Zionism, No better Home than in Freemasonry

And yes, Jews are a people, a nation and Judaism is a religion

Wrong! The Jews are not a nation, or a race... you are a religion. Your not an Israelite and you cannot prove it by blood. There is little left to be proven of your so-called race and your nation is a construct of matter - it is dust. You actually insult Jews by claiming that a Jew is a race.

Originally posted by markusjharper

You actually insult Jews by claiming that a Jew is a race.

You are kidding and you should stop that.

I never claimed Jews to be a race. We are a people, a nation. - Our religion is called Judaism.

Go back and read what I've posted. Any problems with that?

But - what about Valhall's really good suggestion?

Since you already admitted that you made a mistake in regard of Prince William.

Originally posted by markusjharper

A few other well known Jewish [...]

Mazzini the founder of the Italian mafia

Karl Marx

Stalin

Churchill and Roosevelt

Prince William and Karl William

Could you please give any proof that Josef Stalin was a Jew?

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Riwka]

Please...this forum is for discussion about conspiracies as they relate to Secret Societies. If this thread doesn't maintain that focus I will immediately close this thread.

Last warning...

I hope this thread doesn’t get close, so I hope you guys can settle down also. However "Zionist" seem to have become one of the great taboo words. One admin, and 2 mods have already posted in this thread, which suggest that they also have to be careful that "jew bashing" doesn't happen on ATS. It is a terrible stigma, and many reputations are ruined if associations can be made. (Ask David Icke.) I also wouldn't ATS associate with such ideas.

OK. The Balfour declaration suggests that Lord Rothschild was at the center, or at least had a deep interest in the creation of a Jewish Homeland. How about we forget Stalin for a bit (as it’s not really relevant at this point) and confirm that Lord Rothschild was indeed a Mason. That would be the actual first link between Zionism and Masonry.

However, simply googling “Rothschild” and “Masonry” and finding Search Results, doesn’t make a connection. Is there anything more substantial then that?

Kinglizard,

I blew the thread staying up too late and rushing posts. It's my fault and no one elses. You were right Thomas - what a (bleeper i am). So we got Masons who come here to defend Freemasonry, and then leave suddenly, and Zionists who come here to defend Zionism, but no-one to speak for those who have suffered under the evil brought down upon them by people like Rothschild? I cannot speak for them - I failed I would have like to have gone deep into discussion with you CN but I just couldn't get past a few things. I guess it’s all just a big lie...Zionism must be sort of ok and Rothschild, may be I was wrong about the family and likley great folks

sleep well.

[edit on 18-3-2006 by markusjharper]

markus...

Don't attempt anemic posturing of a martyr. I would like to point out that ConspiracyNut has done about 100% more to try to keep your topic alive and on point than you have.

I think one of the things you are confused about is that you stated back in another post that some one needed to prove that the Rothschilds are NOT Masons.

Okay, that's not how this works. When you present a theory that alleges some one is something, you have the burden of proof. ConspiracyNut has asked if some one can provide proof the list of Rothschilds are Masons.

That's a good place to start researching. If you can center your attentions on PROVING your theory...this thread will have a much longer life than it will with the personal attacks and silly posturing you have taken so far.

Well now then.... shall we start?

One of many links but I have books here which I will have to copy out to quote in the future. There are so many, honstly like I said ....I figured it was blatently obvious since Rothschild's interest in Freemasonry in the 1770's - or did you guys all happen to forget that is was NOT the church but Freemasonry, that Rothschild targeted?

users.cyberone.com.au...

Hitler didn't understand that the Anglo American elite was (and still is) intimately connected with international (i.e. Rothschild) finance. Anglo American imperialism is in fact a front for the families that own the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve. These Jewish and non-Jewish families are connected by money, marriage and Lucifer worship (i.e. Freemasonry). Both Roosevelt and Churchill were their flunkies. (All our "leaders" are.)

In 1776 Meyer Rothschild financed the Illuminati, a Masonic secret society that in turn spawned the major revolutions of the modern era including the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. The ultimate aim is to establish the banker world dictatorship, which is at an advanced stage today.

In the 1930's their purpose was to incite a two-front war that would leave the great nation states (England, Germany and Russia) prostrate. Like all wars, the purpose was to kill millions of people, traumatize humanity, increase public debt and private profit, and make "world government" (the future UN) seem essential for "peace."


www.thewatcherfiles.com...

CO-MASTERS OF THE WORLD--connections to secret societies

The Rothschilds had played a major role in the Bavarian Illuminati, (25) and it is known that a least one of the sons of Amsel was a member. As the reader remembers, Amsel placed his sons in the major European capitals, where they each set up the principal banking houses. By their own secret intelligence service and their own news network they could outmanouver any European government. (26) The large amounts of voluminous correspondence by Rothschild couriers attracted attention, (27) but no one ever stopped their personal intelligence and mail services. After the Bavarian illuminati were exposed, the central occult power over the European secret societies shifted to Carbonarism a.k.a. the Alta Vendita,(28) led by another powerful Rothschild, Karl Rothschild,29 son of Amschel. In 1818, Karl participated in a secret document that was sent out to the head-quarters of Masonry from the Alta Vendita. The Masons were quite distressed when a copy of this was lost, and offered rewards to anyone who could return the lost copy. Unbelievably huge quote cut down to size. See above link for the rest of the story




[edit on 18-3-2006 by markusjharper]

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Surely someone as highly regarded as Lord Rothschild would be held in high regards by the Israelite Masonic Lodge. – So I doubt they would keep it secret. Could one of the Masons on this site contact The Grand Lodge of the State of Israel and ask if any Rothschild have ever been masons?

Address:
Freemasons Temple,
5 Weizmann St.,
POB 33206,
Tel Aviv 61331, ISRAEL
Tel. +972-3-6954218/9
Fax. +972-3-6960271

E-mail:
• Grand Lodge of Israel: glisraelATnetvision.net.il
• Ami Levin: amilevinATiddo.co.il (Webmaster)
• Leon Zeldis: lzeldisATnetvision.net.il (English and Spanish)
• Nahum Leafsheets: nahum_lATnetvision.net.il (English)
• Shmuel Nevo: nevoATnetvision.net.il (Hebrew)

source:
www.freemasonry.org.il... (EDIT: I’ve substituted all the @s for ATs., althought doesn't look like they care about spam.)

[edit on 18/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

25. William Still writes, "In 1782, the headquarters of illuminized Freemasonry was moved to Frankfurt, the stronghold of German finance, and controlled by the Rothschilds." Still, The New World Order, p. 82.

Source: Footnotes on www.thewatcherfiles.com...

Although I realize this is a bit off-topic, being the links between the Bavarian Illuminati and Rothschild (not Freemasonry and Rothschild). Nevertheless, this is certainly the right forum. Does anyone know about William Still, Is he legit? I previously never read of any direct links between the Rothschild and the Illuminati. (Although it does come close through their involvement with the House of Hesse)

markus, Right church wrong pew. This is not a forum that will allow criticism of Zionism. We have the ZDL here in force. You can present evidence all day long and you'll be railed upon. Zionist 'leaders' are responsible for much of the conflict and suffering since 1917. They made sure that scrutinizing the Holocaust became a crime in now 10 countries in Europe. Hell, Zionists even founded the N.A.A.C.P. around 1920 here in the States. There wasn't a black President of that organization until the seventies. Zionism is an extremely well organized, well funded [notice how the Rothchilds never appear in Steve Forbes b.s. list] effort to subjugate much of Western Civilization and it's working.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
markus, Right church wrong pew. This is not a forum that will allow criticism of Zionism.

I'm sorry to say you seem to have the wrong take on this issue.

We always embrace criticism of political views and agendas.

However, in this particular case, there are a confounding number of people unable to discern the difference between jewish religion, jewish people, Israelis, zionists, radical zionists, talmudists, elders of zion, and radical racist zionist jewish people. (insert any other variations)

All too often, the issue gets lumped into a generalized "jew bashing" and when we seek to moderate such topics, we have a chorus of other "generalizing jew bashers" who claim we're suppressing criticism of Zionism. When in fact, we'd welcome sane and sober criticism... we just don't see it much.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
This is not a forum that will allow criticism of Zionism. We have the ZDL here in force

As I mentioned before ATS has to be careful and not allow any anti-Semitic comments on the forum. ZDL (Zionist Defamation League?) is hardly at work. I think if we can continue this discussion without getting into race and religion, we’ll be OK.

Remember that we are talking about a man, a family – the Rothschild. Their religion and race is irrelevant to the discussion on hand.



[edit on 18/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Is amazed that an administrator of a conspiracy forum tries to debunk the largest, longest, and most wide spread conspiracy that has ever existed.

Judaism has conspired for world dominations for centuries.

The facts of Judaism can be seen from their own publications.

Here is a prime example of how Judaism in its purest form (orthodox) views gentiles.

www.haaretzdaily.com...


Here is the last few sentences of this article - and THEY ARE VERY TELLING!

"The question is whether the ultra-Orthodox public in Israel, including its leaders and its spokesmen, is prepared to rid itself entirely of the view that non-Jews are not really human beings. If the answer is negative, this does not bode well for initiatives that aim to nurture dialogue and understanding between various segments of the Israeli public."

Now this comes right from a Israeli Jewish Newspaper known world-wide! It is written by a Jewish person as well!

The truth is indeed far stranger than fiction.

For those who deny the reality of what Judaism really is - here is another article to see just how sick, perverted, and disgusting that the purest form of Judaism really is...


This article shows how vile, perverted, sick, and discusting the religion of Judaism can be.

Nowhere in the Old Testament does it say that the man who performed the circumcision was to "suck" the wound!



The following article comes from the New York Times - here is the link:

www.nytimes.com...

you do have to register - but it is free and no big deal

here are some highlights of this article:


"The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b'peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it."


"The use of suction to stop bleeding dates back centuries and is mentioned in the Talmud." of course it is in the sick and perverted Talmud - something like this would never be found in the Scriptures!

"But the most traditionalist groups, including many Hasidic sects in New York, consider oral suction integral to God's covenant with the Jews requiring circumcision, and they have no intention of stopping."


"Defenders of oral suction say there is no proof that it spreads herpes at all. They say that mohels use antiseptic mouthwash before performing oral suction"



But yes - you do tell me that this is not a perverted sick and disgusting religion.

And if you want tons of proof of how they are tied in with the Masons - i suggest you obtain and read:

The Plot Against the Church - by Mourice Pinay

Oh and yes - not all Jews are Zionists either...

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

They are very rich. I was going through the annual report and it looks totally false to me. Apparantly their report states they did not even profit one billion dollars in 2005.

I hardly see Wal-Mart which profits about 10 billion dollars a year having more than possibly the most powerful investment group in the world. I wish I could find a list of all the entities and utilities this group owned through subsidaries and majority shareholder.

I found this which links the Rothschild group in control of the five biggest national banks in the U.S.

These six banks in 1914 owned 40% of the stock of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

[National City and First National] merged into the present Citibank in 1955, giving them one-fourth of the shares in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. The $134 billion Citicorp is now the largest bank in the U.S.

The Federal Reserve System printout of shareholders July 26, 1983 showed that they now own 53%, as follows:

Citibank 15%
Chase Manhattan 14%
Morgan Guaranty Trust 9%
Manufacturers Hanover 7%
Chemical Bank 8%

Citicorp Citibank is No. 1 in size in the U.S.
No. 3 is Chase Manhattan with $82 billion assets
No. 4 is Manufacturers Hanover, $64 billion
No. 5 is J.P. Morgan, $58 billion
No. 6 Chemical Bank
No. 11 is First Chicago, formerly First National Bank of Chicago, controlled by the Baker-Morgan interests
[In 2000, J.P. Morgan merged with Chase, and by 2004 Citigroup was "by far" the largest bank in the world. --ed]

House Report 159362, p.183, notes:

"Next to Baker and Son, Morgan & Co. is the largest stockholder of First National (of New York), owning 14,500 shares; Baker and Morgan together own 40,000 of the 100,000 shares of First National Bank."

The New York Times, Sept. 3, 1914, at the time of the Federal Reserve stock was being sold, showed the principal stockholders of these banks as follows:

National City Bank -- 250,000 shares:
James Stillman 47,498
J.P. Morgan & Co., 14,500
W. Rockefeller 10,000
M.T. Pyne 8267
Percy Pyne 8267
J.D. Rockefeller 1750
J.S. Rockefeller 100
W.A. Rockefeller 10
J.P. Morgan Jr. 1000
National Bank of Commerce -- 250,000 shares:
George F. Baker 10,000
J.P. Morgan Co. 7800
Mary W. Harriman, (widow of E.H. Harriman) 5650
Paul Warburg 3000
Jacob Schiff 1000
J.P. Morgan Jr. 1100
Chase National Bank:
George F. Baker 13,408
Hanover Natl. Bank:
James Stillman 4000
William Rockefeller 1540

During a period when thousands of U.S. banks have gone bankrupt since 1914, these banks, protected by their interest in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, have grown steadily. A Senate Report, "Interlocking Directorates among the Major U.S. Corporations, a staff study of the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs," June 15, 1978, shows that five of these aforementioned banks held a total of 470 interlocking directorates in the 130 major corporations of the U.S., an average of 3.6 directors per major U.S. Corporation. This massive report is worthy of anyone's detailed study; we can only give the totals here:

CITICORP: 97 directorates
J.P. MORGAN CO.: 99 directorates
CHEMICAL BANK: 96 directorates
CHASE MANHATTAN: 89 directorates
MANUFACTURERS HANOVER: 89 directorates
This centralized control over American industry by five New York banks controlled from London suggests that instead of 130 major U.S. corporations, we may have only one, which in itself is an outpost of the London Connection.

Thats only the tip of the iceburg. I havnt even finished this report.

Originally posted by markusjharper These white Jews like Rothschild (I'm white btw) are not a RACE, not a nation and that is my WHOLE point.

1. There is no such thing as race
   
2. The idea that nations should be defined by races is a throwback to the previous millenium, never supported by rational reasoning and correctly rejected.

Honestly, I could care less what color she is

Then stop asking her and anyone else. This is a discussion board about conspiracy, not about each other.







If someone comes on here and completely ignores the threat of the Rothschild Dynasty (maybe they never heard if him..lol) and then proceeds to nitpick at everything into a flim-flam attempt to support Zionism; that is gonna get me going , sorry. Anyone, who has the gall to try and tell me that Zionism is a great thing....honestly, I'm saying that these people are true scum
You are not permitted to personally attack other members here. Stop calling other members scum just because they've been able to desconstruct and rip apart your "race theory" arguments.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that the Rothschilds were not Masonic-Zionists.

No one is under any such obligation, and considering that you are blasting anyone that disagrees with you as 'scum', perhaps people aren't even interested in proving any such thing to you.

Instead...of someone doing a simple search in www.google.ca

And again, you dodge and evade the question and show that you are incapable of demonstrating that the rothchilds are zionists or masons. This is the primary reason why you are ignored by people and cannot carryon competent discussion with them here, because it is clear thatyou are not really interested in having a discussion (and, agian, this is a discussion board) and would probably be incapable of having any discussion even if you were interested in doing so.

In 1776 Meyer Rothschild financed the Illuminati, a Masonic secret society that in turn spawned the major revolutions of the modern era including the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917

What evidence supports the three claims made there, that the rothchilds suported the illuminati, that the illuminati are a masonic organization, and that the illuminati inspired the bolsheviks.

The Rothschilds had played a major role in the Bavarian Illuminati, (25) and it is known that a least one of the sons of Amsel was a member.

Ok, lets look at a few things here so that we can all see some basic issues in research. Firstly, the way in which you are presenting this information is as if you have written it, thats a nitpick, but some people would get confused over who is talking.
Secondly, there is a footnote there, note 25. A footnote is an indication that directs the reader to a citation, and that citation is for a work that actually demonstrates the claim being made. Thus, one doesn't have to constantly demonstrate each claim while writting about it. Normally what one would do is go to the reference cited, and check it, so see just how well the item was demonstrated. Here, on that webpage, there are no citations provided. THe notation is there, but the citations aren't at the end of the page. THat is because the people maintaining the page are inept researchers or are actually trying to hide their sources because they know that they are poor.
ALso, notice, the thing noted as having a citation, and thus implying that someone at least convinced the author of the work that it was true, is with respect to the family being invovled with the illuminati, but then there is the further claim that Amsel Rothchild was an initiated member of the fraternity, but no citation, so we can't even verify this otherwise bland statement.

After the Bavarian illuminati were exposed, the central occult power over the European secret societies shifted to Carbonarism

The Carbonari were around long after the illuminati, and, yes, they were a radical liberal organization, they were also hyper-religious. They were one of the many secret socieities that were involved in the Risorgimento.

The original author seems to be citing some sources, who knows what those sources are, there is alot of research into the carbonari and their rites and documents and networks. However, the author seems to simply imply that there was, behind the illuminati and all these other secret socieities throughout time, a behind the scenes controlling organization, that 'switched' its focus from the bavarian club to a neapolitan one, but, again, notice, no footnote, no citation, apparently its just mere supposition. Thus, its a statement of theory. Again, where is the evidence that supports the theory??? That is what was asked in the first place, and your response appears to literally benothing more than to present other theories as a distraction.

Please demonstrate that the Rothchild family were zionists. Please demonstrate that they were in a masonic organization. Please demonstreate that the people named in the orignal post held those degrees. You made specific claims, you have not provided specific evidence, you seem to merely be credulously accepting ideas that you subjectively and personally find favourable. Apparently, it 'makes sense' in your worldview that these people were evil zionist masons. Very well, but, again, what evidence supports that?? By presenting evidence and things that the rest of us can actually discuss and consider, you are able to communicate with people who do not a priori already agree with you. THis is a basic task in communicating with other people,why are you so unwilling to participate in even a basic level of discussion??

Originally posted by Nygdan
Please demonstrate that the Rothchild family were zionists.

I was under the impression that the Balfour Declaration established this. (which I cited on page 1) What were missing is a Masonic link, I provided the address for the Grand Lodge of Israel. I’m really not good at contacting people like that. Can someone please give it a go?

Normally what one would do is go to the reference cited, and check it, so see just how well the item was demonstrated. Here, on that webpage, there are no citations provided. THe notation is there, but the citations aren't at the end of the page

I don't know what you mean, I have provided that above. (RE: William Still) I hope I'm not on your Ignore list.



[edit on 18/3/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

The following is all speculation

DYepes I fully agree with you that the Rothschild are not disclosing there whole assets. And I don’t think MJ’s numbers are that far off. For example if we look at the Rockefellers, we’re expected to believe that these extremely bright individuals somehow pissed away their great Standard Oil/Chase Manhattan holdings. (I think Forbes has David at #74) Note that each parts of Standard Oil have grown to become huge companies on their own and are now merging again.

We can’t forget that these fortunes were accumulated before the advent of Tax schemes. So they had plenty of time to safely tuck their assets away. However it’s my personal opinion that the Rothschilds are a front for a group even richer and powerful.

I repeat, the above is ALL speculation, don’t ask me for sources…

It makes sense to me that people attack freemasonry, richest like Rothschilds and Rockefellers, Global agencies like UN, and ideals like Zionism rather than OBCESSING about GWB all day long.

Trust me, GWB is well down the ladder of global control freaks that are running this world today.

Folks,

Just to let you know that I am still compiling a massive amount of information, yet now that we heve a few 'smarter' folks posting, I will proceed. I owe it to those of who are truly decent seekers of knowledge and truth and for those of you who place "truth" over egoism, I think that you will very much appreciate what I have to offer. As I have said (in case you never caught it) I have several books and not everything can be found in a web search, as only so much can be sourced from there and for those of you who only rely on these methods; you are in for a little surprise.

I will be disussing the roots of the Rothschilds (as Jews) and also the roots of Zionism. I shall explain the significance of what it means as race, or people, or a nation, vs. a religion. I shall be going into some great detail regarding the Rothschilds's financial Empire. Since many web sources claim that the Rothschild's were/are high level Freemasons, I only have to add to this.

It is also important to understand that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" were never proven as fake; only a 'forgery', and I will reveal new information about this also. From following groups such like the Bilderbergers (fart clubs started by guys like Dennis Helley) I couldn't help but notice the Jewish-Zionist connections. Some think I am a anti-Jew, nothing could be further from the truth - and I told a few people here privately that I intent to really turn up the heat.

I'll be keeping my promise, btw. I plan on taking many of you idiots to the cleaners (no offense)..... be chatting with ya soon