERS would endure in the hands of those you defend here daily.

I can understand the ignorance of foriegners, but some of our own citicens need to pack a bag.

[Edited on 11-10-2003 by Tyriffic]

Originally posted by THENEO
Seekerof,

these people are so desparate to destroy America so that they can implement a socialist paradise to their liking that they will say and do anything.

someone should tell them one thing though, they are the foot soldiers for the socialists weasels and once they get to power they will be treated just the same as the right wing scum will be.

what foolish people.

THENEO, you, of course, never answered my question. Have you ever SERVED your country in the military? Foolish people accuse others of things which they know NOTHING about. Your above quote is utterly laughable and shows a breathtaking lack of knowledge. I love the United States and what it SHOULD stand for. What I always ASSUMED it stood for, AND what I thought I FOUGHT for in the UNITED STATES ARMY - IN A WAR. HAVE YOU? I highly doubt it, friend. You'd have a much deeper grasp of reality. There's nothing equal to being inside the belly of the beast. And by the way, I'd fight in DEFENSE of my country ANY day of the week, month or year. Would you?

A top Red Cross official has broken with tradition by publicly attacking conditions at the US military base on Cuba where al-Qaeda suspects are being held.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by Seekerof

"Zimbabwe"

"Pinochet and Chile: Dedicated to Pinochet's victims

Need anymore....?
Hypocrits.....!

Thats right...the blind leading with a walking stick named self-serving agenda's.


regards
seekerof

Mate,

"Pinochet and Chile":

- US CIA operation / operative.
(Coup was CIA planned, Pinochet was CIA agent.)

"Zimbabwe":

- Well you good Americans did want the white rule and order to end there didnt you?

- So that Rhodesia could become 'your' average African nation full of violence and anarchy..



Seeker,

This way you just make US look even worse..

But what do i care..



Btw, it is easy to be a "hypocrit" when the facts are 110% on my side..

Originally posted by FULCRUM

Originally posted by Seekerof

"Zimbabwe"

"Pinochet and Chile: Dedicated to Pinochet's victims

Need anymore....?
Hypocrits.....!

Thats right...the blind leading with a walking stick named self-serving agenda's.


regards
seekerof

Mate,

"Pinochet and Chile":

- US CIA operation / operative.
(Coup was CIA planned, Pinochet was CIA agent.)

..

Seeker,

This way you just make US look even worse..

But what do i care..

Btw, it is easy to be a "hypocrit" when the facts are 110% on my side..

More on Pinochet:

CHILE: 16,000 SECRET U.S. DOCUMENTS DECLASSIFIED
CIA FORCED TO RELEASE HUNDREDS OF RECORDS ON COVERT OPERATIONS
National Security Archive calls Release a Victory for Openness;
Pushes for further Declassification
www.gwu.edu...