Russian Stealth technology

Stealth technology
look at the new ver of the SU-27,Su-35 etc.
do they use Stealth technology ?
will we SU_27 go Stealth
could they put the tech from the Su-47 and put in su-27

and why are there not as many ver of the F-15?

Although this isn't steam, I still think this flash video applies.

www.albinoblacksheep.com...

[edit on 9-3-2006 by arkansasmedic]

Well the SU-47 clearly seemed to have some stealth aspects too it. The thing about western stealth is its ultra expensive. Russia has plans for alot of stealthy planes but I dont know of any ever put into production.

Most of the buzz about Russian stealth focuses on the infamous "Plasma Stealth" Plasma stealth could work in theory even the West is looking into it and tested it but their are some huge techincal problems to over come if you wanted it to work practically on a plane.

Even then a plasma steath plane would still be like a flying neon sign in the night

No aircraft currently flying is known to use this technology.

They probably have some form of stealth technology. They probably just aren't spreading it around( the US kept the F 117 secret for years, why wouldn't they do the same).

Russia never thought of Stealth. It is commonly known that the idea for stealth came from a Russian paper on how radar waves deflect on surfaces, that engineers at LM used to build Blue Have...

The only Russian plane that has shown some kind of Stealth was the SU-47 Berkut. It was covered with Radar absorbent materials (RAM). The design itself was not stealthy.
This design got a lot of downplaying because they argue that RAM surfaces require a lot of maintenance and that Russia could not give such a maintenance to the planes from an economical and even a cultural standpoint.

I once saw a photo of a Russian UAV that uses stealth technology but it was only a mockup...

BTW I found a page that states that the SU-47 uses P&W engines is that true?



link

[edit on 9-3-2006 by carcharodon]

Originally posted by carcharodon
The only Russian plane that has shown some kind of Stealth was the SU-43 Berkut. It was covered with Radar absorbent materials (RAM). The design itself was not stealthy.
link

They clearly had stealthy design aspects beyond RAM in the SU-47. The rotary internal weapon bay for example.

This is a very smart thing to do for stealth fighters and its why the F-22 and JSF both use internal weapon bays.

Originally posted by carcharodon
Russia never thought of Stealth. It is commonly known that the idea for stealth came from a Russian paper on how radar waves deflect on surfaces, that engineers at LM used to build Blue Have...

I have read somewhere in the past it was considered in the past, before the F-117 was public, but with the then knowledge of low frequency radar making it extremely unlikely to be of use tactically and their doubts over achievable manufacturing tolerances they didn't go down that route, and instead went for manouverability. The Kirov is meant to have a very low radar return for its size - indicating the Russians did indeed know how to "do stealth".


Lets face it, I'm quite sure both sides had been considering the idea long before they convinced the decision makers to actually give it a try. We'll never know who thought about it first, but we know for sure the US implemented it first.



Obviously, with the R & D route pursued with the MFI and PAK projects, their earlier position on low observables was revised somewhat, and it must be concluded they did/do believe that Stealth has its merits and justifies the expenditure.





Oh, and the latest (well, last they'll make) Flanker variant - the terminator, has numerous treatments incorporated to reduce the frontal RCS as much as is viable.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by kilcoo316]

kilcoo:

What I meant was although I'm sure Russia did consider it theoretically they never considered as a actual technology that would be able to be developed. I attribute this to their lack of computer power and maybe a bit of imagination. Reducing a cross-section is common sense, it might be the first step but that is not stealth.

And about why he are not many variants of the F-15, well because the US has the money to develop new planes. Remember the F-15 ACTIVE? That plane has canards and even was fitted with Vector engines...
F-15 ACTIVE

The US decided instead of continuously upgrading aircraft to build a new one that incorporated stealth technology hence the competition between the YF-22 and the YF-23...

Thats what I'm saying - I read somewhere they had considered the application of it to aircraft, but deemed it non feasible.


Considering they used it on the Kirov, they obviously did know how to do it.

if they make stelath im guessing its plasma Us engineers are alo interested in it its going under university testing when its feasible the Us might use it as a supplement to normal stealth fighter,bobmbers and UCAVs/UAVS

Well, despite internal rotary weapon's bays being good for stealth, they're also good for flight overall, the less big bulky objects dangling from the fuselage, the less drag there is, which in turn equals more manueverability.

I think the Su-47 aims more at super manuverability than it does stealth features.

As for the F-15 ACTIVE, that was just a demonstrator of technology just like the F/A-18 HARV. They were technology demonstrators and nothing more, will never be anything more.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 11-3-2006 by ShatteredSkies]

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Well, despite internal rotary weapon's bays being good for stealth, they're also good for flight overall, the less big bulky objects dangling from the fuselage, the less drag there is, which in turn equals more manueverability.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by ShatteredSkies]

But you also have to take into account internal weapon bays make it more complex and more things can then go wrong. It also limits the amount of weapons and extra fuel you can carry. These are some pretty big trade offs you have to make. Im not even sure if the SU-47 had any external mount points

Even the Typhoon with great manoverability decided against them

I could be wrong but I dont know of any fighter that use internal weapon bays that wasnt designed with stealth in mind from the get go.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
Well, despite internal rotary weapon's bays being good for stealth, they're also good for flight overall, the less big bulky objects dangling from the fuselage, the less drag there is, which in turn equals more manueverability.

I think the Su-47 aims more at super manuverability than it does stealth features.

As for the F-15 ACTIVE, that was just a demonstrator of technology just like the F/A-18 HARV. They were technology demonstrators and nothing more, will never be anything more.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 11-3-2006 by ShatteredSkies]

Indeed. But if the US had followed the same path as Russian with the SU-27 instead of building a new plane, that is how the 'New' F-15 might have look like... For the US was as you said a technology demostrator, but for Russia the inspiration for all their new Su-27/32, 35... variants

"For the US was as you said a technology demostrator, but for Russia the inspiration for all their new Su-27/32, 35... variants"

Just plain wrong. SU-27/MiG-29 airframes have nothing in common with F-15.

A common misconception easily fixed by a quick look on google.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

I could be wrong but I dont know of any fighter that use internal weapon bays that wasnt designed with stealth in mind from the get go.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

How about the Convair F-102?

Russia had done their own research and development in Thrust Vectoring, to say that the Demonstrators F-15 ACTIVE and F/A-18 HARV had any effect on the Russian Variant designs would be some what misplaced, although they might have some influence, I wasn't there in the design room.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by iskander
"For the US was as you said a technology demostrator, but for Russia the inspiration for all their new Su-27/32, 35... variants"

Just plain wrong. SU-27/MiG-29 airframes have nothing in common with F-15.

A common misconception easily fixed by a quick look on google.

He could actually be right, by which I mean the manner of the conversion of the F-15 ACTIVE may have inspired the same conversion in the Flanker. Maybe they took the idea, rather than the design?

Which may be what carcharodon meant in the first place anyway.

[edit on 16-3-2006 by waynos]

Thank you Waynos that is what I meant. Its not that they copied the plane per se, but rather the concept of taking an existing frame and modifying it adding improvements such as vector thrust and canards.

I guess Russians saw this as a middle way since they couldn't afford a new plane, but they could not remained still either.

Originally posted by carcharodon
Russia never thought of Stealth. It is commonly known that the idea for stealth came from a Russian paper on how radar waves deflect on surfaces, that engineers at LM used to build Blue Have...

The only Russian plane that has shown some kind of Stealth was the SU-47 Berkut. It was covered with Radar absorbent materials (RAM). The design itself was not stealthy.
This design got a lot of downplaying because they argue that RAM surfaces require a lot of maintenance and that Russia could not give such a maintenance to the planes from an economical and even a cultural standpoint.

I once saw a photo of a Russian UAV that uses stealth technology but it was only a mockup...

BTW I found a page that states that the SU-47 uses P&W engines is that true?



link

[edit on 9-3-2006 by carcharodon]

thats not true stealth idea actually came from the Nazi's when they where developing a rounded flying saucer shaped aircraft the allies and everybody prett much ransacked nazi science after the war including both americans and russians/soviets they also took engineers back to there country along with thing such as missiles like the V2 and event he V1 anyway the nazis actually came up with the idea we just evolved the ideas even further when more and more science became available.

Originally posted by youngiceman87
Stealth technology
look at the new ver of the SU-27,Su-35 etc.
do they use Stealth technology ?
will we SU_27 go Stealth
could they put the tech from the Su-47 and put in su-27

and why are there not as many ver of the F-15?

i would like to point out a few things in general russia has been right upto date witht he west in everything including topol-m,s-37/su-47,mig-1.42/1.44, kornet,iskander,sa-18 igla, ?black eagle? tank etc............

it would be foolish to assume they dont have anything to match stealth fighers or that only america is capable of creating such a thing.

russia currently is trying to clear all forign debt that it has if people check russian news russia is paying back all its world debt at record pace it wants to be debt free in the next decade or so and its using its growing economy and the current high oil prices to its advantage to rapidly pay back what it owes. the point of this is russia is not wasting its money on stuff that is not urgent right now and in reality stealth aircraft are not needed becuase lets face the fact nobody in todays climate of politics is even stupid enough to lauch a war against russia.

i have absolutly no dought that after russia clears its debt that russia will pull out some new toys for its millitry. think about it russia has been upto date with everything including tanks,aircraft,anti-ship cruise missiles, ATGM, sams like s-300/s-400 and igla sa-18 etc... but some stuff they havent put into full production even though they can like the su-47/s-37 they already have a full version of it whats stopping them from putting it into full production? they have the technology but they dont have the money right now to make it but they will have plenty of money once they clear there debt off.

russia is in my opinion in possession of stealth or has a full functioning prototype of a stealth aircraft that is ready to go into full scale production the only thing that is stopping them is the money.