Flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania, and this is the biggest 9/11 cover up of them all.

Originally posted by RocketScientist We were two miles from the US central maintenance hub for the entire Air Force and not a single plane was in the air...

No such place exists! Lie # 1

Originally posted by RocketScientist
Fact 1: All planes were ordered grounded before Flight 93 was even a publicly known incident.

No source! Lie # 2

Originally posted by RocketScientist
Fact 2: Eight F22 Raptors were scrambled from Wright Patterson Air Force Base in four sets of two.

There were not 8 F-22's at WP in 2001! Lie # 3

Originally posted by RocketScientist
After 30 minutes of silence, we went back up on the roof to load tools and watched these planes outrun their own sound by at least a mile while no more than 1500 feet off the ground heading East.

Impossible aerodynamics! Lie # 4

Fact 3: No other planes flew in or out of WPAFB for at least an hour after the pentagon got hit. When we all left the jobsite, we watched the sky all the way home.

Prove it or it's Lie #5

Originally posted by RocketScientist
QUESTION: Why would you ground all flights across the country and scramble intercept fighter jets if you were not prepared to shoot down non compliant airliners that had diverted from their course?

Tryther Myth


You need to find another place to post your BS. It won't sell while I'm here

[edit on 9-9-2009 by Reheat]

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by RocketScientist
Fact 2: Eight F22 Raptors were scrambled from Wright Patterson Air Force Base in four sets of two.

There were not 8 F-22's at WP in 2001! Lie # 3

Yes @$$hat, there were several DOZEN F22's at Wright Pat. The first F-22 fighter aircraft was unveiled in April 1997. They were being flown in and out of there daily, being delivered to many different locations around the world and getting new equipment tested. Wright Pat is the Central maintenance and Logistics hub for the entire Freaking US AIR FORCE. READ-> www.airforce-technology.com... THE F22 WAS Developed at Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. Ever hear of Hangar 18 Flame boy? I have been inside Hangar 18. Have you? My Step Father was a Brigadier General in the USAF you flaming idiot. (At Wright Patterson AFB)

The first flight of the F-22 (non-prototype standard) was in 1997, the military didn't get the first one delivered until 2005. Wright Patterson was NOT a test base for them for flight testing. The flight test program was at Edwards AFB, Nellis AFB, and out of the plant at Marietta, GA. Wright Pat, was the location of the F-22 Systems Program Office, but they didn't have actual airframes there testing.

I'd be impressed if there were "dozens" of F-22s at Wright Pat on 9/11 considering that the first production aircraft wasn't delivered until January of 2003. You don't build dozens of prototype aircraft for flight testing, you build a handful, then the rest up to production standard. The AF didn't HAVE "dozens" of F-22s until 2004, when the 51st was delivered.

[edit on 9/10/2009 by Zaphod58]

reply to post by Zaphod58


*Snip*

www.f22-raptor.com...

uhh, take a look at 2000 and 2001. THE LIVE FIRE TESTS WERE PERFORMED AT WRIGHT PAT ... this says 4001 but, these planes were in and out of Wright pat daily. We were in that area all week doing insurance reroofs on hail damaged Apartments for off base housing.

I dont care what the "WIKI" says and what your best source for information is. I'm telling you what we saw was 4 sets of F22's leave Wright Pat heading East between 9:40 and 9:50 am September 11, 2001. 9 eyewitnesses, all sober, and all freaked out about the *Snip* we were listening to on the radio and totally screwing up a roof project on a 2 story duplex about a mile and four or five blocks from the East gate. They flew within rifle shot of us so fast that the sound didn't hit us until they were almost a mile away.

Funny how you two cue in on Raptors at Wright Pat and totally miss the point of the post in the first place. Derailing the question in the first place... WHAT? you work for the B team? Raptors were not the ONLY thing in the air that day when everything was supposed to be GROUNDED. There was a interceptor over the white house and one over Shanksville, two at the towers and one at the Pentagon.

If you want to debate wether we saw what we saw or not, you picked a ignorant point of view to argue from. I got your source of Chronology that states dates and contradicts your Wiki google and the irrelevant details omitted on the WPAFB site. The site promotes its involvement, but doesn't specify to what degree or when. The dates listed are even misleading. Even the Chronolgy link posted above is probably not telling the whole story. It appears to be stating landmark achievements for the program itself accomplished by a single plane on a given day. My guess is that those planes were there that week for live fire testing. Why would you only perform live fire wing tests on a single plane?

Like I told "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE" up there, Wright Patterson is the Central Maintenance and logistics hub for the entire US Air Force. It is the most famous base in the United states and there are things happening there that I cannot even tell you about without getting people in trouble. SO, Who am I or you or anyone else to say what, when, who, where, or HOW MANY they got. What is reported and what is factual is proven here in contradiction already, so, why doubt me? I'm not a drunk, I don't smoke dope, and I got no reason to lie about any of this.
I'm not even asking you to take my word for it. I'm asking a question: WHY SCRAMBLE INTERCEPTORS IF YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO SHOOT DOWN A NON-COMPLIANT AIRLINER??? The protocol and standing orders for this already existed then and is still in effect at this very minute.



Wow...it's 9:11 am on 9/11....

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: Warnings – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 9/11/2009 by semperfortis]

The personal attacks will stop now or someone may lose Posting Privileges

Thank you

Semper

reply to post by RocketScientist


You don't even know how to interpret your own link!

Your link verifies that there were only 7 possibly 8 Raptors produced by Sep 2001. Only aircraft # 4001 (1 aircraft) conducted the live firing tests you refer to. So there could have possibly been 1 Raptor at W-P on 9/11/2001, maximum.

The aircraft were not operational until 2005, so your statements are an unmitigated falsehood proven by your own link!

W-P is a Systems Command base and is mostly involved in R & D, not maintence.

The remainder of my refutation of your blantly false statements do not need further elaboration as they are correct.

You need to stick to roofing issues on a building maintence Forum not 9/11 issues here. However, with your potty mouth I doubt you'll last anywhere long to include here. BYE

Originally posted by RocketScientist
Raptors were not the ONLY thing in the air that day when everything was supposed to be GROUNDED. There was a interceptor over the white house and one over Shanksville, two at the towers and one at the Pentagon.

First of all, the grounding order DOES NOT APPLY to military aircraft in defense of the country. The ONLY aircraft that were grounded by the grounding order were civilian and non-essential military aircraft.

Secondly, by 9/11 there were a total of ZERO military standard F-22s in the air, and (according to your timeline) there were SIX in flight testing. Going by YOUR LINK, on 9/11 they were:

4001- Live fire testing at Wright Patterson
4002- Edwards AFB doing weapons bay testing, and other flight tests
4003- Edwards AFB doing Mach testing
4004- Edwards AFB doing avionics testing
4005- Edwards AFB
4006- Edwards AFB

So that shows that there is ONE aircraft at Wright Pat on 9/11 doing live fire testing. The first production aircraft was 4010, and wasn't flown until Oct 12, 2002.

Regardless of whether there were 1 or 12 aircraft at Wright Patterson on that day, PROTOTYPE AIRCRAFT ARE NOT USED ON REAL MISSIONS the way you described. According to YOUR timeline, the first guided AMRAAM launch wasn't until ten days AFTER 9/11. What would be the point of sending aircraft that had only launched a handful of missiles, and hadn't even used a radar guided missile yet, to defend the US airspace?

[edit on 9/15/2009 by Zaphod58]

I dunno what your problem is with the F22, (or me for that matter) but, I tell you what we saw and you tell me "no such place". I give you a link (showing you you are wrong about that too) and you say it aint there, I show you it was there and you tell me it was only one plane...

...so it bugs me the data isnt telling the whole story. I wasn't trying to get into a debate on when the F22 got sent where, or how many. But, since you question it, and the data is misleading, I went digging....

I asked a friend of mine at the base. (Even called up a couple buddies that were working that day - long distance, so, thanks for the bill) and reaffirmed they saw same thing and they are sure it was F22's also, so, I ask a guy who is still at the base and he says for me to go here->

www.f22fighter.com...

...supposedly one of the last websites to still hold any relevant data on the program.

You say the planes weren't even tested with radar guided missiles yet (SCROLL DOWN TO 1990) 11 years before 9/11 those planes were flown, tested, and proven. WITH MISSILES. 13 planes in existence and operational delivered by 2002.

I'm also informed that the designation of military deployment has nothing to do with how many there are, where they are, or who's flying them. You guys are looking at when the government recorded (or admits) they entered military service. What I gotta do, go get you the wingnut that was flying the plane to take a lie detector test?
I'm done arguing with you about the planes. Your argument is based on spoon fed junk you got off the internet (or what you can still find) How are you ever going to debunk a government conspiracy by ignoring first hand accounts of things that happened that day?

I asked a valid question. The response I get is a kanipshun fit about F22's and how I'm a liar and there's no such thing as F22's on 9/11. You now have two links proving that wrong. Sorry fellas, but, while I'm roofing, I dont normally take a camera with me and as for "sticking to roofing", haha, its a safer place to be than a jetliner on 9/11.

If you are not intending to shoot down a jetliner, why scramble fighter jets?

I also noticed, reading back thru some of this stuff here on this thread that somebody mentioned a c130, a white unmarked jet, and I've heard other accounts of fighters being seen over New York that day, so, who said anything about planes being grounded applying to military aircraft? What I said was "F22's were not the only planes in the air that day when everything was supposed to be grounded". I don't make the rules babe, I just drive the nails.

as for the forum mods, wanting to axe my post... I see its forum policy to pick sides. Quite okay to flame me, but, when you get it back, I get the axe. nice job fellas. Last post I'm going to bother with here. Your forum credibility just dropped to "less than classified"

F22's are stand off fighters and by 9/11 in 2001 they were definitely looking for a chance to demonstrate that capability. Makes me wonder about 93. Nobody saw the shot. Just a thought.

and for the guy that claims NORAD had no orders to stand down, Norad was under Cheney and was in fact ordered to stand down.

www.metacafe.com...

...but, I'm not the only "roofer" that knows this either... Funny thing about us "roofers"... we spend alot of time looking at airplanes, helicopters, birds, and an occasional bumblebee.

F22's at Wright Pat in 2001 was a common sight. Don't know where you folks are from, but, the net is not your "end all be all" of sources. People are. Everything is watched right now by DHS and the entire country is on edge.

They are putting us on a war footing like they did in WW1 and 2. Why do you think all the buyouts? Better wake up guys. Its not a "Conspiracy theory" anymore. This is Risk "The Real Version". Welcome to WW3

reply to post by RocketScientist


Again, according to YOUR LINK, they were BEGINING to build 10 airframes in 2001. There were 13 delivered in 2002. As for testing AMRAAMs in the 1990s, a launch demonstration is not the same as guiding the missile all the way to the target.

You have no idea where I got all my information from, or who I got it from, but if I email the PAO office at Wright-Pat then they're going to reply that they had several dozen F-22s at the base on 9/11 and they flew right? Or are they going to lie to me about it?

Dude, just exactly what "IS" your major problem? You keep insisting they weren't there and the link DOES NOT say they were "just beginning" anything in 2001. By 2001 they already had 8 planes from 2000.
It Reads Lot 1 - 2Pcs(2 planes duhh) delivered by 1999 and lot 2 (making a total of 8 planes - double duhhh) delivered by 2000 ...you are denying the information in front of your face. Next you are going to try to tell me that EMD is the engine making department or some crap (because you have no clue what you are talking about) and they are talking about "lots" of engines right? WRONG, so don't even try it:

and I QUOTE:

Change the baseline LRIP production ramp, which would have consisted of four lots of 4, 12, 24, 36 F-22s (76 aircraft). The JET recommendation is a LRIP ramp of 2, 6, 12, 20, 30 (70 aircraft) in 5 lots.

and before you try any other slippery denial tactics: EMD is Engineering & Manufacturing Development, not "Engine making department". You are absolutely "correct", I do NOT know where you are getting your info from. I "DO" know where you "AINT" getting it from.

You are one SERIOUSLY paranoid dude. Why would the military ever LIE TO YOU? OMG!!! Military deception and misrepresentation would NEVER happen. Nah.. No chance. And certainly, if it ever DID happen, we'd clear it all up on a phone call with you.

Here's a PERFECT site for you.... (you will notice the whole YEAR of 2001 missing from this one) www.globalsecurity.org... ...rather "odd" dont you think? ...and it aint the only site I find with missing data or contradictory timelines.

...but of course I'm fabricating it all and placing false time stamp info on sites all over the web just to make sure you look like an ass for being wrong. Dude, do you really think the Public Affairs Office at Wright-Pat would give you anything other than the data you can get off their "official" Air Force website? If you want a tour of the Museum, sure, call the PAO and they'll get you a scheduled tour, maybe even tickets to Kings Island. If you want official government BS, ask them how many half breed Cherokee Brigadier Generals there were on the base from 1966 to 1978. And if they tell you 1. Then you might be talking to somebody who can set you straight. ...Better yet, ask them if OPSEC violations apply to the PAO at all. If not, then they might tell you force strength or even explain the whole lazer program to you. DUHHHH I bought a $10,000 claw hammer for these fools, but, ya know what? My radioactive carcass doesn't glo in the dark!

I'm done arguing with you dude. I could give you three phone numbers right now that would confirm what we all saw that morning. I'm obviously not going to do that. You wouldn't believe them anyway. SO, again, you sidestep the question and try to derail the thread with this tirade about F22's. The question was: If you don't intend to shoot down non-compliant airliners, why scramble fighters? F22's were not the only thing in the air that day.

I have seen some very compelling evidence suggesting that our government has been severely corrupted. If I were "PARANOID", I would think the objective now is not to panic the people, by dismissing the evidence as crack pot rhetoric. ...or would that qualify as "logic"? I'm confused. I thought we were looking for "smoking guns" here.

Has anybody bothered to check the weight capabilities on a 767 to find out just how much Thermite could be carried on one of those birds and if it would be enough to melt fourty seven 36" steel (concrete bedded) I beams?

Has anybody bothered to check maintenance or tax records on the buildings that might indicate who had access to plant enough Thermite to pull down three buildings identically the same way?

Has anybody bothered to collect (eyewitness) data on planes in the air that day to refute the notion there was a stand down ordered?

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by RocketScientist

 

As for testing AMRAAMs in the 1990s, a launch demonstration is not the same as guiding the missile all the way to the target.

Why are you suggesting that I need to prove to you that AMRAAM's recorded as a "launch demonstration" impacted a target? You said the non-existent prototypes don't carry rockets. Stats say otherwise.
Would you PLEASE at least use something that MAKES SENSE if you are going to dispute every stat posted that you said didn't exist? You are intentionally trying to get this thread closed? Why? Stats done proved everything you dispute. Even dug up some new leads.... so, what's your beef? You one of the passengers from flight 93? Witness protection program? Misinformation specialist? Your repeated attacks on everything I posted is obvious and suspicious. Aside from derailing the thread, was there anything else on your agenda? ...Like dismissing the FACT that we saw 4 sets of F22's leave Wright Patterson AFB on 9/11 ???

Can I suggest that your source of information (TV?) might not be telling you the whole story? Have I not posted enough links to point out that there is a dated record with a 2002 time stamp stating these planes were not only in existence, they were being flown all over the country and testing everything from flight capability to weapons and the official "NEW"releases of those timelines are in dispute with older records??? If you cant acknowledge the obvious, bro, I'm done trying to play "slinky" here ok.

My contribution to this thread has enlightened me to several FACTS:

1. ATS seems to be more interested in supporting the boards assassins than moderating content.
2. The official timeline data on F22's is being subverted for some reason. (Could be OPSEC but, because of what we saw, I suspect its related to denying they were capable of playing any role whatsoever in 9/11)
3. The strategy is working on at least 2 persons at ATS
and ...
4. This is the wrong forum to be trying to figure out what happened to 11, 77, 93, or 175. 2,995 people were murdered. It is sad that people do not take this serious enough not to flame, dismiss, or denigrate anyone coming forward with information. Instead, we go way beyond demands for proof or hard evidence and make it even more ridiculous to think anyone even SHOULD come forward. Considering what (I am now certain) those people might know, THEY SHOULD BE AFRAID!

Nevermind. Just ain't worth it anymore.

[edit on 10/13/2009 by Zaphod58]

reply to post by Reheat



[edit on 13-10-2009 by impressme]

Great thread! S & F to you. One of the best I have reado so far on flight 93 and its shooting down.

Here's my little contribution to this "theory"...on 911 I was at work, listening to TSHTF on the radio and one of my co-workers calls (or got called by, can't remember which) his son-in-law who works at the DOD. We're all listing to one side of the call (lots of "uh-huhs" and "OKs") and after he hangs-ups he tells us "We just shot down a plane in PA...but we'll never hear about it". This was some time before the reported "crash".

Take it for what it's worth.

reply to post by jayt71


IF it "happened" (the 'shoot-down') well before the actual crash time (of about 1006 EDT)...then it was merely one of the many FALSE and preliminary 'reports' that were flying around... it happened a lot, in the confusion...especially AFTER American 77 hit the Pentagon, and the decision TO shoot down, when encountered, was made.

HOWEVER...United 93 was still a good 20-25 minutes away from the D.C. area, when it was over Pennsylvania. AND there was still a lot of open terrain between there, and here (DC) so there was plenty of time for fighters, once they had intercepted, to close up on and assess....they are trained to do that, you know...actually move in, in formaiton, and LOOK in the windows, especially the cockpit. They aren't under such enormous time pressure, at that point in PA, to just shoot a civilian airliner without some "look see".

AND there would have been civilian ATC communications regarding this...likely on a UHF frequency...because at that time the military did not yet have full control of all the airspace in the country.

reply to post by Valhall


To Valhall,
#-1, I am sure that you have seen the video posted on this website wherein Rumsfeld slipped and said that flight 93 was shot down.

#-2, I work part time so I was home that day during the 911-attack. My wife had jury duty so she left for the county court house. She woke me up before she left and said that a plane just flew into one of the twin towers at the World Trade center in Manhatten. I immediately got out of bed and started watching the whole surreal event that was unfolding before my eyes.

I remember I was listen to one of the newscasters, I do not remember which channel or station..............A lady called the newscaster on the phone and told him "on the air" so I could hear it, that she just received a call from her son who was on United flt. 93. The son just told his mother that the plane was hijacked and several guys were armed with knives and box cutters. The guys mother was telling the newscaster repeating what her son was saying to her as it was happening then she said, my son and some of the other guys are going to jump the guys that are armed and try and take the plane back. The newscaster made some kind of comment to her and she interrupted him and said, oh my God, my son said something just hit the wing of the plane, he said (her son) that the planes wing was on fire...................The call ended and the newscaster said something to the effect, well lets hope they all make it.

I sat there watching TV and I could not swear to when it happend but I watched the second plane fly into the other World trade center tower.
I cannot explain how I felt, something between fear-the fight or flight kind of fear and an overwhelming sadness and realization that our country was under attack. I kept wondering why our air national guard was not up there shooting theses hi-jacked planes down before they arrived at there assigned target.

Final Observation: United Flight 93 was deffinitely shot down.

Why is it being covered up-two main reasons are;
1- People would stop flying and this would ruin the airline industry if passengers new that they were readily expendable.

2- People would be less likely to take action against the terrorist who are on board taking over the plane, they would be more concerned for their own safety. The movie about this event was pure fantasy..............KMG

"IF it "happened" (the 'shoot-down') well before the actual crash time (of about 1006 EDT)...then it was merely one of the many FALSE and preliminary 'reports' that were flying around... it happened a lot, in the confusion...especially AFTER American 77 hit the Pentagon, and the decision TO shoot down, when encountered, was made."

Yep, everything that does not square with the official story is attributed to the confusion of the day. Fighter jets are not scrambled in time because people who are highly trained not to get confused, become confused. Numerous witnesses hear ground explosions at the WTC, but they were just confused and disoriented. Twin Towers collapse for inexplicable reasons, however, those questioning it are confused by their common sense. A huge commercial airliner squeezes into a tiny hole into the Pentagon leaving little physical evidence and people are just confused about crash dynamics. No physical evidence of large airliner at Shanksville, but people are confused about how the ground can easily swallow up an entire section of a plane. BBC reports WTC Building 7 collapsing 30 minutes in advance and the media was confused by reporting it. Yeah, we get the drill.

"HOWEVER...United 93 was still a good 20-25 minutes away from the D.C. area, when it was over Pennsylvania. AND there was still a lot of open terrain between there, and here (DC) so there was plenty of time for fighters, once they had intercepted, to close up on and assess....they are trained to do that, you know...actually move in, in formaiton, and LOOK in the windows, especially the cockpit. They aren't under such enormous time pressure, at that point in PA, to just shoot a civilian airliner without some "look see"."

Why would the military blindly assume that the hijackers' target for United 93 was the Washington, DC area? Why take that risk and not eliminate the target while it was still flying over a rural area, as it was heading east/southeast and approaching more heavily populated areas? The Air Force was batting .000 on the day (zero for three), so time was definitely not on their side.

Whether or not Flight 93 was shot down or even existed, has yet to be proven either way, since the Official Investigation did absolutely nothing to adequately explain the numerous confusing events of that day. In fact, it just added to the confusion. But then again, what do you expect from a group of people who encourage and reward incompetence so they could have a convenient built-in excuse to carry out their criminal activity?

S & F

Flight 93 needs more investigation in order to see what happened. One does not need to be anything but awake to see that this incident of 911 did not happen the way they said it did.



Flight 93 shot down