Who pays more?

Im going out with a girl, who thinks that the guy should always pay more whenever we go out. For the dinner, for the drinks, for coffee, for parking, for the movies. Why do some girls still think like this? Shouldnt it always be 50/50 when it comes to paying for things? What is wrong with equality when it comes to the sexes?

I think like me at one time you got a huge dose of dumbness through socializing and public education.

The concept of 50/50 is one of the dumbest things ever sold to a dumb ignorant , unperceptive group of men ever devised by a decietful human nature.
In or out of marriage 50/50 is just plain stupid. Wise up and throw that stupidity out the window...right now!!! Grow up while you are at it Croatian Guy.

Remember something about women...from young ages to olde ages....Women can count...faster and more effeciently than a man..by far. Only a man can be this stupid and survive while not knowing the difference. Women will never survive on this category of stupid..this is why most are naturally more subtle than a man...it is easier to maneuver ignorance this way.

Croatian Guy...its 100/100 percent..not 50/50. Only social dumbing down of men can get a guy this dumb such that he doest know the difference.
Any woman who gets only 50% will quickly wonder what you are doing with the other 50% and figure out a way to get ahold of that too. She may keep back 50% and never let you know it...and most likely because of subtilty and stupidity you wont ever figure it out. Not so with a woman..they are mostly smarter than that . Men are the dumb ones here.

Get out of that 50/50% mentality. Throw it out the window. Its stupid...beyond stuipd...way beyond stuipd..only a man can be this dumb and survive. Women are by their subtilty and natures smarter than this.

When you deal with a woman who trys that 50/50 dumbness on you correct her quickly. And dont you do that 50/50% stuff either. She needs to be giving you 100%. And it needs to be someting other than what you can provide for yourself. After all if you can provide it for yourself or go out and get it yourself ..what do you need her for??? Think Croatian Guy..dont just emote...otherwise you are just like alot of women...all emotions..no thinking.

All that stuff about you paying more for dinner ...trips etc etc..etc..is a effort to measure your worth or value to her in the marketplace by trying out for her approval ...as a source of potential for her. Demonstrating your social value to her by a social format...preconditioned by her. Never do most women want you to be examining their potential or value in the marketplace outside of what they want you to know or see. By requiring 100% from them in a arena which benifits you ..you can now examine her potential. And I dont mean in the sexual/beauty arena. If this is all a woman has ..she has nothing.
Women will often work in the implicit ..when it comes to themselves...not in the explict as they apply it to men and thier potential.

Implicit....by words..by expectations..by subtilty..by assumption. by suggestion.

Explicit....fully revealed..fully expressed..not suggested..but clear.not assumed..but made exact. Leaving no question.

They are measuring your potential Croatian guy. You need to get out of that 50/50% ignorance so that you can measure her real potential ....outside of what they really want to show you..or let you see...understand?? Wake up.!!

I am not against a guy having potential...or demonstrating his potential..but dont be ignorant of her potential..understand..dont be stupid here about the nature of what is going on.

This is post 1990s...women are doing everything men are doing and doing a better job than men...start expecting it.

Dont let them get by you on implicitness..this is a formula for freebees and male disposability and expendability....make them explicit..and expect from them explicitly.. Above all ...get out of that 50/50% dumbness. Its 100/100%.

Thanks,
Orangetom

It depends croatianguy, are you going out with her just as friends or is there a romantic interest? If you're trying to get with her then I recommend that you suck it up and pay. That's what a man does. I couldn't have imagined making my g/f pay for anything when we were first going out. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm old-fashioned.

That being said, if you feel that you're being taken advantage of, then maybe she's not for you.

Peace

Might as well start paying now.

Get used to it, once you're married, you'll be paying for the rest of your life
anyway!

Consider it "practice"..

50/50 is like communism dude, nice in theory, awful in practice..

cough up the fibre and have a good time (you think she finds cosmetics and perfume cheap? hell no! check the prices.. do you think you should foot half the bill for her to look good for you? trust me, you are on the better side of the fence.

Originally posted by croatianguy
What is wrong with equality when it comes to the sexes?

People only promote equality when it works in their favor.

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by croatianguy
What is wrong with equality when it comes to the sexes?

People only promote equality when it works in their favor.

Yeah, especially since croatianguy has a little less than an equal view in this thread he started right here

Anyways, I personally don't measure a guys worth by how much he offers to pay for things, although I understand that a lot of women do. I don't like the 50/50 in the way that you split the check right down the middle. But you know, sometimes when we go out, my man pays, and sometimes I pay.

I actually like paying for dates. I admit it makes me feel a slight bit of empowerment. However I feel guilty when the man pays all the time. Someone told me once that the person who invites or asks the other out should be the one to pay. That makes sense to me.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by snowflake_obsidian]

:shk:

croatianguy allow me to stand up and say, I got your back on this one.

Who the hell are all you guys dating to bash him like that? I really would not want to meet them.

The concept of 50/50 is one of the dumbest things ever sold to a dumb ignorant , unperceptive group of men ever devised by a decietful human nature.
In or out of marriage 50/50 is just plain stupid. Wise up and throw that stupidity out the window...right now!!! Grow up while you are at it Croatian Guy.

I actually think its a perfect fit for a relatonship. I live with my girlfriend and we split everything. Rent, bills, groceries you name it. When we go out in the night I will pay for everything, but their are times when she will put money up as well. So like dinner and a movie is not 50/50 but for all our bills and responsibilities it is.

Women these days are making no less money then men, why should we pay for everything. Early in the relationship, yes a guy should pay for it all. But when it becomes a serious relationship, than no he should not.

By the sounds of this, I'll hold on tight to my girlfriend.

Women are meant to be admired for their beauty - not for their sense of humor.

After reading this comment, I retract the comment of having your back.. Your on your own.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by chissler]

chissler,

I'll cover your back on this one.

As for the 50/50, Yes. Once you are in an established relationship with open communication and all socially perceived obligations removed. However, during the early stages of meeting, greeting, dating and all ...

Court the lady! ... if you see her as such.

Just my $.02 ... wait make that $.01*
*you think I'm paying for everything?!

[edit:?sp]

[edit on 3/14/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

I agree completely.

Early in the relationship you should be willing to foot the bill for everything. I just don't like the notion that a guy is supposed to pony up for everything even after its established that this is going to go somewhere.

You posted:"What is wrong with equality when it comes to the sexes?"

What possesses you to think that women are intrested in Equality..especially in social roles and expectations??? Most women are intrested in some variation of "Options". Get a clue.!! Social Options!! This has nothing to do with equality....at all. Just like 50/50 has nothing to do with equality. The point most men are to dumb to recognize is what "Options" of real value is she bringing you???? Got it. If she is not willing to pay..what does she have??? No rocket material needed here. Think it through..carefully.

I agree somewhat with Chissler...women are making no less than are we..why should we pay for everything?? Not a unreasonable question or expectation.

I like Jonna's statement about people promoting equality when it works on ones favor...well said Jonna. I just dont particularly like a entitlement mentality ..either way.

Watch Spacedoubt.."Get used to it, once you're married, you'll be paying for the rest of your life
anyway!

Consider it "practice"..
Translate this..statement...get used to being expendable and disposable in the roles automatically predetermined for you socially. Consider it practice for you to be this dumb, disposable, and expendable. You need to be properly trained for this role!!

Wake up Croatian Guy.

Thanks to all,
Orangetom

Ive been going out with her for six years. Is this an old fashioned attitude to have? Im sure girls under 30 dont have this expectation anymore. Do I just happen to be going out with a girl that is in the minority with this view? I wouldnt know cause I havent dated another girl. Am I getting the wrong end of the stick? I know that she loves me, but then she uses the phrase "If you love me, then you would spoil me like other guys do to their partners."

Read your first post again..then look at your second post...just before this one.
Lots of girls have this attitude ..women too. Even those under thirty.

What you have is a insecure woman who is giving you clues and cues to perform up to her mark. She is willing to change the level you need to perform by stating ....."If you love me you will spoil me like other guys do to their partners."
Wake up. I have had many women do this ....Stupid stuff like..." why cant you be more like that guy in that movie??" Or the guy in the romance novel. Very pubescent of them.

Ok ..so you spoil her....what then?? ...what is next..on the spoiling/expectations list for you to do to try out for her approval??? This ...croatian guy is called "Trying out for approval" sort of like tryouts at the baseball team...to see if you measure up.

My main point is what are you getting for all this "trying out ??"
Are you getting more or just the same olde stuff packaged differently?? Think it through.

Also...think further than what she is telling you. You say you have gone with her for six years. Dont you think she is trying to maneuver you by subtilty to more and higher levels of commitment??? THe highest she can get from your time and labor.

Do I need to spell it out for you ...how to pyramid dating ...for six years into house payments, insurance payments , car payments , health plans,retirement plans,vacations, etc etc etc...in other words marriage. So the question for you if this is the direction she is leading you ..but wont tell you directly ...is.....what is she giving you more of ..for what she wants from you ..or is it the same olde stuff.??? What is she giving you that you cant bet more or better from another woman..or wont want from another woman because she is so valuable to you ..that she has put you on a drug....her!!!!! She is the drug you cant do without??? Is this true??

REmember something Croatian Guy...if you have been seeing this woman for six years...tick tick tick..the clock it ticking ...she is already half way through the "best years of her life." ..HOw dare you not pay full price?? You owe it to her by default. You dont seem to be properly trained as of yet. You are just not properly picking up on her clues and cues to perform correctly.
I got news for you Croatian guy.. a woman who loves you ..would not put such pressure on you by comparing your performance level to other men..this is cheap maneuvering. This is right out of a Cosmopolitan or Elle or Redbook Quiz. I suggest you pick up some of these womens magazines from the drug store or wally world and read them ..then take the quizzes. WAke up. You might try reading some romance novels to see what strategems they are feeding these women..same with the quizzes.
Be ready for this woman to drop you when she doesnt get the results for which she is coaching you. Also if she is coaching you ..do you really think she loves and respects you if your thoughts and performance levels are really her idea.?? Think it through further than what she says. Think Croatian guy..do not emote..think.
Some people would disagree croatian guy but a woman who coachs a guy to get the results she wants doesnt respect a man but finds him useful for her purposes. Like a new handbag or a new pair of shoes to go along with the new outfit she also gets him to get for her. She just finds him handy. Better than no guy at all. Think it through.

Thanks,
Orangetom

I would suggest you date other women to find out if there are differences.
You might try some older women too..just to get a good cross section.
Just be careful. .it can be a mine field out there. Just dont put up with stupid stuff like you seem to be doing without knowing the difference.

Thanks,
Orangetom

if you dont like her saying such stupid stuff..like "If you love me you would be spoling me like other guys spoil thier partners." Tell her point blank you dont like it or apprreciate this type of cheap conduct and expect better from her than just her ego needs. If this is the best she can do in dating ..what would she be willing to do in marriage to up the bar on you further??? A woman who uses this type of cheap strategem..will make you expendable and disposable for what she wants or thinks she deserves....for that to which she thinks she is entitled..in dating or marriage..got it yet???? Croatian Guy???

Hit her with it point blank. She may not like it ...but she will respect it unless she is just a user. IF she is just a user..she will never get it. IF this is so you need to get rid of her or get her to get rid of you...and she will. Problem solved either way.
Think croatian guy..dont just emote.

Thanks,
Orangetom

orangetom1999, lay off the guy a little! :bash:

Croat, personally, I can't fathom splitting a check on a date. From my perspective, looking at the check to see how much you owe and how much she owes is telling her, "yeah, you're great and all, but this $12 (or $60-$100 if you're a bit older...siiiigh) is really important to me, too, and I'd like it back." Don't split checks. I've been on dates where the woman has taken the check and paid for it, but never, never, never would I ever think of splitting it. Either I'm going to take it or she is, and I usually initiate grabbing the check unless she has said something saying she's treating (in which case, don't grab the check. Very rude, condescending, and, well, it sets precedent ).

As to comments like "If you love me you would be spoiling me like other guys spoil their partners.", they're a big pet peeve of mine. She'll get one, maybe two warnings in the form of, "and if you loved me there wouldn't be conditions on it" -- not in a joking manner. The joking manner makes it appear as though it was...a joke. Not a warning

However, since you've been seeing her for so long and have been accepting it in the past, that would be horribly unfair. It might be that you'll have to have one of those State of the Union talks with her and bring that up. Depending on her personality, you could explain to her exactly how those statements make you feel, or just tell her she needs to stop telling you what you would do if you loved her since you know better than she what you would do if you loved her, but instead she needs come to out and tell you what is really on her mind. Or get better advice...This paragraph comes more from books than experience

What I post comes from experience. I have told several women point blank.

"I am not a disposable and expendable commodity for you in the marketplace so that you can raise your value to yourself and among your girlfriends". "Dont maneuver me thusly so as to take me for granted".

IN case you miss the concept..this is called being Salty. Not being sugary.
The Salt of the Earth. Not the sugar.

It doesnt bother me to be dumped by a woman like this at all. Croatian Guys problem is the one I used to have ..this is how I know. I used to put up with alot of this maneuvering. I used to back up for it and try out for approval. Often to the point of ignorance or dumbness.

You stand your ground and a real woman will respect you ...you dont and she will often repeat the process for more goodies or position/power. Notice the term .."real woman" not psuedo woman.

This also pre supposes that Croatian Guy is a real man and knows the difference. I agree with you in that six years is a long time to put up with this kind of stuff...for both of them. I dont think Croatian Guy thinks much about other than just "getting along" His problem is that he is a "nice guy" not Salty ..but sugary. Obviously this woman is not intrested in a nice guy per se..but is trying to change him to her expectations. Obviously Croatian Guy knows little if anything about Salt. In six years he has never considered this angle?? What has he been thinking about......sports? Cheerleaders?? I agree he has been accepting this conduct ..both on his side and hers. He needs to think further than the standard settings on the dial.

I dont have a problem paying for dinner...I also dont have a probem with the woman paying for dinner. I dont offer to split the check either. I do have a problem with women who use such shallow ignorant maneuvering techniques to raise the bar on me with the expectations that I perform more for thier approval. Unless a woman has something really really valuable to offer me..I am not intrested in substituting her value system for mine. Beauty and Sex/sexuality or the girl stuff religion are not the correct offer. Understand??

Thanks for your post Jake,
Orangetom

Hi All,

Okay Im a woman, and I would like to explain why I would expect a man to foot the bill early in our relationship.

I like generous people, I am very generous myself, if a man on a date asked for half the bill I would never see him again, THE END.

I would have alarm bells ringing regarding his personality.

When we go out with friends we tend to take relaxed turns to buy each other drinks, we don't keep tally, normally just whoever gets to the bar first.

I'm not concerned over my stand with this, I have been happily married for 13 years, have lots of friends and am very generous and in return get lots back.

A man paying would be proof to me that he can be generous, a quality important to me, (if he winced while paying I may have to rethink though)

Red Dragon,

I like generous women too. Problem is they are not often generous with something I cannot acquire on my own or somewhere else.

Also ..socially ..generousness in women is often very different from in men. Not the same or for the same reasons. Most men have great difficulty with vocalizing this concept.
I dont go along with alot of trying out by generosity for approval. Its to much like trying out for approval. Like trying out for a job. A career opportunity. A baseball team. You know ..tryouts.

When I speak of this to different women..they look at me like...Boy....is you crazy??"

I too am not concerned over my stand on this. It weeds out alot of wildlife very quickly. High maintenance ones too. Very important to me.

A woman who understands that I am not a expendable disposable commodity in the marketplace and that my settings dont need to be changed to hers as a career opportunity is very important to me. She too can take equal risk in many things. Not just dinner. If she winces at this ..its a good indicator that she many be high maintenance/low potential.
Not difficult to find women like this..they are everywhere. It would raise alarm bells to me about thier personality and real potential.

A woman who can see this and be generous in areas I lack ..is a rare commodity in the marketplace indeed..like a fine wine..a beautiful strand of pearls. Not just the areas she is intrested in ..understand?? This would be proof she is not just a trophy woman ..high maintenance.
Dont worry..the bulk of men out here ..cannot grasp this concept..to much trying out for approval....its a good thing too..for most women.


Thanks,
Orangetom

Hi Orangetom,

The thing that worries me about your post is that you make the high maintenance = low potential equation.

You see if I was to put myself in a category I would have to say Im high maintenance but would definately not equal this to low potential.

Surely the women you speak of are low maintenance, i.e. they are so busy preening themselves that you don't need to spend the time to impress them, just throw in the cash.

I'm high maintenance in the way in which I push myself and my husband improve, as parents, friends, spiritually, emotionaly, before you ask my husband constantly thanks me for this, he is a sucessful business man and I'm lucky that he offers me a great deal of credit for him being able to persue a career he loves.

You see, I'm a very honest person, you agree that women should be generous in an area which you would like it, when it comes to money i like my husband to be generous, he knows this Im honest about it, believe me there have been times when we can not afford to eat and this means nothing to me, when we have no money we share what we have got, and when we have money we share, thats they way it goes.

Be careful that you don't miss out on your soulmate because you think that she is low potential, maybe what you need is good old high maintenance girl.