Lasers in Atlantis

From the first page of the aforementioned article...

When the first atomic bomb exploded in New Mexico, the desert sand turned to fused green glass. This fact, according to the magazine Free World, has given certain archaeologists a turn.

IMO, smelting is a possibility for vitrified sand but not a probability. I don't think that lightning is even a factor in this.

However, the physical evidence is only part of the equation.

Fused green glass uncovered in archeological digs plus ancient texts in India both point to weapons of mass destruction being used thousands of years ago

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
From the first page of the aforementioned article...

When the first atomic bomb exploded in New Mexico, the desert sand turned to fused green glass. This fact, according to the magazine Free World, has given certain archaeologists a turn.

IMO, smelting is a possibility for vitrified sand but not a probability. I don't think that lightning is even a factor in this.

However, the physical evidence is only part of the equation.

Fused green glass uncovered in archeological digs plus ancient texts in India both point to weapons of mass destruction being used thousands of years ago

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Paul_Richard]

I submit that neither "points to weapons of mass destruction being used thousands of years ago..."
What part of

And, since its shape points to an origin of extraterrestrial impact, it will likely prove to be the event responsible for the extensive field of “Desert Glass” – yellow-green silica glass fragments found on the desert surface between the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea in southwestern Egypt.

did you not get? Who said anything about lightning. They've found the crater that Childress claims doesn't exist!

And, every quote from that article I pasted into my last post came from that first page.

Plus, where are these pre-Platonic references to the continent of Atlantis that you claim exist?

Harte

[edit on 3/23/2006 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte

I submit that neither "points to weapons of mass destruction being used thousands of years ago..."

Then you are simply choosing to ignore the evidence and are simply furthering a stance based on prejudice

And, since its shape points to an origin of extraterrestrial impact, it will likely prove to be the event responsible for the extensive field of “Desert Glass” – yellow-green silica glass fragments found on the desert surface between the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea in southwestern Egypt.

Originally posted by Harte
Who said anything about lightning?

Another member of the forum mentioned it in a recent post.

Originally posted by Harte
Plus, where are these pre-Platonic references to the continent of Atlantis that you claim exist?

Once again...

From Part 2 of the above article...

...the ancient Indian epics describe a series of horrific wars--wars which could have been fought between ancient India and Atlantis, or perhaps a third party in the Gobi region of western China. The Mahabharata and the Drona Parva speak of the war and of the weapons used: great fireballs that could destroy a whole city; "Kapila's Glance", which could burn 50,000 men to ashes in seconds; and flying spears that could ruin whole "cities full of forts".

The Rama Empire, described in the Mahabharata and Ramayana, was supposedly contemporaneous with the great cultures of Atlantis and Osiris in the West.

Atlantis, well known from Plato's writings and ancient Egyptian records, apparently existed in the mid-Atlantic and was a highly technological and patriarchal civilisation.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Harte

I submit that neither "points to weapons of mass destruction being used thousands of years ago..."

Then you are simply choosing to ignore the evidence and are simply furthering a stance based on prejudice

I have no prejudice here. It is you that are making claims based on what some new age author is saying. There just is no evidence of any ancient weapons of mass destruction. If you know of any, why don't you provide it here? Quoting Childress' opinion means nothing. Surely you must see this!

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

And, since its shape points to an origin of extraterrestrial impact, it will likely prove to be the event responsible for the extensive field of “Desert Glass” – yellow-green silica glass fragments found on the desert surface between the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea in southwestern Egypt.

Originally posted by Harte
Who said anything about lightning?

Another member of the forum mentioned it in a recent post.

Originally posted by Harte
Plus, where are these pre-Platonic references to the continent of Atlantis that you claim exist?

Once again...

From Part 2 of the above article...

...the ancient Indian epics describe a series of horrific wars--wars which could have been fought between ancient India and Atlantis, or perhaps a third party in the Gobi region of western China. The Mahabharata and the Drona Parva speak of the war and of the weapons used: great fireballs that could destroy a whole city; "Kapila's Glance", which could burn 50,000 men to ashes in seconds; and flying spears that could ruin whole "cities full of forts".

The Rama Empire, described in the Mahabharata and Ramayana, was supposedly contemporaneous with the great cultures of Atlantis and Osiris in the West.

Atlantis, well known from Plato's writings and ancient Egyptian records, apparently existed in the mid-Atlantic and was a highly technological and patriarchal civilisation.

You are claiming that David Hatcher Childress predates Plato when you make these ridiculous statements. And you call me prejudiced?

You refuse to even research what Childress is saying. If you did, you certainly wouldn't have quoted what you did about "...ancient Egyptian records..." No "ancient Egyptian records" mention anything even remotely resembling Atlantis. It's pretty obvious who holds the prejudiced view here.

Let me ask you this, are you a Mormon? If not, why not?

Are you a scientologist? If not, why not?

Do you believe that David Koresh was the second coming of Jesus Christ? If not, why not?

There is precisely as much "evidence" for these beliefs as there is for Childress' statements you are so fond of quoting.

Please provide some reference to any pre-Platonic mention of the continent, or city, of Atlantis, if you can. (I know for a fact that you cannot, by the way, because there is none.)

Harte

I'm curious, do these epics still exist, or is there a copy of them that may have been made to preserve the story?


Also, something I've seen used in defense of this idea is the following story thing.

...a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion
with its billowing smoke clouds...
...the cloud of smoke
rising after its first explosion
formed into expanding round circles
like the opening of giant parasols...
..it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.
...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognisable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.
After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected...
...to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment.

I think I've heard someone say that this story was fake, but I don't know, fake or not it's still interesting to read.


Also Paul, I was just saying that it's less likely that anyone was using anti-matter warheads back in the day, nuclear, well it's not impossible.
Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

As for this green desert glass, I've heard a theory that states that the ancient people may have discovered "Brown's gas" which is some weird state of hydrogen that science can't quite explain yet, anyways aparently this stuff when it interacts with certain elements will have an effect on the element as if you heated it up millions of degrees.

Originally posted by Harte

You refuse to even research what Childress is saying. If you did, you certainly wouldn't have quoted what you did about "...ancient Egyptian records..." No "ancient Egyptian records" mention anything even remotely resembling Atlantis.

Are we to understand that you are more an expert on Egyptian records than Childress?



Where are your articles?

Where are your books?

What are your credentials?

If any.

Nope...he obviously has much more credibility and has done much more research into this and related fields of study than you have.



DENY IGNORANCE.

Originally posted by iori_komei
I'm curious, do these epics still exist, or is there a copy of them that may have been made to preserve the story?

Many of these ancient Vedic texts do indeed exist. The one that Paul's reference mentions, the Mahabarata, can be found here:
The Mahabarata

Originally posted by iori_komeiI think I've heard someone say that this story was fake, but I don't know, fake or not it's still interesting to read.

Your quote, which is supposedly from the Mahabarata, may not be found there, I don't know. The Mahabarata is a very long, dull and boring text, and I have not read all of it. But I believe it was Byrd that said here at this forum that the part you quoted in your post actually is not in the Mahabarata. Byrd is one sharp cookie, and I'll definitely take her word over Childress, anyday!

Originally posted by iori_komeiAs for this green desert glass, I've heard a theory that states that the ancient people may have discovered "Brown's gas" which is some weird state of hydrogen that science can't quite explain yet, anyways aparently this stuff when it interacts with certain elements will have an effect on the element as if you heated it up millions of degrees.

No need for this mythological discovery of "Brown's Gas" to explain the desert glass. It's been explained. See my previous post with link to this information. Or you could just click HERE. We should move on to the next piece of (non) evidence.

I suggest you google Brown's Gas to see that science certainly has "explained" it.

Harte

Originally posted by iori_komei
I'm curious, do these epics still exist, or is there a copy of them that may have been made to preserve the story?

I've found some passages through a Net search.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Also Paul, I was just saying that it's less likely that anyone was using anti-matter warheads back in the day, nuclear, well it's not impossible.
Not trying to pick a fight or anything.

Not at all. Just discussing.

Originally posted by iori_komei
As for this green desert glass, I've heard a theory that states that the ancient people may have discovered "Brown's gas" which is some weird state of hydrogen that science can't quite explain yet, anyways aparently this stuff when it interacts with certain elements will have an effect on the element as if you heated it up millions of degrees.

Interesting.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Harte

You refuse to even research what Childress is saying. If you did, you certainly wouldn't have quoted what you did about "...ancient Egyptian records..." No "ancient Egyptian records" mention anything even remotely resembling Atlantis.

Are we to understand that you are more an expert on Egyptian records than Childress?

Where are your articles?

Where are your books?

What are your credentials?

If any.

Nope...he obviously has much more credibility and has done much more research into this and related fields of study than you have.

DENY IGNORANCE.

Childress suffers from a complete lack of credibility. Childress is absolutely innocent of credibility. The only thing Childress has ever researched is methods for removing money from the pockets of the likes of you. I'm aware how difficult it is to admit that you've been had.

Hmmm. You believe Childress because he's written some books? I wonder what Dr Seuss has to say about Atlantis?

Apparently you are so taken with Childress that you find distasteful the mere idea of questioning anything he says.

Where are Childress' credentials? If he is so sure that the Egyptians mention Atlantis somewhere in their records, why doesn't he tell us where? Because they don't, that's why. Of course, you don't have to believe me. Look into it yourself, or remain ignorant, whatever.

It's "DENY IGNORANCE," not "PROMOTE IGNORANCE."

Harte

[edit on 3/23/2006 by Harte]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Harte

You refuse to even research what Childress is saying. If you did, you certainly wouldn't have quoted what you did about "...ancient Egyptian records..." No "ancient Egyptian records" mention anything even remotely resembling Atlantis.

Are we to understand that you are more an expert on Egyptian records than Childress?

Here you go, Paul. I've done a very small amount of the work you should have already done and come up with a few others that you can dismiss as not having the great stature of the mighty Childress:

The only original reference we have to the name "Atlantis" comes from Plato, who wrote about it in two of his dialogues. Timaeus has only a very brief mention, but there is a long description in Critias, reproduced here with comments.

Source: www.mmtaylor.net...

The only ancient source for the story of Atlantis are two dialogues by Plato, the Timaeus and the Critias.

Source: www.skepticwiki.org...

It is therefore possible that Solon (or perhaps Plato himself) learned the date of the Atlantis cataclysm from the Egyptian priests at the town of Sais...
In fact, everything we know about ancient Egypt argues against the possibility. Archaeologists have found no evidence at all for a calendar of this ilk. Nor is there any such evidence in the Egyptian texts, which generally refer to ancient events in the vaguest of terms.

Source: www.eridu.co.uk...

The Lost Continent of Atlantis
Plato gave the world the oldest remaining written account of Atlantis, in Critias, recorded circa 370 BC.

My emphasis. Source:www.angelfire.com...

For some very sound info on Atlantis, and where the idea came from:
plato-dialogues.org...
and
www.csicop.org...

You can brush these off as well, if you decide to remain ignorant. But if you read them, you'll see that some of these sites are actually pro-Atlantis' existence, so what would be their motive for making the claim that there are no Egyptian records of Atlantis?

Harte

Originally posted by iori_komei
I'm curious, do these epics still exist, or is there a copy of them that may have been made to preserve the story?

The epics exist, and I've actually taken the trouble to read them (they're the Hindu equivalent of the Bible.)

HOWEVER... the "glance" doesn't mean a weapon, it talks about the person's eyes (analagous to the "evil eye"; the gaze of an angry god that can destroy things.)

...a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...
a perpendicular explosion

Doesn't exist in the scriptures. I checked several translations.

The green glass is tektite, and it's certainly found in green varieties around the world. It's associated with volcanos and meteorites:
tektitesource.com...

There's no evidence it was generated by ANY atomic warfare -- you see, the glass is NOT radioactive. If it had been formed thousands or millions of years ago, it would still be radioactive.

In fact, there's a recently discovered very ancient meteorite crater in that area: www.planetary.org...

As for this green desert glass, I've heard a theory that states that the ancient people may have discovered "Brown's gas" which is some weird state of hydrogen that science can't quite explain yet, anyways aparently this stuff when it interacts with certain elements will have an effect on the element as if you heated it up millions of degrees.

"Brown's gas" is a simple mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen burns at a temperature of around 1100 degrees Farenheit, and no, there's no elements that "burn" or "heat" to millions of degrees (even plasma doesn't get that hot)
www.hydrogenappliances.com...

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Byrd]

Harte,

Still waiting for you to list your credentials...if any.

Then we can compare them to other authors.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Harte,

Still waiting for you to list your credentials...if any.

Then we can compare them to other authors.

Actually, Harte isn't an author, but Harte IS citing other authors. So asking for credentials here isn't going to tell you whether something is true or not. Look at the links and you can see the original authors.

For the record, Harte's correct -- there really aren't any references to Atlantis anywhere in Egypt. There's no records of shipments from Atlantis, there are no treaties or letters to Atlantean rulers (although there are lots of letters to and from other kings of the Mediterranean area). There's no "unaccounted for culture" in the trade goods and records.

Nor is there any written material from Sumeria/Babylon/Hyksos -- OR Greece.

It's the lack of material from Greece that's particularly important.

Take Troy, for instance. Troy was a famous city that was thought to be mythical. In addition to Homer's lengthy accounts (Illiad and Odyssey), there are also dozens of plays about Troy mentioned by ancient Greeks (many prizes won for dramas about this city) as well as surviving plays about it. There were inscriptions and there was art that referred to it in Greece. Metaphors about Troy exist in song and images of that war were painted on vases.

We know now that it was a real place.

Atlantis, though -- there's nothing in Greece about it. No plays, no odes, no poems, no artwork, no black figured vases depicting it or its heroes.

And that's just impossible if it was a real civilization. You can find references to minor towns, minor gods, local grape festivals and so on and so forth in the art and poetry and plays of the time.

Atlantis, if it existed, would have been THE major thematic story for Greece. It played to the things that the Greeks loved: the element of hubris (pride), the brave Athenians (always a popular theme) marching in with their bronze swords to defeat the Evil Atlanteans and so on and so forth.

And there isn't a single play or any mention of a play or heroes (there would have been great heroes such as Achilles who would have been mentioned on the Athenian side) or any song or any tragic kings or slaughtered warriors anywhere. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zip.

After Plato, the issue dies pretty much until Madame Blatavisky and the mediums revive it in the late 1800's and then Edgar Cayce takes it over with his "channelings."

The stuff that they come up with is, by the way, purely American in culture and flavor. I've read a lot of it (I was a believer until a skeptic prodded me to quit reading and do a little research) and it is a 20th century fantasy of a golden age of pre-Greece. The imagined Atlantis had all the "evils" that plagued the America of that time -- and everybody had the same American morality (rather than the ideals and morals of the Greeks (or the rest of the world) of 2000 BC and earlier.)

So... there isn't any evidence. Truly. You can go (as I once did) and set aside the channeled 20th century writings and start looking for earlier (authentic) writings.

You can, if you like, learn to read hieroglyphics as I have done and start reading all the Egyptian tomb walls and ostrika for yourself. And in all the piles of evidence you will find a lot of things.

But you won't find any evidence that mentions "Atlantis."

I know, this will have nothing to do with the topic, but I gotta say it.


WOW! Byrd, you can read hyroglphys?!

Thats impressive, and pretty d*mn*d cool.



Anyways, yeah this is off topic, so I'll be quiet now.

Lol, good work Bryd and Harte. There is absolutely no evidence that Atlantis ever existed, whether actual or even circumstancial, although I have heard a theory that Atlantis is Troy, which might explain why Plato stopped his account and left it half-finished when he realised the connection. Just a theory.
Good luck trying to get through to those people on this thread that seem to believe otherwise.

It is important to think outside the box and not just take Plato’s account of Atlantis as the only one of merit. Historians who elevate Plato as the end-all authority on Atlantis have not investigated the ancient texts of India, which are older and more accurate because they explain direct relations with ancient cultures, not just hearsay about them told in oral tradition centuries later.

Plato’s account of Atlantis was not through Greek relations with that civilization, but from the tale of Solon, a Greek ruler who visited Egypt

From The Lost Continent of Atlantis:

In a sense, Atlantis actually existed, and was indeed destroyed by the sea in a cataclysmic event, very plausibly lasting a day and a night. Plato's account was wrong in several essential ways, but was derived from correct, if garbled, historical accounts. Plato's writings embodied the now lost words of Solon, a Greek ruler who visited Egypt circa 590 BC. Plato's account of Atlantis was thus a retelling of the story of Solon, who in turn told the stories that he had heard during his trip to Egypt.

The following is an excerpt from this Thoth newsletter:

Ancient City Found In India Irradiated By Nuclear Blast 8,000
Years Ago

Radiation still so intense, the area is highly dangerous

A heavy layer of radioactive ash in Rajasthan, India, covers a
three-square mile area, ten miles west of Jodhpur. Scientists are
investigating the site, where a housing development was being
built.

Scientists have unearthed an ancient city where evidence
shows an atomic blast dating back thousands of years, from 8,000
to 12,000 years, destroyed most of the buildings and probably a
half-million people. One researcher estimates that the nuclear
bomb used was about the size of the ones dropped on Japan in 1945.

MYTH REFERENCE FROM ARTICLE:

An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of
the Mahabharata. The passage tells of combat where explosions of
final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors
with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if
they were dry leaves of trees,' says [researcher] Ganguli.

DWARDU CARDONA COMMENTS:

For all it's worth:

The descriptions of the holocaust from the DRONA PARVA section of
the MAHABHARATA as relayed by this Kroniatalk person are entirely
correct - by which I mean that these descriptions ARE contained in
the DRONA PARVA.

However, it should be kept in mind that deities (and planetary
ones at that) also took part in this warfare in which the "Triple
City" was destroyed.

Even so, as I had long ago realized, the descriptions of this
battle, and especially its aftermath, read very much like a modern
atomic confrontation. Personally, I do not believe that atomic
weapons were known during the time of the Bharata War, but this
has always left another door open - which raises the question:
Could the planetary thunderbolts (the weapons of the Bharata War)
which brought the Saturnian configuration to an end have been
imbued with nuclear energy? I'm sure Thornhill will be against
this notion and, not to be misunderstood, I am only posing the
question. But one thing HAS to be kept in mind: As already stated,
and I could supply more quotes, the descriptions in the DRONA
PARVA are identical to descriptions that came out of the Hiroshima
bombing and, in fact, I have compared the DRONA PARVA battle, item
by item, with the Hiroshima event. These events match.

As for the reported discoveries of sites in India which bear
radioactive strata, I had never before now read anything of the
sort and, as far as I know, nothing of the sort has made it into
the type of news-literature I usually peruse.



[edit on 24-3-2006 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
It is important to think outside the box and not just take Plato’s account of Atlantis as the only one of merit. Historians who elevate Plato as the end-all authority on Atlantis have not investigated the ancient texts of India, which are older and more accurate because they explain direct relations with ancient cultures, not just hearsay about them told in oral tradition centuries later.

Paul,
Yes, the Vedic texts contain some fascinating accounts. So does "Dianetics" (though you have to pay a great deal more than the price of the book to get to the really fascinating parts of Scientology), and so does the Book of Mormon. That is why I asked you before if you were a Mormon or a Scientologist. If you are willing to take the Vedic texts at face value, then are you a Hindu? If you are not, then why not? Are you cherry picking what the Vedas say, only believing the parts you want to believe, and disregarding the rest?

Originally posted by Paul_RichardPlato’s account of Atlantis was not through Greek relations with that civilization, but from the tale of Solon, a Greek ruler who visited Egypt

From The Lost Continent of Atlantis:

I'm glad you included that quote and link Paul, so that you can see the limitations of that source as a reference for Atlantis. That is to say, perhaps you should find out who Solon actually was before you continue pontificating on Plato's source for his Atlantean allegory.
Do yourself a favor and discover some history - particularly about Solon. I hate to use that link because Wikipedia is notorious for bias that comes from it's contributors, but it's short and simple, if somewhat wrong in a few particulars.

So maybe read what another ancient writer (Plutarch) said of Solon.

In regards to the Atlantis story, Solon is part of this story only as a poet. His term (cut short) as Archon of Attica (or "Greek Ruler" - there was no overall Greek ruler at the time,) has no bearing on it at all.

Also, from what your reference said (I quoted it above) about how "Plato’s account of Atlantis was not through Greek relations with that civilization," it is apparent to me that (assuming that you believe this) you aren't actually aware of what Plato actually has to say about Atlantis. I say this because the entire point of Plato's story was focused on the relationship between Athens (albeit "ancient Athens") and Atlantis. It was not an Egyptian story per se, it was an Egyptian telling a Greek story to a Greek guy, and ribbing him about the fact that the Greeks no longer remembered when it happened, or that they had once been the Great Heores of the Mediterreanean.

It also must be said here that the time the Egyptian claimed had passed since that bygone era showed that the Egyptian (had he ever actually existed, which he did not) didn't know at all what he was talking about, since there was no Egypt, nor was there an Athens during the time period he described.

If you don't have them, here are the only two ancient Atlantean references: The Critias
The Timaeus.

In these you can find where Solon comes into the story. You can also see that it is a story of warfare between two Bronze Age cultures, and that it is set in the Stone Age(?)

Also, I wish you'd go to the link I provided previously:
www.csicop.org...

That guy goes rather deeply into the setting that Critias lays out in telling his story.

I should say that it is possible that there were some civilizations around somewhere back in a time we know little about - not very likely at all, but not impossible. However, Plato made up Atlantis, there's just no two ways about that. The Vedas mention a lot of things, but they don't correlate at all with Plato's tale, timewise or otherwise. Plato fabricated his tale, possibly borrowing from some folklore he'd heard, not likely, but possible. But that does not bring Atlantis itself any closer to reality - it's still just a fabrication.

Harte

Harte,

ALL historical record and ancient texts need to be examined, not just those we want to look at due to our current perspective.

That is, if we want to move beyond mediocrity in historical analysis.

One does not have to be a Hindu in order to investigate ancient Hindu texts which point to actual events, just as one does not have to be a Christian in order to investigate biblical accounts.

I am neither.

If I told you that in a remote Highland glen there's the remains of an ancient pre-celtic city and that radiation levels there are so high that no-one is allowed with 5 miles of it, woiuld you believe me?

Because there as much evidence for that city as there is for a radioactive Indian city

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Harte,

...One does not have to be a Hindu in order to investigate ancient Hindu texts which point to actual events, just as one does not have to be a Christian in order to investigate biblical accounts.

I am neither.

Okay, then what is your explanation for the Burning Bush, the parting of the Red Sea, stopping the rotation of the Earth, the Great Flood and the absence of evidence for it, raising the dead and turning water into wine or even blood?

My point is, you are taking the Vedas literally in the places where they support your ideas, and dismissing the parts that require you to believe in the very entities that were using these so-called "weapons of mass destruction" in which you so firmly believe.

If that's not cherry-picking, then what is? What gives you the authority to proclaim which parts of the Vedas are descriptive of actual events, and which parts are utter nonsense?

Harte