You just can't debunk this

Originally posted by noto
If you were to SOMEHOW get the mass media to address the molten steel, squibs, demolition of WTC7, numerous fire fighter / news reporter / WTC worker accounts of explosions on the lower floors shortly before the collapses....along with the 9/11 Eyewitness audio + footage.... then heads would definitely start rolling.

Good luck with this. Major media is owned by major corporations. Take GE for example: they're one of the worst. One hand in major media (NBC), another in the military industrial complex (though the two are somewhat hard to distinguish today). That's quite a conflict of interest.

Noam Chomsky's done a lot of research into the media, and reading Manufacturing Consent will show you an accurate propoganda model on how major media stories are filtered by several groups before they reach you. It has a lot of info, and gives a lot of examples of some sick stuff the US has done in other countries, only to have it's butt wiped by major media here in the West.

Also, republicans and democrats are two sides of the same coin. The real difference in this country, crudely, is between the rich and poor.

"In my view, all this is alll moot as Usama bin Laden Himself took credit for the attacks. But, of course, everyone knows the gov't conspired with UBL to carry out the attacks"

He has also gone on record denying it... interestingly.

1: I never made this into a partisan issue, I have no idea why you are.

2: The "government" includes democrats, republicans, independents, and whatever flavor there "government" might be.

3: There are plenty of questions, as long as there are questions without answers people are bound to come up with some theory or another... be it conspiracy theory or not..... ie conclusions.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by promomag
The 2nd point first, It's your duty as an American to question, especially the government. O.k. - I'll just leave it at that for now.

Originally posted by cybertroy
Amen to that promomag! Just because I love America doesn't mean I can't ask questions.

Asking questions is one thing. Drawing conclusions based on weak and circumstantial evidence is quite another. You conspiracy theorists are drawing conclusions.

I ask this question: IF there was any chance that the bush administration was behind the attacks; don't you think the Democrats would be all over this? Don't you think they not only would be screaming "IMPEACHMENT" but prison as well?

The government couldn't keep a lid on their prized anti-terror tool: The monitoring of telephone and intenet exchanges under the Patriot Act.

If the government was behind the attacks it would have required coordination on the magnitude of several hundred people; who are also Americans!! Don't you think their involvement would have leaked by now?

If you are seiously convinced of the criminal activities of the government; why don't you write your Senators and Congressmen? Why don't you hire some lawyer(s) to persue the government's involvement in 911 (the ACLU would love to take on this kind of case--AND THEY WOULD DO IT PRO--BONO if the complaint was legitimate)? You believe your government is behind one of the biggest attack on this nation's soil and the best you can do about it is cry on a conspiracy BBS? PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!

WEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OUTRIGHT UN-AMERICAN!!!! If the gov't was behind the attacks, REAL Americans would never allow them to get away with it. So you believe what you believe. I say: SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! Do something about it.

[edit on 11-3-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

That's right, 1 million dollars....

Source

$1 Million Contest Details

This is void where prohibited by law: including but not limited to Colorado , Maryland , Nebraska , North Dakota, Vermont, New Jersey and Tennessee. It is void anywhere prohibited by law.

The contest page supercedes all previous ones and all previous offers are withdrawn. 11-Nov-2005. Only one significant change has been made since the beginning except for clarification, point 12 about molten steel.

In response to challenges that one cannot prove a negative this paragraph has been added. There are several famous negative "proofs" that are accepted by the entire scientific community...

Please visit link for more details.

[Mod Edit - Put quote in tags and credited original source. Please read this thread:
Posting work written by others. **ALL MEMBERS READ** Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 12/3/06 by JAK]

Uh, do people really believe that was Usama on that tape they "found" lying around? The only evidence of someone looking like Usama taking credit for 911?

C'mon.

Originally posted by noto
"In my view, all this is alll moot as Usama bin Laden Himself took credit for the attacks. But, of course, everyone knows the gov't conspired with UBL to carry out the attacks"

He has also gone on record denying it... interestingly.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
As I believe The commission's report stated that Fire is a LOW Probability to take the buildings down.. In case you missed that point I will say it again.

A LOW PROBABILITY

Really?

Combine that with FEMA's report saying that the planes were not involved in the crash and what do you get? More damn lies! How can some of you sit there and let them lie to your face every day? Do you like being conned?

And when I mean squibs... I mean squibs so ridiculously out of place...such as these:

From Fox News (40-50 stories below the collapse point):


Single image: terrorize.dk...

Actual Fox News Video:
images.indymedia.org...



other photos:
terrorize.dk...
terrorize.dk...


[Mod Edit - removed excessive quoting and linked to the post concerned. Please review this thread: ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 12/3/06 by JAK]

Originally posted by noto
"In my view, all this is alll moot as Usama bin Laden Himself took credit for the attacks. But, of course, everyone knows the gov't conspired with UBL to carry out the attacks"

He has also gone on record denying it... interestingly.

noto;

Just a polite correction to your post format: When you quote someone, please type the word: "quote" and enclose it in brackets. To unquote, type: "/quote" and enclose it in brackets.

Also; when you make a claim, such as you did above ("record denying it"), please back it up (preferably from a reputable source).

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Also; when you make a claim, such as you did above ("record denying it"), please back it up (preferably from a reputable source).

Check this post out. It gives a specific quote of OBL and four sources.

...and then on November 12, 2001, he gave this interview in which he makes the the following statments:

The hijackers were "blessed by Allah to destroy America's economic and military landmarks". He freely admits to being behind the attacks: "If avenging the killing of our people is terrorism then history should be a witness that we are terrorists. Yes, we kill their innocents and this is legal religiously and logically."

He says: "The towers were supposed to be filled with supporters of the economical powers of the United States who are abusing the world. Those who talk about civilians should change their stand and reconsider their position. We are treating them like they treated us."

Bin Laden goes on to justify his entire terror campaign. "There are two types of terror, good and bad. What we are practising is good terror. We will not stop killing them and whoever supports them."

Now I suppose you're going to say this wasn't the real bin Laden; that instead, this was an imposter created by the US to vilify an otherwise peace-loving innocent victim of circumstances.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Now I suppose you're going to say this wasn't the real bin Laden; that instead, this was an imposter created by the US to vilify an otherwise peace-loving innocent victim of circumstances.

Yeah. That's pretty much it.

We have two tapes that were released that were obviously fraudulent wherein "Osama" claims responsibility. How much easier would it be to present text only as Osama? Obviously, it would be a lot easier.

So what about Osama being cited at least twice saying he was not responsible? That must just totally blow your mind.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by noto
"In my view, all this is alll moot as Usama bin Laden Himself took credit for the attacks. But, of course, everyone knows the gov't conspired with UBL to carry out the attacks"

He has also gone on record denying it... interestingly.

noto;

Just a polite correction to your post format: When you quote someone, please type the word: "quote" and enclose it in brackets. To unquote, type: "/quote" and enclose it in brackets.

Also; when you make a claim, such as you did above ("record denying it"), please back it up (preferably from a reputable source).

My apologies... here is Osama's denial:


Immediately after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States, the United States government named bin Laden as the prime suspect. However, in an interview published in Ummat Karachi, on 28 September 2001, although not widely reported at the time, bin Laden stated:


"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.... The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself.... intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. You see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars. Where will this huge amount go? It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance. Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance. I will give you an example. Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat."


en.wikipedia.org...
www.aljazeera.com...
www.robert-fisk.com... (Full interview)
911review.com... (Full interview

freedom for some, check out this
archives.cnn.com...
followed by this
www.whatreallyhappened.com...
and then finally this
deseretnews.com...

so let me straighten this out
your telling me that osama denying it is worthless because an osama whos facial features have significantly changed, writes with the other hand, and wears a ring which is against his religion (which they are extremist so religion is their lives) says that he did it? this was the ONLY tape were he officially admits to doing it as well. further more respectible credible physicist are full of BS even though their claims based on physics would back them up? and even more im unpatriotic and unamerican because, like the founding fathers of this nation would have wanted and clear stated, to question my government and even retaliate with maxium force should they abuse their powers or try to take away our freedoms?

to me that all sounds suspect. i am required, by the founders of this country, to question and if needed fight off any person who dares to take away our freedoms or attack us. the second amendment was even made for this, to defend against all threats foriegn and domestic, that includes the government. should we find that the government was behind it we should retaliate.

UNFORTUNATELY, it comes to great concern that the masses finding out any facts other then the ones that come from big business will come as a great task. this is because they do control the media, major media at least, and all government is usually in one way or another controlled by big business. big business owns the media, the government, and pretty much everything around you. yet you dare call me unpatriotic because big business has taken away my government and hopes to take away my freedoms after an attack which is probable the government was behind, is used as a reason?

Now I suppose you're going to say this wasn't the real bin Laden; that instead, this was an imposter created by the US to vilify an otherwise peace-loving innocent victim of circumstances.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Well, yes, minus the peace loving crap. Bin laden isn't innocent, but that video of him claiming credit for the attacks was about as legit as a 3 dollar bill.

When I first saw the video I had to laugh. the dude in the vid doesn't look anything like Bin laden by even the furthest stretch of the imagination. And of course, the fact it was supposedly left in a village just so U.S. forces could find the video just kills its credibility even more.

But thats neither here nor there. I still haven't seen a good debunking on why building 7 fell.

Look since most of us agree here that 911 is not what we have been told it is then who did it? I say it wasn't the arabs and I also say it was not just the white house. Who did it? I know but I'm afraid to say.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Look since most of us agree here that 911 is not what we have been told it is then who did it? I say it wasn't the arabs and I also say it was not just the white house. Who did it? I know but I'm afraid to say.

Why are you afraid to say? No one is going to kick in your door for saying.

I think Al-Qaeda was involved, but indirectly guided and goaded into the whole thing by plants and spooks, maybe from the CIA and Mossad. I think the government was fully aware of it, and indirectly made sure all failsafes were held back and the perps would be able to carry out their nefarious tasks unopposed by our security.

i dont think Bin laden is innocent, but neither is he the great mastermind behind the success. probably just a provacteur, whom those in power knew could be used to instigate and direct susceptible and disgruntled Muslimstowards carrying out an attack that our intelligence agencies knew was in the works since 1995 when a WTC bomber was arrested, and his hard drives showed the basis for such plans.