NEWS: US Medical Care for H5N1 Bird Flu: Your Options

Originally posted by soficrow
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Of course, that's not the official public position. According to this administration, there is NO bird flu in America, NO Mad Cow, NO problems.
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The good news is it's not the bird flu, according to the Texas Department of Wildlife. But officials say as a precaution, the dead birds should not be handled.

loam's thread

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FYI - officials say there is no Mad Cow in the USA either.
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So don't worry. Be happy. Spend money. Get more credit. And eat chicken and beef every day!

The only people who want to hurt you in America are the terrorists.

Would you please post quotes of any recent announcements from U.S. officials saying there are no cases of bird flu in the U.S?

All I see in your posts are your own opinions as to what is going on and you wish to claim the U.S. is behind this and want for this pandemic to happen.

I don't know if the news I read today represents scientific consesus, but according to the article, scientists are saying we are no closer to a flu pandemic now than we were several months ago. Also, I read where some group has now succeeded in making a vaccine for the current H5N1 flu strain and that is good news. I hope poultry farmers and their immediate family members (i.e., those living under the same roof) have an opportunity to get this vaccine ASAP

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I don't know if the news I read today represents scientific consesus, but according to the article, scientists are saying we are no closer to a flu pandemic now than we were several months ago. Also, I read where some group has now succeeded in making a vaccine for the current H5N1 flu strain and that is good news. I hope poultry farmers and their immediate family members (i.e., those living under the same roof) have an opportunity to get this vaccine ASAP

The problem with vaccines Astronomer is that one vaccine made for a strain of H5N1 does not guarantee that it will work for another strain that the virus could mutate into, hence any nation hoarding hundreds of millions of vaccines for one strain does not mean that that nation, or the world is safe, because the chances of the H5N1 virus mutating only to that same strain is low. This is what I have gathered from what I have read scientists say about H5N1, but who knows, anything can happen.


[edit on 15-3-2006 by Muaddib]

I'm sorry, Soficrow, but I'm having a problem with the correlation between the luxury suite and H5N1. In fact, I'm lost as to your assertion of our 'tax money' being spent on such accomodations.

The links, you provided, state that the 'benefits' are at an additional cost to the patient. So, if I understand correctly, they are billing the patient's insurance company (at max. billable rate for sure) and then passing additional charges ('Rock Star' fees) onto the patients themselves.

Am I missing something? Which of my tax dollars (Fed, state, sales) are contributing to this luxury?

I'm siding with Shots. This is a 'reach' for debate standards and I see nothing that supports your theory on better health care or better services being awarded to the elite.

In fact, I've noticed how much better and 'supreme' the medical benefits and services are for those who are 100% compliant on state and federal funds.

For instance, my family medical plan costs us $568/mo (before taxes, thank god) for a family of four. We have a $5000 detuctible per annual year (Jan - Dec) So, in otherwords, we have to pay at least $11,816.00 in a year (out of pocket) before we see any sort of 'benefit'. BTW, that figure does not include presciptions which are $20/40/60 for a monthly supply.

So, if I'm to go into the hospital for any sort of treatment (or therapy), what's the extra $200 - 250/day for special 'spa treatment' ? Hell, yeah I'd like to be treated as a queen for a moderate hotel rate (why not? my dh spends more than that in hotels when traveling and definately doesn't receive any 'special' treatment).

Edit: removed emphasis where it really wasn't needed (argh, forget about any other mistakes! it's too damned early in the morning)


[edit on 15-3-2006 by SourGrapes]

Originally posted by SourGrapes
I'm sorry, Soficrow, but I'm having a problem with the correlation between the luxury suite and H5N1. In fact, I'm lost as to your assertion of our 'tax money' being spent on such accomodations.

The budget subsidizes construction and supports the development of a "medical spa" industry in the USA to compete on the international market.

Medical spas are the hot new industry.

H5N1 is the most well known of the world's many modern epidemics. The medical spa industry is growing by leaps and bounds to "tap the market" created by these epidemics.

The budget is designed to put the USA on the international Medical Spa map - and is using tax dollars to do it.

The links, you provided, state that the 'benefits' are at an additional cost to the patient.

The Forbes link states that patients are billed only $200-$250 extra for a luxury suite - in comparison to Germany's Brennan Medical Spa for example, where the cost is $2,116. US per night for a single room.

That's a savings of $1916.00 to $1866.00, per day.

Patients get more space and competitive service in US Medical Spas - for MUCH less money. Construction subsidies and tax breaks do NOT stipulate that only rich Americans can benefit. So American taxpayers are subsidizing all the world's wealthy - not just the American rich.

So, if I'm to go into the hospital for any sort of treatment (or therapy), what's the extra $200 - 250/day for special 'spa treatment' ? Hell, yeah I'd like to be treated as a queen for a moderate hotel rate (why not? my dh spends more than that in hotels when traveling and definately doesn't receive any 'special' treatment).

No doubt. We all would.

Unfortunately, somewhere around 40 million Americans do not have any medical insurance at all. A great majority can afford only very basic coverage that is practically worthless.

Most Americans are looking at substandard triage in Halliburton-built porta-clinics.


Hope this explanation helps.

What price warrants walking into a virtual germ lab and catching secondary infections while being treated for avian flu? Have some flesh eating bacteria with your pedicure, madam?

Spa or no spa treatment, you have to be pretty desperate to go to any hospital if the country is undergoing an epidemic.



The wilderness and tent might prove to be the best bet as far as health and avain flu is concerned. Don't eat the ducks...

[edit on 15-3-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
What price warrants walking into a virtual germ lab and catching secondary infections while being treated for avian flu? Have some flesh eating bacteria with your pedicure, madam?

And there you've hit the nail on the head.



...Important distinction though between "Health Spas" and "Medical Spas" - the latter providing the "spa experience" with real medical care and presumably, better hygiene.

I wouldn't count on, personally.

Spa or no spa treatment, you have to be pretty desperate to go to any hospital if the country is undergoing an epidemic.

Many will be, unfortunately. Too bad ventilators weren't on the priority purchase list.

The wilderness and tent might prove to be the best bet as far as health and avain flu is concerned. Don't eat the ducks...

The virus is shed in bodily fluids and feces - soil and water are prime vectors. Many scientists think H5N1 originally came from man, ended up in waterways via runoff, infected fish via water, then domestic poultry - and only after that was transmitted to wild birds.

...H5N1 lives for 6 to 10 days depending on the vector and which report you reference...


Do water purification tablets will kill H5N1? Anybody know?

Originally posted by soficrow
Do water purification tablets will kill H5N1? Anybody know?

I have been scouring for about an hour now and I haven't found a direct, sure answer for this question (there are government sources I didn't look at or trust... I think they said use duct tape...)

Anyway, here is what I have found. This is a really good page for preparedness.

Pandemic Preparedness

Regardless of the source of your water, unless you KNOW it is safe to drink, plan on treating your water first and familiarize yourself with water treatment options. Boiling for at least (1) minute is a good standby, but some methods, such as purification tablets, should only be used on a limited basis due to health concerns. Choose an appropriate water treatment plan that works for your family's needs.

As a word of caution, if city water service has been interrupted or is intermittent, or if your tap water looks, smells or tastes odd or unpleasant, treat that water as if it were potentially contaminated and use your preferred treatment option before drinking.

Ditto to the campin thing. I love camping. You guys should all go read Walden. And learn to build a cabin. There is lots of habitable wide-open spaces here in the States. I got everything I already need save a couple cases of shells for my .40 and my .223. Anyone like deer jerky???

Diseases evolve when microbes adapt to new environmental conditions created by chemicals and other pollution. Very often, people are the "mixing vessels" for new diseases like bird flu.

"Today's megaslums are unprecedented incubators of new and re-emergent diseases that can travel across the world at the speed of a passenger jet," says Mike Davis, author of Planet of Slums, a book about the global problem of urban poverty.

The United Nations estimates that more than a billion people currently live in dire urban conditions. Dangerous and polluted shantytowns line the outskirts of almost every major city in the developing world. Some 32 percent of the world's urban population live in slums, and the number is growing every day.

People living in slums are often unable to find clean water, much less basic health care, leaving the communities to be overrun by disease and waste. Davis points to the global threat of avian flu as a concrete motivation to help the world's poor. "Today's megaslums," he says, "are unprecedented incubators of new and re-emergent diseases that can travel across the world at the speed of a passenger jet." If helping millions of poor people isn't motivation enough, if left unchecked, the world's dirty secret could become the catalyst for a global pandemic.

Slum Ecology: Inequity intensifies the Earth's natural forces

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by soficrow
Do water purification tablets will kill H5N1? Anybody know?

I have been scouring for about an hour now and I haven't found a direct, sure answer for this question (there are government sources I didn't look at or trust... I think they said use duct tape...)

Anyway, here is what I have found. ...Pandemic Preparedness

... but some methods, such as purification tablets, should only be used on a limited basis due to health concerns. ...

Thanks BH. and

I live near a VERY polluted river. Even distilling the water would leave me feeling unsafe - but I may need to just boil and filter.

Researching this is on my list...

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Speaking of water, check out the info from Los Alamos:

flu viruses stay active in lake water for 200 days!


Todays highlights in bird flu news: H5N1 bird flu was confirmed in a dog in Azerbaijan - and 3 people in that nation died from it according to preliminary tests; a Los Alamos scientist tracking H5N1 expects the deadly Asian strain in the USA sooner than predicted; a new study from Scripps and the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology has identified one possible pathway for H5N1 to mutate and become transmissible human-to-human.

American scientist Dr. Webster warns that an H5N1 bird flu pandemic could kill 50% of the world's human population, supporting earlier warnings from Dr. Dmitry Lvov, Russia's Director of Virology. And Lvov again makes the point, "No quarantine measure can prevent the pandemic. It can only slow it for a few days."

Health officials say a stray dog has died of bird flu in Azerbaijan. It is thought to be the first time the virus has killed a dog.

On Monday, the Caspian nation reported its first three human deaths from bird flu.

Bird Flu Claims First Dog

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Birds don't have to go through security checks when they cross borders. ...They don't have to get tested for drugs or disease before visiting wintering grounds along the Rio Grande. ...In the next two years, they could bring to New Mexico a deadly natural biological weapon - bird flu - says Jeanne Fair, a scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. She has been studying how the disease will travel from Asia and Europe into the United States and New Mexico. ...The strain that has infected millions of birds worldwide will almost certainly be here in the next two years, possibly by late 2007, Fair said. ..."I think it will probably be here sooner,..."

The disease, spread through bird feces, saliva and infected water, was first found in Hong Kong in 1997 and spread in birds through Asia. ..."You have to test the birds and test the water," Fair said. "If you find it in a lake, influenzas can hang around for a month. Some studies have shown it staying over 200 days." ...The longer the disease remains in the water, the more likely it is to find other host species, Fair said.

In Germany and Thailand, it has jumped to cats, which shows the virus is finding new ways to mutate, Fair said. ..."We know it infects cats - that's unheard of," Fair said. "Cats do not get influenza."

Los Alamos Scientist Tracking Bird Flu

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Scientists at The Scripps Research Institute, the Centers for Disease Control, and the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology have identified what the researchers described as a possible pathway for a particularly virulent strain of the avian flu virus H5N1 "to gain a foothold in the human population."

"With continued outbreaks of the H5N1 virus in poultry and wild birds, further human cases are likely," said Ian Wilson, a Scripps Research professor of molecular biology and head of the laboratory that conducted the recent study. "The potential for the emergence of a human-adapted H5 virus, either by re-assortment or mutation, is a clear threat to public health worldwide."

The study was published on March 16, 2006 by ScienceXpress, the advance online version of the journal Science.

Minor Mutations in Avian Flu Virus Increase Chances of Human Infection; Few Adaptations Are Needed to Transform It Into Potential Pandemic Virus

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"Society just can't accept the idea that 50 percent of the population could die. And I think we have to face that possibility," Webster said. "I'm sorry if I'm making people a little frightened, but I feel it's my role."

Renowned Bird Flu Expert Warns: Be Prepared

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"No quarantine measure can prevent the pandemic. It can only slow it for a few days," Dmitry Lvov, director of the Virology Institute at the Russian Academy of Sciences, said in Moscow.

Lvov

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[edit on 16-3-2006 by soficrow]

Friday, March 17, 2005


Israel confirmed H5N1 bird flu, hospitalized five people and started culling flocks.

Forbes outlines the potential impacts of a bird flu pandemic and other disasters on the real estate market. And the Federal Reserve is urging banks to ready their "preparedness and response strategy for a potential pandemic."

LONDON, March 17 — Israel detected its first cases of H5N1 bird flu on Friday, saying the virus had killed thousands of turkeys and chicken on two farms, and it hospitalized one person suspected of being infected.

Bird flu has spread with alarming speed in recent weeks across Europe, Africa and parts of Asia, stoking fears the virus could mutate into a form that could easily pass from one person to another, triggering a pandemic in which millions could die.

Reuters
Also see: Reuters

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Israel on Friday confirmed that the deadly H5N1 bird-flu strain had been found in thousands of poultry, as five people were admitted to hospital and the authorities moved to cull multiple flocks of fowl.

Israel confirms deadly H5N1 bird flu

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Over 11,000 turkeys die of apparent bird flu in Israel

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War, pestilence and natural disaster have always been bad news for human civilization; that would seem to suggest that they are bad for home sales as well. While conflagrations like World War II and economic declines like the Depression are rare, they do happen--as do lesser versions of conflict and crisis. ...We talked to a number of experts about hypothetical events that could send the U.S. real-estate market into a skid, from highly unlikely scenarios such as a military confrontation with China, to the types of predicaments we have faced in recent years, like natural disasters and terrorist attacks. ...A truly dramatic plunge in the real-estate market could be precipitated by a crisis, whether economic, natural or, as in the case of war, man-made, that lasted.

What about wars abroad, or concerns like bird flu, ...? ...a meaningful outbreak of avian flu in the U.S. would probably have a strongly adverse impact on the housing market, especially if it struck a major population center. Robert J. Shiller, an economist at Yale University and author of the book Irrational Exuberance, which predicted the 2001 stock market bust and was recently updated to include real-estate bubbles, notes that housing prices in the U.S. were on the decline in 1916. But a serious drop took place at the same time as the 1918 flu epidemic. "World War I and the flu were kind of coincided," he says. "It looks like that had a huge hit on housing prices--they were down 40% in real terms from 1912 to 1920."

Ten Signs Of A Real-Estate Apocalypse

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WASHINGTON - U.S. bank regulators on Wednesday advised financial institutions to have contingency plans in place in case avian flu becomes pandemic.

"Financial institutions and their service providers supply essential financial services and, as such, should consider their preparedness and response strategy for a potential pandemic," the Federal Reserve Federal Reserve, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Office of Thrift Supervision said in a statement.

US: banks should prepare in case

Here' a new bird flu government site that's been up just a few days:

One stop access to U.S. Government avian and pandemic flu information.
Managed by the Department of Health and Human Services.
www.pandemicflu.gov...

Thanks regenmacher.

The site looks like it's designed to "prevent panic" and downplay the dangers. But it's still better than nothing.

Found this article today on swans and bird flu:

They seem to be susceptible to the disease, and it's easy to notice when they die. Scientists don't think swans are being infected at a higher rate than other waterfowl. In fact, migratory ducks are considered somewhat more likely than other birds to carry the disease. But ducks are also less likely than swans to exhibit symptoms of the flu.

Migrating birds often share space in shallow bodies of water where a bird-flu infection can be passed around with ease. An infected duck, for example, can shed the virus in its droppings and contaminate the water. (The virus can survive for quite some time in a cold environment.) Another bird—a mute swan, for example—might ingest some of that water and develop the disease. Since epidemiologists think the effects of the flu are more acute in swans, the swan would most likely die first.

But the sudden rash of swan deaths might have as much to do with the size and color of the bird as its susceptibility to the virus. Health officials find out about possible bird flu cases only when someone notices a dead animal. And people are more likely to notice a large, lifeless, white swan than a little dead brown duck.

Why Are Swans Dropping Like Flies? Avian influenza fells the big birds first.

Here's an old article from my files:

May, 2005:
The Food and Agriculture Organization, a branch of the United Nations, estimates that between 120 million and 140 million domesticated birds like chicken and turkey have died from the H5N1 strain since the outbreak began last year.

...It's impossible to say what percentage of the world's birds have died from avian influenza. Ornithologists say there's no good way to estimate the worldwide bird population.

Birds spread the disease through droppings and other secretions, which often contaminate shared feed and water. Domesticated birds show a sudden decline in egg production a few days after they contract the illness; other symptoms include nasal discharge, swollen combs and wattles, severe internal bleeding, organ damage, and sudden death.

What Does the Bird Flu Mean For the Birds?

And another good one: Forget the Chicken and the Egg: A better way to make flu vaccine.




[edit on 18-3-2006 by soficrow]

Human - not animal - quarantine remains the USA's first choice to contain an epidemic.

The most recent US experience with quarantine camps involves survivors of the Katrina hurricane. Destitute Katrina survivors are housed in trailer parks - and forbidden to talk to the media without FEMA officials.

ATS: FEMA Muzzling La. Trailer Park Residents

Huricane survivors stuck in federal trailer parks must have big daddy FEMA present when talking to reporters.


Residents of trailer parks set up by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to house hurricane victims in Louisiana aren't allowed to talk to the press without an official escort...

FEMA spokeswoman Rachel Rodi ...confirmed that FEMA does not allow the news media to speak alone to residents in their trailers.
"If a resident invites the media to the trailer, they have to be escorted by a FEMA representative who sits in on the interview," Rodi told the newspaper for its July 15 report. "That's just a policy."

More about quarantine:

Quarantine: A Standard Depopulation Strategy

The Quarantine Solution

Bush Signs Quarantine Orders for Bird Flu

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When the pandemic hits, health-care will make the difference between living or dying, recuperating or becoming chronically ill.

But.

The United States already is ranked near the bottom on life expectancy and last on infant mortality - and barely half of Americans are getting the recommended preventive care, says the latest report comparing health-care in developed nations.

This despite the fact that the USA is spending twice the average of other industrialized nations on health-care. Not a situation that builds confidence.

The American health-care system falls short of what's available in other developed countries, a new report claims. ...After measuring 37 areas of quality, the United States only garnered a score of 66 out of 100, according to a report issued Wednesday by the Commonwealth Fund. ...Despite spending the most on health care of any of the countries examined, the United States often ranked below Iceland, France, Japan, Italy, Sweden and many others, according to the report. Moreover, health care varied dramatically from state to state, and from hospital to hospital.

"The U.S. spends 16 percent of its gross domestic product on health care," Commonwealth Fund President Karen Davis said during a press conference announcing the results. "That's more than twice the average of industrialized nations." ..."As other studies have shown and as our ever-growing uninsured rates underscore, we are not getting good value for that investment," Davis added. In fact, 40 percent of Americans have said that they had experienced inefficient, uncoordinated or unsafe care, she noted.

Schoen estimated that 150,000 lives and $100 billion could be saved each year if the entire U.S. health-care system was functioning up to the benchmarks set in each area. ...Compared with other countries, the United States is ranked near the bottom on life expectancy and last on infant mortality. In addition, barely half of Americans are getting the recommended preventive care, and this is true across all income levels, Schoen said.

U.S. Health-Care System Scores a D for Quality: New report compared different countries in 37 areas

Also see:

Worldwide Bird Flu Death Toll is Rising

WHO ranks bird flu as top health threat

"As long as avian influenza is endemic in the environment, there is a risk of a human pandemic."

...bird flu... has already exhibited two of the three benchmarks for a pandemic



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Hmm. Seems not much has changed in the last five years.

...rest assured, the truly nasty stuff is on its way.

When it gets here, rich Americans will get state-of-the-art medical care in new luxury hospital suites subsidized by your tax dollars. Ordinary Americans will get triage in temporary portable emergency care facilities built by Halliburton - and maybe a few useless shots of Tamiflu.

UPDATE


Chefs, Butlers, Marble Baths: Hospitals Vie for the Affluent

Luxury suites. Bed linens by Frette, designer Italian stuff used by popes and princes. Polished marble in the bathroom. But not for common folk. Check out the article.