A theory on the cycles of civilization

It seems to me as though the late ancient period and the middle ages saw a reconstruction of civilization. The old centers of civilization fell of and many of the less civilized tribes took over and built new centers of civilization. The barbarian germanic tribes in europe, the arabs from mainland arabia(saudi arabia), the turks, west africans, Mongolians, manchus and Japanese. I wanted to know what others thought of this. Is my theory correct or not? and is there any further opinion on it?

It also seems like civilization has continued to spread itself outward from ancient days. If we look at the most developed nations leading mankind their all at far corners of the globe and include many of those tribes. So will the old nations at the center of the earth ever regain their leadership or not?

Or are we about to witness something different, like a universal human civilization? A kind of golden age of peace, is this what the disruptions of 2000-2012 will lead to?

Will humanity ever live without empires? Or is this just the way things are?

[edit on 10-3-2006 by NeoQuest]

Civilizations generally rise and then fall through wars, corruption, and natural catastrophe. The one we are in is no different. Another will eventually replace it or it will be forced to dramatically change.

Empires cannot and do not survive in the long term. We live on a violent planet where most here are on a spiritually indifferent path of Service-To-Self (STS).

Fortunately, the Universe is extremely large and if this world is destroyed, there are many other planets to nurture Service-To-Other (STO) societies.

Viewing civilization on the macro scale, ever since I was a small kid i've had the strong belief that mankind had survived many cycles of 'death and rebirth' - basically the Phoenix concept which is an ancient mythological concept shared by multiple cultures around the world.

I've always suspected that Man has unconsciously resigned itself to this cycle due to human nature (greed, hate, jealousy, etc.) - repeatedly knocking ourselves back to square one of civilization soon after we reach that critical/deadly level of technological sophistication, then slowly and painfully rebuilding over a long period of time.

IF that's the case then we DESPERATELY need some intervention to break us out of the cycle (whether it's divine, E.T., interdimensional, or whatever) but I feel something must happen soon because we're near that point again.

Based on some posts i've read over time i'm sure some members on this board share a similar belief and urgency . It's obviously not dinnertime conversation but it's a strong belief i've unfortunately kept to myself.

Originally posted by AtlantisAgain
Viewing civilization on the macro scale, ever since I was a small kid i've had the strong belief that mankind had survived many cycles of 'death and rebirth' - basically the Phoenix concept which is an ancient mythological concept shared by multiple cultures around the world.

British author and journalist, Graham Hancock, also shares the view that humankind has had peaks and valleys of civilization and that as a whole we suffer from amnesia.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

- George Santayana

Originally posted by AtlantisAgain
I've always suspected that Man has unconsciously resigned itself to this cycle due to human nature (greed, hate, jealousy, etc.) - repeatedly knocking ourselves back to square one of civilization soon after we reach that critical/deadly level of technological sophistication, then slowly and painfully rebuilding over a long period of time.

IF that's the case then we DESPERATELY need some intervention to break us out of the cycle (whether it's divine, E.T., interdimensional, or whatever) but I feel something must happen soon because we're near that point again.

Based on some posts i've read over time i'm sure some members on this board share a similar belief and urgency . It's obviously not dinnertime conversation but it's a strong belief i've unfortunately kept to myself.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The time is ripe for a major change in a positive direction.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by AtlantisAgain
Viewing civilization on the macro scale, ever since I was a small kid i've had the strong belief that mankind had survived many cycles of 'death and rebirth' - basically the Phoenix concept which is an ancient mythological concept shared by multiple cultures around the world.

British author and journalist, Graham Hancock, also shares the view that humankind has had peaks and valleys of civilization and that as a whole we suffer from amnesia.



Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

- George Santayana

Originally posted by AtlantisAgain
I've always suspected that Man has unconsciously resigned itself to this cycle due to human nature (greed, hate, jealousy, etc.) - repeatedly knocking ourselves back to square one of civilization soon after we reach that critical/deadly level of technological sophistication, then slowly and painfully rebuilding over a long period of time.

IF that's the case then we DESPERATELY need some intervention to break us out of the cycle (whether it's divine, E.T., interdimensional, or whatever) but I feel something must happen soon because we're near that point again.

Based on some posts i've read over time i'm sure some members on this board share a similar belief and urgency . It's obviously not dinnertime conversation but it's a strong belief i've unfortunately kept to myself.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The time is ripe for a major change in a positive direction.

Cool.
I heard of him on some TV shows in the past but never read up on his views (i'm gonna check it out now).
I've always been fascinated by Native American (Hopi, Anasazi, etc.) prophecy and spirituality, and Greek and Egyptian mythology.

Here are a couple of links if interested...

www.v-j-enterprises.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

oops, forgot one more...

www.crystalinks.com...

Thanks for the links.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to check out The Mysterious Origins of Man.

What i find most interesting is the fact that much of Ancient India/perisa/etc is left out of Western History. The ancient indian vedics spoke of things that were trully beyond what we beleive to be thier technological level.

Ancient Manuscripts depeciting ancient space battle and the effects of a nuclear blast can be found in numerous museums in and around India, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. While I have no direct sources to prove this point the following link is a link to The Bridge built under the Great Lord Rama some 2 million years ago.

www.rootsweb.com...

Now....i know that i kind of strayed off topic alil.. The point of doing this is to illustrate that yes Civilization does rise and fall regardless of how techonologically advanced Mankind becomes, between ourselves and nature we gauruntee that another new civilization will someday rise.

I dont believe, however , that this is because we are a naturally evil, greedy, curropt, whatever adjective you want to use. I beleive that while there is great evil and distress in this world there is also balance to that effect....good people(s) who bring balance to the Universal Continum, excuse my chessiness. I think that it is possible that there will be some kind of change bettween now and 2012, however i do not believe that it will be the HUGE change that some believe it will be.

That being said in the grand scheme of things civilization just barely registers as a blip on the radar of time.

El senor pom pom rides again

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
What i find most interesting is the fact that much of Ancient India/Persia/etc is left out of Western History. The ancient indian Vedics spoke of things that were truly beyond what we believe to be their technological level.

Quite so.

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
Ancient Manuscripts depicting ancient space battle and the effects of a nuclear blast can be found in numerous museums in and around India, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia. While I have no direct sources to prove this point the following link is a link to The Bridge built under the Great Lord Rama some 2 million years ago.

www.rootsweb.com...

Good pics.

Here is a two part article that mentions ancient India and provides evidence that nuclear weapons were used thousands of years ago.

The Evidence for Ancient Atomic Warfare

I quote a section from Part 2:

Originally posted by AtlantisAgain
I've always suspected that Man has unconsciously resigned itself to this cycle due to human nature (greed, hate, jealousy, etc.) - repeatedly knocking ourselves back to square one of civilization soon after we reach that critical/deadly level of technological sophistication, then slowly and painfully rebuilding over a long period of time.

IF that's the case then we DESPERATELY need some intervention to break us out of the cycle (whether it's divine, E.T., interdimensional, or whatever) but I feel something must happen soon because we're near that point again.

I agree with a whole bunch of this. However, look closely...the technology becomes a bit more advanced...knowledge expands a bit more...Maybe intervention is not what we need but, simply experience? Once a child starts riding a bike, you don't throw the training wheels back on every time they fall off. You put the child back on the bike and they start pedaling again.

Please don't discount humanity's ability to 'figure it out'. Maybe we don't need some kind of intervention, but a lot of painful trial and error.

Consider the possibility that its a cop-out to look for outside help. I'm convinced it is within our species capabilities to get it right.

NC

[edit on 18-3-2006 by NotClever]

Originally posted by NeoQuest
It seems to me as though the late ancient period and the middle ages saw a reconstruction of civilization.

For europe, yes, the europeans had to emerge from a realtively uncivilized dark age. However, keep in mind, the dark age refers to the lack of written evidence from that time, and a relative lack of archaeological evidence, but people didn't live in caves and abandon all the cities.

Is my theory correct or not?

It seems relatively correct. Not sure that this is a conspiracy theory no? and is there any further opinion on it?
You can also find that greek and medetereanan civilization went through a collapse from a civilized height at the end of the bronze age, it affected some areas worse than others. Sometimes its called the "Bronze Age Systems Collapse". That'd be a term worthwhile googling. Also notice that the Harrapan civilization seems to have crumbled apart, whether because of invadian iranians or internal problems, who knows. Also notice that the toltecs in mexico abandoned their cities, only for a later tribe to find all that lost knowledge and re-establish a civilization upon its ruins.

So will the old nations at the center of the earth ever regain their leadership or not?

You mean like iraq and egypt and the indus valley? And crete?
Doubtful that they'll be major powers.

Or are we about to witness something different, like a universal human civilization?

Consider that global trade now is only just starting to reach pre-WWII levels. This could be seen as another cycle of rebuilding. Things looked promising from some perspectives pre-wwii, but then it all went to poo, so who knows? A big difference now is that the world is basically uni-polar, whereas back then there were multiple great global powers, both in terms of nations (britain, the US, germany, russia, japan) and ideologies (capitalism, colonialism, nativism, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, etc etc).

Here's what I learned in my college class on ancient Chinese history. The same thing happened over and over there, leading one to believe that perhaps our innate human behavior is responsible. Here is the cycle of history. Try to figure out where we are at this time.

1) Small tribes organize themselves into larger tribes.
2) Larger tribes are consolidated into "states" under a single leader.
3) These larger states battle each other for scarce resources.
4) An extraordinary leader crushes his enemies and creates an empire.
5) The empire consolidates, organizes taxes, currency, public works, education, etc.
6) To finance the growth, taxes are increased, explorers and armies are sent to conquer new lands.
7) Bureaucracy and taxes increase, become a burden on the citizens.
8) Citizens resort to banditry and crime.
9) Crime and wars increase while fewer people (including religions) pay taxes.
10) Distant states declare independence from the empire.
11) More war, fewer taxes push the government to the breaking point.
12) The empire crumbles, splits into different smaller states and outlaw tribes.
13) The entire cycle starts all over again.

This is the way of the world.