For all you 'conservation of energy hard heads'. :)

Just stumbled across this:

www.livescience.com...

Source: www.livescience.com...

"One thing that puzzles scientists is that the high temperature was achieved after the plasma’s ions should have been losing energy and cooling. Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in, something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions."

Sooo, it's not a nuclear reaction yet it's releasing more energy than was put in???


I've always been fascinated with plasma physics and this definitely qualifys as a little more than intriguing.


Wonder how long it will be before this 'little' discovery vanishes.

[edit on 9-3-2006 by TxSecret]

Batteries put out more energy than they take in. Well, the energy they put out is actually the conversion of chemical energy to electrical energy. In this plasma experiment, some sort of energy was converted into heat for these people.

Keep in mind that these people had NO idea of the actual reaction they performed.

They don't know how they did it.

Just because we don't know why something happened does not mean that the current laws of physics have been broken.

Sandia consultant Malcolm Haines theorizes that some unknown energy source is involved

There are many factors that need to be considered, most of which would not be discussed on a website like this. One possibility is that the machine is improperly calibrated. Another is that the data obtained goes beyond the instruments limit of detection, which could result in outrageous inaccuracies in measurements.

Suppose that all of their instruments are just fine. the notion of quantum mechanics and relativism could be a HUGE factor.

Also, when the high temperature was achieved, the Z machine was releasing more energy than was originally put in,

***something that usually occurs only in nuclear reactions.***

Energy conservation applies in quantum mechanics and relativism (which encompass nuclear reaction), but with different rules. Plasma is an odd little phenomenon, and the experiment they performed may have had some sort of nuclear or quantum mechanical reaction.

No conclusion has been made about this experiment. All they know is WHAT happened, but not WHY. So far, every discovery made in physics has only gone on to further support the law of the conservation of energy.

Once these people actually report their information to a reliable scientific source, such as the American Journal of Physics or any other scientific peer-reviewed journal, then we can pass judgement on the results.

Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama

Plasma is an odd little phenomenon, and the experiment they performed may have had some sort of nuclear or quantum mechanical reaction.

Thank you.. I rest my case.. (kidding)

You mention batteries putting out more energy than coming in, I don't dispute this but we have a MUCH better idea where the 'extra' energy came from in 'that' case. Regarding this plasma ball? Now THAT'S a mystery. In case you want to refute that, I refer you back to what you yourself said..

"Plasma is an odd little phenomenon"

Indeed it is.

Once these people actually report their information to a reliable scientific source, such as the American Journal of Physics or any other scientific peer-reviewed journal, then we can pass judgement on the results.

Agreed.. I'll be keeping an eye on this. Although you seem to be implying that livescience.com to be a little less that reputable, I don't think this is the case.





[edit on 9-3-2006 by TxSecret]

You know, what is cool about this experiment is that the more oddities that we discover in our search, the better picture we get of the whole thing.

After all, the vast majority of extremely important discoveries come from mistakes. Stainless steel for example.

Who knows, maybe these folks actually stumbled upon the next big leap in physical phenomena. Like the jump from classical mechanics to quantum mechanics. Maybe this will be a big jump from quantum mechanics to... whatever else there is.

That String Theory needs a bunch of answers filled. Maybe someone can get some data from this or other experiments to fill in some gaps to help towards a central unifying theory.

Of course that is an ambitious hope, but what the heck, eh?

Even if it's explainable who knows if they can harness this excess this early in the game?

I am excited sheerly because of the pace I see these new oddities cropping up. One of these days we'll find a useable one, if not today then we are one oddity closer to a new breakthrough.

CHEERS to the sandia boys and girls

We don't know wether a Nuclear reaction took place or not. My bet is that yes, a reaction did take place as the Z machine is capable of such a feat. Just because that was not their goal in this particular experiment, doesn't mean that's not what happened. They could have inadvertantly discovered another method of fusion. Though it wasn't sustained unfortunately. Lasted nanoseconds.

And the law is called "Conservation of Mass". All the Reactants must equal all of the products!

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

TANSTAAFL

It's Grade 10 Science. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet all these "Free Energy" folks, don't seem to grasp the fact that you can't get something from nothing.

[edit on 10-3-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama
Batteries put out more energy than they take in. Well, the energy they put out is actually the conversion of chemical energy to electrical energy. In this plasma experiment, some sort of energy was converted into heat for these people.

The question is wether we had to "pay" for the energy that we did not observe before.

Just because we don't know why something happened does not mean that the current laws of physics have been broken.

'Laws' of physics can only be disproved; never broken.

There are many factors that need to be considered, most of which would not be discussed on a website like this. One possibility is that the machine is improperly calibrated. Another is that the data obtained goes beyond the instruments limit of detection, which could result in outrageous inaccuracies in measurements.

So basically without knowing anything about the experiment your just assuming that we either can not make sense of it or that it just makes no sense. Did i get that right?

Suppose that all of their instruments are just fine. the notion of quantum mechanics and relativism could be a HUGE factor.

Do clarify what you mean here as what your currently admitting to is agreeing that that the earth is probably round.

Energy conservation applies in quantum mechanics and relativism (which encompass nuclear reaction), but with different rules. Plasma is an odd little phenomenon, and the experiment they performed may have had some sort of nuclear or quantum mechanical reaction.

Energy conservation is kinda meaningless as it only apllies to closed system. The only natural closed system we are currently contemplating is the universe itself and that is not certainty. Plasma, as fourth state of matter, is odd how? Some sort of nuclear quantum mechanical reaction?

No conclusion has been made about this experiment. All they know is WHAT happened, but not WHY. So far, every discovery made in physics has only gone on to further support the law of the conservation of energy.

No evidence we have ever had supports the conservation of energy in anything but hypothetical closed systems. If we could find one we might very well be able to test the theory but untill then it's damn meaningless and it always has been.

Once these people actually report their information to a reliable scientific source, such as the American Journal of Physics or any other scientific peer-reviewed journal, then we can pass judgement on the results.

Well thanks for your amazing contribution here.

Stellar

Originally posted by sardion2000
We don't know wether a Nuclear reaction took place or not. My bet is that yes, a reaction did take place as the Z machine is capable of such a feat. Just because that was not their goal in this particular experiment, doesn't mean that's not what happened.

Oh so a 'reaction' took place?

They could have inadvertantly discovered another method of fusion. Though it wasn't sustained unfortunately. Lasted nanoseconds.

We allready know of alternate methods of creation fusion reactions so what's new about yet another one?

And the law is called "Conservation of Mass". All the Reactants must equal all of the products!

Complete bunk as i have showed you before. It is only so in totally closed systems non of which has ever been found in nature or in a university lab.

There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

TANSTAAFL

"The universe is the ultimate free lunch?" Ever heard of that one and if you did did you think he was joking? Just because humanity has been led around by the nose due to massive scientific fraud does not mean that meal is not around and not still rotting to complete waste.

It's Grade 10 Science. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet all these "Free Energy" folks, don't seem to grasp the fact that you can't get something from nothing.

YOu can't get something from nothing but you can tap energy in ways that were not employed before. What do you know about grade ten science anyways sardion?

Stellar