What's draining two Great Lakes?

external image

What's draining two Great Lakes? Sinking levels of Huron and Michigan, rising Erie concern U.S. Army Corps, environmentalists.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is disputing some key findings of a controversial report that claims the levels of lakes Michigan and Huron have been on a permanent decline for at least 44 years.

But the Corps is also calling for a detailed study of the apparent drop in those two lakes -- which scientists consider one lake system -- and a corresponding rise in Lake Erie over time.

Environmentalists are sounding alarms, and the International Joint Commission, a U.S.-Canadian governmental group charged with stewardship of the Great Lakes, also is pledging a thorough review.

Michigan and Huron have been steadily draining since a Corps of Engineers dredging project deepened the St. Clair River in 1962 -- and perhaps over a much longer period. So claimed the authors of the 2005 report.

More...

A great article....Surprising, too!


[edit on 12-3-2006 by loam]

Hmmm. well it could either be two things my friend...ONE is.... The sun is getting even hotter and is drying the lake up. OR...The government is sucking up all the water for the aliens or god knows what....

Its the Mississippi River that the Great Lakes are begining to drain from, I Dunno Why or how, but i do know that in this Book on Edgar Cayce "Modern Prophet" one of his readings was about the Great Lakes Draining Via the Mississippi River an that having to do with some major earth changes and so forth, I checked the Drainage routes an Bam its certainly possible,


"Watch New York, Connecticut and the like. Many portions of the east coast will be disturbed, as well as many portions of the west coast, as well as the central portion of the United States. Los Angeles, San Francisco, most of all these will be among those that will be destroyed before New York, or New York City itself, will in the main disappear. This will be another generation though, here; while the southern portions of Carolina, Georgia, these will disappear. This will be much sooner. The waters of the Great Lakes will empty into the Gulf of Mexico."

www.crystalinks.com...

this is the best link of the scripted part of the book i have as i cant find it anywhere else that discribes it further as the Mississippi being the channel as to which the great lakes drain from.


Drainage Map of the Mississippi River and its Tributaries. Some Facts and Figures

www.greatriver.com...


Great Lakes Basin map

atlas.gc.ca...


"Everyone get ready becuz this an our favorite other events are Flagging a Huge changing / Turning Point in Everything as we know it. " - Shane

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Tranceopticalinclined]

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Tranceopticalinclined]

It's being caused by global warming.

Seemingly, a similar situation exists for Lake Chad -

In the 1960s it had an area of more than 26,000 km², making it the fourth largest lake in Africa. By 2000 its extent had fallen to less than 1,500 km². This is due to reduced rainfall combined with greatly increased amounts of irrigation water being drawn from the lake and the rivers which feed it, the largest being the Chari/Logon system, which originates in the mountains of the Central African Republic. It seems likely that the lake will shrink further and perhaps even disappear altogether in the course of the 21st century.

Taken from Wikipedia.


However, given the local meteorological conditions, it's average depth of 1.5 metres and the proximity of such a large population without access to a more advanced water supply infrastructure, the depletion of Lake Chad is unsuprising really.

Loam, could groundwater extraction in a location(s) far removed from the Great Lakes area contribute to these level reductions, do you think? Or are aquifers generlly held to be individual, closed systems...I think I may have read that somewhere.

Having said that, the Earth is a dynamic old soul, so these things may be pefectly natural!!!!

We have had in the Great Lakes region much milder winters on average for years now. That has resulted in less snow fall and less replenishment each year with less melt. Add to that the extra water diverted from the lakes to urban areas. I am not surprised about the lowering of lake levels.
It's mainly due to the lack of substantial snowfalls in the region that feeds the Great Lakes from what I seem to remember.

The last flooding we had here in S.E. Michigan due to the Great Lakes was probably in the early 80's in Lake St. Clair. But I remember growing up in the 60's and 70's at a cottage near Port Huron where we had to build a seawall or else we would have lost our cottage due to the lake rising there and chewing up the shoreline. We literally had to have about 60+ dump trucks of dirt brought in to create our seawall.

It is surprising however that Lake Erie is rising, I didn't realize that the dredging was having such an effect on water-flow.

Edit for Spell Checking

[edit on 12-3-2006 by pavil]

Hmmm. The underground buzz says that the Great Lakes are being drained to replenish the Ogallala Aquifer and allow irrigation to continue in the US breadbasket. Plus industrial use of course.

Commission officials said they plan to investigate the Huron-Michigan water losses in the early years of a five-year look at policies governing lake levels. The $14.6 million study will start this spring if the U.S. and Canadian governments come up with the money.

I'm currently 100 feet from lake michigan, and this year the water level is higher than it has been in years. There seems to be a 10-20 year cycle on the rise and fall of water levels. I usually just check the rust lines on the piers that go out into the lake.Some years its lower, others it's in the same spot as the highest marks on piers that are 80+ years old.

I'm beside Lake Huron and the water levels here are definitely below what has been seen since the mid-sixties. The current thinking is that it is the result of milder dryer winters and summers.

But, compared to 1926 and 1964, the levels are relatively high, if you decide to click on the link below and review the graph for Lake Huron...

chswww.bur.dfo.ca...

Fluctuations in water levels in non-tidal areas are the result of several natural factors and may also be influenced by human activities. These factors operate on a time-scale that varies from hours to years. The levels of the Great Lakes depend on their storage capacity, outflow characteristics of the outlet channels, operating procedures of the regulatory structures, and the amount of water supply received by each lake. The primary natural factors affecting lake levels include precipitation on the lakes, run-off from the drainage basin, evaporation from the lake surface, inflow from upstream lakes, and outflow to the downstream lakes. Man-made factors include diversions into or out of the basin, consumption of water, dredging of outlet channels and the regulation of outflows.

Interesting, thanks for the link. This may be a wierd question, but have there been any new bottled water companys in your area lately( such as dasani,ect)? It seems that there may be a slight connection on why some lakes seem to be lower while others(such as Erie) have had little change. There has even been eco-terrorism related crimes involving destruction of water companys pump lines in my area. Although, I can't say that I blame them. Why should we ship our water to other states/citys if they are in stupid locations(like the desert) anyway?

Seeing as how we are "melting" the world's ice - the phenom in the two GL's may be due to the water table dropping because of human activity... draining the reservoir or sponge more than can be replaced. Ever been to lake Mead? Same sorta thing? Bad environmental management or act of nature?

I'm afraid of the "tiipping-point" where the water tables become too low for recovery. I've seen lower Lake levels in Lake Huron back in the mid-seventies but not by much... inland lakes in the Muskokas are at near all-time lows too.

I was recently up in Frobisher Bay and the problem there is too much water as a result of perma-frost becoming permanently unfrosty... more ice in the harbour this summer than I've ever seen too... picture a "slushy" drink miles wide and to the horizon - not the big house-sized chunks/bergs tho' mostly one-two foot sized cubes and plates of ice.

Victor K.

My immediate guess would be a fall in water tables - probbaly as a combined result of changes in precipitation (such as reduced winter snow fall - as memtioned by pavil) and increased extraction - either for irrigation, industry or domestic use.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Interesting, thanks for the link. This may be a wierd question, but have there been any new bottled water companys in your area lately( such as dasani,ect)? It seems that there may be a slight connection on why some lakes seem to be lower while others(such as Erie) have had little change.

Good point, LordBaskettIV, we do have a company near us which draws from the aquifer, the underground water systems which are, imo, a seperate source from groundwater (to a degree, considering that rainfall does add to it).

But the company in the town of Teeswater is tiny in comparison to others drawing from springs further away. Overall, the amount of water being taken from this source is immense, as this 8 year old study confirms;

The fastest growing segment of the beverage industry is in the individual-size plastic bottles of water. Industry statistics for 1998 show sales of 996 billion gallons of water via these little bottles, representing 25 per cent of the total market, and reflecting an annual growth rate of 25 to 30 per cent. In dollars, bottled water sales in North America posted revenues of nearly $5 billion in 1998 -- not bad for an industry that was an infant 20 years ago.

LINK

...and that was 8 years ago. The strange thing is the lack of direct information available on the internet. A few PDF files and governmental hansard compilations which are so voluble it takes skilled skimming to pick out relevant bits.

What the contemporary figures would be for drawing water and selling it at a 'buck a bottle' (or more), I have no idea, but I'd like to find out.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Edit to add....

by V Kaminski

I've seen lower Lake levels in Lake Huron back in the mid-seventies but not by much...

Check out the tables in the link provided in my post previous the my last one...they show the Lake Huron/Michigan levels for an entire century. Especially note the levels for 1926 and 1964.

Good to see you posting again, V *waves*

[edit on 19-9-2006 by masqua]

I'll look around and see if I can find just how much water the local companys around here are pumping out....I know I saw numbers somewhere recently.

"My immediate guess would be a fall in water tables"

This is what I find to the most odd part. I live in an old house(80+ years old), and we get our water from a water pump and not the city water system(I live up on a giant sand dune along the shore). In the 80 years we have never had to dig deeper for lack of water(although pipes had been replaced). As far as I know, it just reaches the water table...is this different than the lake levels even though I'm in such close proximity to the lake? Also, wouldn't less water mean bigger beachs everywhere along the coast( mine has been shrinking for the last 10-15 years). In the 80's the beach was huge, but now the water is back where the seawalls that were constucted in the 40-50's are.

Originally posted by soficrow

Commission officials said they plan to investigate the Huron-Michigan water losses in the early years of a five-year look at policies governing lake levels. The $14.6 million study will start this spring if the U.S. and Canadian governments come up with the money.

This about sums it up....[a $14.6 million study]

the interested parties (i.e. everyone who derives their income & livelyhood)
from the academics or engineers to the tugboat captains, are in need of an injection of money....
and that $14.6 million which 'trickles' into the economy,
will procede with it's multiplier effect to keep the economic ball rolling

There is no problem with the variations of lake levels,
the real problem is that this natural occuring phenomena is touted as a
calamity-in-the-making- - - -and we citizenry need to Throw Money At The Problem




~imho~

There is no problem with the variations of lake levels,
the real problem is that this natural occuring phenomena is touted as a
calamity-in-the-making- - - -and we citizenry need to Throw Money At The Problem

Variaion is not a problem, please read this article though:

Huge pumps can draw as many as 400 gallons of water every minute from wells drilled by Nestle Waters North America Inc. in the rolling hills of north-central Michigan. The water, part of the complex hydrological system of the Great Lakes, fills the clear jugs and bottles of Nestle's Ice Mountain brand, found on supermarket shelves across the Midwest.

Late last year a trial court judge ordered Nestle to shut down its wells, finding that the wells are damaging the environment by lowering a nearby stream, lake and river that flow into Lake Michigan.

War over bottled water could leave many dry



So it appears to be nestle may be causing some problems here Michigan, and for the great lakes in general. At least we are actively adressing it though.

[edit on 21-9-2006 by LordBaskettIV]