US fears defeat in Iran war

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant
War ... what is it good for? ....

There are many types of "warfare". You have policing actions, interventions, limited warfare, all out warfare and even, so called, peace keeping is a form of warfare.

The United States "lost" the "war" in Viet Nam not because it was incapable of winning but because they fought the wrong sort of war. The U.S. was restricted to the type of actions that it could take because of self-imposed, politically restraining rules of engagement. In Viet Nam, the tide turned very quickly once the U.S., under Nixon, began bombing Hanoi. The North Vietnamese returned to the peace talks with haste when they experienced a taste of "unrestricted warfare".

Such is the case in Iraq or, as in the case of warfare with Iran, it all depends on what kind of war the U.S. wages. I can clearly state that if the U.S. declared an all-out, unrestricted war against Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere in the world, the U.S. would win. But, as we can all understand, an unrestricted war would be one that would have an enormous death toll among innocent civilians.

Look at Iraq, yes there are many civilians being killed but one would also have to understand that there would be a great many more innocents killed in an unrestricted warfare. All out war with the U.S., would be a fearsome thing to behold.

If the U.S. declared an all-out, unrestricted war with Iran, all that I can say is that the U.S. would win. To say otherwise would be ignorant.

You nailed it! Thanks for the post.

yes , if the usa went for all out war with iran then they would win - right un til fuel hit $20 per gallon.


iran is the 4th larget supplier of oil in the world and sells it to the usa.

if they bomb iran then iran stops the oil and blocks the strait of hormuz ; even the USN says they will take serious casualities to a CBG forcing that narrow piece of waterway open,

Society suffers from long term memory loss and every generation has its own nuclear boogeymen.


Remember the 50's? Duck and cover


Remember the 60's? Cuban Missile Crisis


Remember the 80's? Petrov Prevented Global Nuclear War


Remember three years ago?
DICTATOR KIM JONG IL IS PUSHING THE WORLD TOWARD
A SHOWDOWN OVER HIS NUCLEAR-WEAPONS PROGRAM


Has the threat ever disappeared? Does it go away when escalated?

A pre-emptive strikes set a new presidence, then it comes back to kill you.
When the threats have been actualized, everyone loses... boom your kids are dead.

Mutual assured destruction = No Winners

Ever mind the Rule of Three
Three times what thou givest returns to thee
This lesson well, thou must learn
Thee only gets what thou dost earn!


Chimp leaders destine world to apedom.







[edit on 19-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Harlequin
yes , if the usa went for all out war with iran then they would win - right un til fuel hit $20 per gallon.


iran is the 4th larget supplier of oil in the world and sells it to the usa.

if they bomb iran then iran stops the oil and blocks the strait of hormuz ; even the USN says they will take serious casualities to a CBG forcing that narrow piece of waterway open,

If the U.S. went into Iran with an all-out, unrestricted warfare, it would be for a damned good reason -- Iran has the bomb and the U.S. or her allies are seriously threatened. To prevent the U.S. , or her allies, from being subjected to a nuclear attack or nuclear blackmail is worth the increase in fuel prices. Besides, the higher petroleum costs rise, the greater the impetus industry will have for the development of alternative fuels; bio fuels, hydrogen and even the extraction of shale oil petroleum (for which there is an ample world supply).

Well if it's going to be so easy to attack Iran, and all those Iranian missiles are no threat to US bases in Iraq and US shipping in the Gulf, then where is your damn attack then? Iran is enriching uranium right now as we speak and Natanz is going into full production, not to mention all their other nuke sites..so where the attack, all I see is US army getting killed in Iraq everyday and their vehicles burning as they murder innocent Iraqis..no Iran attack even being considered..forget about the UNSC-Russia & China have already siad w/o a doubt NO sanctions will be placed on Iran..so lets not pretend like the US is waiting for something at the UNSC-they are not even considering an attack on Iran because they know they will lose in the resulting war of attrition, Iran will bomb American bases in Iraq and US shipping and the US can hit back, but ultimatly it is very expensive supporting this massive military mission on the other side of the world and the US is going bankrupt, when the 2 sides stop shooting at each other it will be on Irans terms with the Americans struggling in Iraq.

Originally posted by ConfederacyOfUnity
well i do not support my gov, but i am American and i do love my country....your leader may have called us out..but we're not as imperialist has most of the world has made us...give us a few good reasons...like try to assainate our pres, nuke us, invade us or something..and then you would face the wrath of us...which is what u want of course....and when they start the drafting and im shipped off to your country to fight a war that u started...ill be damn sure to make sure i find u and make u kiss my GI boots...as i march with my other american GI's through ur captial streets.....LIVE ON USA!

Ahmadenijad responded to US threats. He did not "call you out."

A war that "we" started? Like Saddam started?

Kiss your boots? Marching through my capital?

Your heroic and brave Stormtrooper Wire-Monsters are being defeated in Iraq by teenage boys with AK47's.

You are to foolish to see that there are many around the world who are very eager for the US to attack Iran.

Look, no one -- no one -- is eager to go to war. War is not a good avenue for anyone. No one want to attack Iran. If someone wanted to attack Iran, they would have done so long ago -- Jimmy Carter certainly had every opportunity and justification to do so as did Ronald Reagan. No one wants to go to war against Iran.

However, war is a diplomatic tool when diplomacy, ultimately, breaks down. George Bush and his European counterparts are still working diplomatically. What they are asking is that Iran open up their nuclear research facilities to inspection and that Iran stop -- cease and desist -- the development of nuclear enriched, "bomb grade", material.

Iran, on the other hand, has used the inspections as a bargaining chip -- inspections, however, are not negotiable. Iran has stated that their research in nuclear enrichment is for peaceful nuclear development meant for energy production. Yet, Russia has already made an offer to supply the necessary nuclear enriched material. Again, Iran has wavered, back and forth, using this aspect as another bargaining chip.

The solution to this "stand-off" is simple. Iran would cease the development of their nuclear enrichment program. Their nuclear facilities would be inspected by international experts. And Russia, perhaps other countries; i.e., France, would supply nuclear enriched materials for energy production purposes. Additionally, Iran could possibly negotiate for nuclear expertise in this area.

All Iran needs to do is agree and the "stand-off" is over. And countless lives will be saved. Yes, this sounds like blackmail from the Western standpoint but it also looks like blackmail from the Iranian point of view. Diplomatically, however, lives are more important than "saving face" for Iran.

Keep in mind that ever since nuclear weapons were developed, it has been a genie that simply cannot be put back in the bottle. As long as a limited number of "responsible" governments maintain controls on nuclear weapons, it is still better than the possibility that more and more countries -- especially ones that have already publicly called for the destruction of other countries -- Israel -- this is better than the alternative. Besides, it is obscene that countries whose populations live in abject poverty work to develop nuclear weapons.

And, yes, you could say that it is obscene that the U.S. has nuclear weapons and I would agree. It is obscene that anyone has such weapons. But, again, it is impossible to "un-invent" something. It is better to limit the possession of nuclear weapons until a time when the world can get together to destroy such nuclear weapons or to develop a globally accepted control.

Until such a time, it is necessary for Iran to reassure the world -- not just the U.S. -- and to accept the demands from Europe, Russia and the U.S.
This is a prudent course of action....and the ball is now in Iran's court.

Originally posted by pRoPhEcY

Originally posted by ConfederacyOfUnity
well i do not support my gov, but i am American and i do love my country....your leader may have called us out..but we're not as imperialist has most of the world has made us...give us a few good reasons...like try to assainate our pres, nuke us, invade us or something..and then you would face the wrath of us...which is what u want of course....and when they start the drafting and im shipped off to your country to fight a war that u started...ill be damn sure to make sure i find u and make u kiss my GI boots...as i march with my other american GI's through ur captial streets.....LIVE ON USA!

Ahmadenijad responded to US threats. He did not "call you out."

A war that "we" started? Like Saddam started?

Kiss your boots? Marching through my capital?

Your heroic and brave Stormtrooper Wire-Monsters are being defeated in Iraq by teenage boys with AK47's.

You are to foolish to see that there are many around the world who are very eager for the US to attack Iran.

So do you work for the ministry of propaganda or what? Show me where teenage boys with AK's are beating any US troops. They only hide and blow up cars from afar like the cowards that they are. Notice anytime they see a US Soldier they run and cower in the shadows until they can get a remote device then fight.

America HAS lost.

Throwing money at this one prolongs the loss I would say.

Time to accept defeat, come home and shut up for a while until the winds die down however thats not whats going to happen at all. Iran is coming any day now and so is a civil war at home.

Ohhh, its gonna be good.


Got escape route?

Originally posted by The_Voice
Ohhh, its gonna be good.

Ohhhhh, man. How in the hell can war ever be called good? Please, talk to a veteran -- someone who has been at war. War is never good. War is hell describes more than just being a movie title. A war is a hell experience for everyone concerned.

Noooooooo, it's gonna be bad.

Originally posted by scarecrow19d

Originally posted by pRoPhEcY

Originally posted by ConfederacyOfUnity
well i do not support my gov, but i am American and i do love my country....your leader may have called us out..but we're not as imperialist has most of the world has made us...give us a few good reasons...like try to assainate our pres, nuke us, invade us or something..and then you would face the wrath of us...which is what u want of course....and when they start the drafting and im shipped off to your country to fight a war that u started...ill be damn sure to make sure i find u and make u kiss my GI boots...as i march with my other american GI's through ur captial streets.....LIVE ON USA!

Ahmadenijad responded to US threats. He did not "call you out."

A war that "we" started? Like Saddam started?

Kiss your boots? Marching through my capital?

Your heroic and brave Stormtrooper Wire-Monsters are being defeated in Iraq by teenage boys with AK47's.

You are to foolish to see that there are many around the world who are very eager for the US to attack Iran.

So do you work for the ministry of propaganda or what? Show me where teenage boys with AK's are beating any US troops. They only hide and blow up cars from afar like the cowards that they are. Notice anytime they see a US Soldier they run and cower in the shadows until they can get a remote device then fight.

Ha!!

You are out of your mind.

What is "Shock and Awe"? Hand to hand combat?

What a fool you are!

The Iraqi National Resistance has not ONLY defeated the US, it has HUMILIATED THEM!!!

You say these things as though the Resistance were not freedom fighters and patriots.

I thought Americans fond of these qualities, fighting for ones country.

Sir, if you believe the LIES that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld tell, regarding the USAns reason for going to Iraq, you will NEVER see what is really hapenning.

If you admire freedom and liberty and independence, and those who give their lives for such things, you would then support the Iraqi Resistance.

And you would condemn Bush, the stuttering fool, for sending so many young Americans to die and be maimed and spiritually scarred forever, for the sake of the wealthy few.

Another recap.

"Mene dolzhen znat'."

Chevo? Che za lepet? Russian my a$$.

Just said as hell that even after Vietnam and all the loss of life, American thirst for blood is insatiable, be it in binging war to people of the world, or the true domestic war of gun violence epidemic and gangs.

JoeTex, what a shame.

iqonx, that was funny, LOL! "and if you Americans dont behave we muslims will send you back micheal jackson whos currently in bahrain in the middle east."

brEaDITOR right on! Common sense in action.

backed up by the voice of reason from pRoPhEcY,

Munro_DreadGod, another delusional the great West verses East case (be it Middle East these days.)

All such notions come down to the same point, "all we have to do is to bomb the crap out of who ever we want to bring them pain". What a noble cause ha? Like a retarded bully who's been in the same class for years and feels really proud of him self because he can beet on kids half his size.

Hi Seekerof, remember me? It's me, iskander.

ludaChris, you're wrong, figure it out.

israelcd, there it is - "Minimize arrogance and maximize understanding and you might have a chance..."

Seekerof, it's me again, mind your "verbalising".

War sucks, and so do the people who cheer it on. You suck, you war mongering puppets, grow the hell up and do some work of your own instead of robbing other working people.

Ha!!

You are out of your mind.

What is "Shock and Awe"? Hand to hand combat?

What a fool you are!

The Iraqi National Resistance has not ONLY defeated the US, it has HUMILIATED THEM!!!

You say these things as though the Resistance were not freedom fighters and patriots.

I thought Americans fond of these qualities, fighting for ones country.

Sir, if you believe the LIES that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld tell, regarding the USAns reason for going to Iraq, you will NEVER see what is really hapenning.

If you admire freedom and liberty and independence, and those who give their lives for such things, you would then support the Iraqi Resistance.

And you would condemn Bush, the stuttering fool, for sending so many young Americans to die and be maimed and spiritually scarred forever, for the sake of the wealthy few.


You must be be out of your mind.Do you actually think the US could be defeated by the Iraqi resistance as you call it. The US is fighting a politically correct war. Every thing they do is scutinized by the world. The resistance are cowards that hide in mosques and behind woman and children.
Do you actually think that if America wanted to defeat them they wouldn't.
Just imagine if the old Soviet Union was in there,Iraq would be a parking lot.
But because the US dosen't want to offend anyone they fight with one hand behind their backs.

Ha!!

You are out of your mind.

What is "Shock and Awe"? Hand to hand combat?

What a fool you are!

The Iraqi National Resistance has not ONLY defeated the US, it has HUMILIATED THEM!!!

You say these things as though the Resistance were not freedom fighters and patriots.

I thought Americans fond of these qualities, fighting for ones country.

Sir, if you believe the LIES that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld tell, regarding the USAns reason for going to Iraq, you will NEVER see what is really hapenning.

If you admire freedom and liberty and independence, and those who give their lives for such things, you would then support the Iraqi Resistance.

And you would condemn Bush, the stuttering fool, for sending so many young Americans to die and be maimed and spiritually scarred forever, for the sake of the wealthy few.

3 years of fighting and less then 3000 Killed. Some humilation. Name another war fought that long where that few were killed.

I also see you did not, rather could not refute my statements.
So how much do you get paid to be in the Ministry of Propaganda?
As for Shock and Awe, that was against military targets, not quite the same as planting bombs in cars and running them into lines of people now is it? But hey justify it anyway you want. Just hope that for your sake and the sake of Iran that you puppet and his masters the mullahs back down and do not take Iran to a course that will see its destruction.

You can think what you want of the US, you can delude yourself into thinking that Iran could do better the Iraq did, but I hope for your sake and for the many millions in Iran that your foolish leaders and the fools like yourself who blindly follow them, learn to back down and remember their place in the world.

All those people who say america only lost 3000 people in iraq well to be fair the iraqis dont even have basic technology even hezbollah in lebanon is better armed then the whole of the iraqi insurgency.

the iraqis are very poorly armed becuase they where not trainned before the invasion they where trainned during infact most people only recive like 1 week of trainning and are sent into iraq thats hardly any trainning at all.

in iran they have guerillias/millitas and no they are not terrorists but soldiers that have proper trainning and are better armed and better structured then the iraqi insurgency also the qualitry of firepower is much better. rember the iranians trainned and armed hezbollah and hezbollah are very decent you can bet your life that the iranians guerillas that are setup to stop an invasion of iran are going to be just as good or better then hezbollah.

also people need to remebr that the iranians can smash all millitry bases in the middle east and they dont even need the shahab missile to do it iran has many different version of missiles ranges from 90km to 2500km just check my signiture to find out the complete collection of missiles that iran has.

all iran has to do is start raining missiles on surrounding countries combined with the fact that iranians can send guerillas into all surrounding country to bog america down in all those countries in conflict. not to mention the suicide and rocket/mortar attacks against america/western embasies in the middle east and asia. war is not just about bombing people its also about breaking the morale of your enemy and in this case you can bomb them and they have all the odds in there favor right now to break the morale of america by increasing the price of oil, creating instability in the middle east, attacking US embasies around the world and raining rocket and missile attacks on american troops around asia,middle east and africa also lets not forget the suicide bomb attacks and an increase in sophisticated road side bombs using large diameter shaped charged bombs entering iraq to be used against western forces.

its true there defences wont hold up forever against amercias airforce but they can still attack you guys on the ground in surrounding countries.

yes , if the usa went for all out war with iran then they would win - right un til fuel hit $20 per gallon.

Your right we would win, and no the oil would not go to 20$ dollars a gallon. Look up past conflicts in the region and you will see that the price of oil (percentage wise) did not go up that high.

iran is the 4th larget supplier of oil in the world and sells it to the usa.

Yes it is, it exports close to 4 BB per day, however you forgot to mention that the overwhelming percentage of its economy is based on those exports. One more thing, the US stopped buying Iranian oil a long time ago.

if they bomb iran then iran stops the oil and blocks the strait of hormuz ; even the USN says they will take serious casualities to a CBG forcing that narrow piece of waterway open,

You don't try to stop international oil supplies and think you can get away with it, that would just get everyone pissed. By the way, look at the Iran-Iraq war and what happened to Iran’s navy when it tried to sink international oil tankers.

thank you scarecrow...that was a lovely piece.....keep it goin!

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Those shoulder fired pre historic Vietnam era weapons are a joke. You have no idea what will come flying into Iran when the time comes. The sad part is you most likely wont even see what is attacking you until it is too late. You would have just as much luck with a fly swatter or a good rusty pocket knife. All I can say is good luck with that. Say hi to Bob for me.

Yet here we are 3 years after the war has started and you're still struggling with a country that didn't even have an army. Good luck when you face a country that does.
Strange that after all those "mishaps" the US still fails to see that pure firepower will get you nowhere. Could it be that they don't really care and just want the war-industry running?

ALRIGHT ENOUGH SNIPING. You know who you are. If you can't keep to ATS standards don't post. If you do so anyways expect warns.

Originally posted by iqonx
war is not just about bombing people its also about breaking the morale of your enemy and in this case you can bomb them and they have all the odds in there favor right now to break the morale of america by increasing the price of oil, creating instability in the middle east, attacking US embasies around the world and raining rocket and missile attacks on american troops around asia,middle east and africa also lets not forget the suicide bomb attacks and an increase in sophisticated road side bombs using large diameter shaped charged bombs entering iraq to be used against western forces.

You kidding? You can’t break the morale of American soldiers, regardless of what some dictator who watched Blackhawk Down one too many time thinks. We are a nation of psychopaths, and our ground forces are our elite psychopaths. Morale? Not when you fight for pride. Know of any people more prideful than Americans? American soldiers KNOW they can win, and so they do. American soldiers, as a whole, do not fight for their country, for oil, for family, or for God. We fight to be the best, because we are the best. I don’t support the war (I was in Sadr City 2003-2004, BTW) and I am not a nationalist however I (and you too) still must face facts.

You can’t beat prideful Americans because once we start fighting we are fighting for the fight.

its true there defences wont hold up forever against amercias airforce but they can still attack you guys on the ground in surrounding countries.

What, you mean like a real war? We are kicking the crap out of an insurgency as we speak, but "real" warfare is where we will shine. I hope Iran backs down, you guys need to start by assassinating your leaders and abandoning you nuke program. This is your only chance.