Can we trust India?

Both president Bush and our own PM John Howard are in India. If the press is to be believed some if not a major focus of the discussions will be 1) the provision of uranium to India despite the fact that India has not signed any agreements on the use of uranium. From all accounts the US & Australia will take the view – we can ‘work around that’ if needed and if India doesn’t sign a pact.

Mr Howard will meet Indian President Abdul Kalam and the head of India's ruling Congress party, Sonia Gandhi, before an evening meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who plans to seek a relaxation of Australia's strict nuclear policy.

ninemsn

news.ninemsn.com.au...

2) is to shore up India as a strong ally as a contingency against China flexing their soon to be super power muscles.

The question is however – can we trust India to live up to their end of the bargain if at any point China becomes a problem. India location wise in a very vulnerable position slap bang in the middle of Asia and surrounded by potential and current enermies.

Interesting times ahead perhaps?





[edit on 24-3-2006 by asala]

Like everything our country elected leaders do on their own claiming that is in our names and for the good of the country and our nation is nothing more than a whole bunch of BS and another score for the ones in power and the elite.

They are the ones benefiting from any deals that has to do with money, profits and busness deals.

That doesn't mean that I as a citizen has to agree with what the government do and I have to trust any country because they say so.

I regard India like I regard Pakistan, and any other country in the middle east with nuclear power.

They will used it when they feel like it and they will not ask me or you for permission. so the hell with them.

I truly do not trust any of them I care less for their business deals because they are not for our benefit.

We may as well be handing them nuclear weapons. Enrichment facilities that would have been used for making reactor fuel can now make weapons grade material instead. There must be something unspoken, or not obvious in the deal.

I personally believe that the only reason why Bush is getting matey with India is so that America can gain a foothold in the region, as India is right next to Pakistan, and other areas where "terrorists" reside.

Having India onside would also be very useful if a war ever occurs between the west and China, which could happen, India is strategically placed for an invasion etc. Also, India isnt exactly a friend of Pakistan, and George Bush along with the Western World has sucessfully managed to p*ss of many Muslims around the world, aswell as a whole lot of them in Pakistan, making friends with a country who does not exactly get along with a muslim country is another step to make America stronget against the apparent terrorists

There is also a substancial amount of natural resources in India...

Major portion of the energy in India is generated from coal. It is estimated that India has around 120 billion tons of coal in reserve, enough to last for around 120 years. Huge reserves of petroleum have been found off the coast of Maharashtra and Gujarat.

Source
And Check This Out

But whether India will remain loyal? Thats a tough one, perhaps if it goes belly up in the region, and a war or perhaps another Cold War is not in Indias favour, I would imagine India wouldnt fight for America, merely offer resources and bases, but if put under pressure from China, Iran etc, the regions big guns, they may cave in and stop co-operating, which would be disasterous for the Americans, who seem really determined to get a good relationship going with India.

Anyone else with any ideas?

[edit on 24-3-2006 by asala]

It's just another desperate bid by the West to draw India back into their fold when it has allready made up's it's mind and joined the winning side that is Russia and China with their various groupings of allies. This is apparently how far America will go to gain even temporary allies and economic benefits.

Stellar

Good move by america. One less competitor for world oil

India and China are potentially the two super powers of the not too distance future. They have the population which means at some point self reliance. Other countries want to trade with them because they have a developing economy and scale that the rest can only dream of.

China will do their own thing and in fact they probably don’t need the west in the longer term so essentially they will run their own race I think we can make that statement with some certainty. Their allies will not be the US, UK or even the rest of Asia. Perhaps therefore the only option obtainable to the west is to buddy up with India in an attempt to keep the balance. This still raises the question however can we trust India as a mid to longer-term ‘partner’? What will they gain?

Its not a question of whether india can be trusted but that of whether the us can be trusted to stick to its side of the bargain(it has a notorius rep of goin back on its words)
plus its not yet ratified by the us congress.
also the deal benefits us more then india (believe a majority of indians are unhappy bout it)

India is the worlds largest democracy n has the cleanest record when it comes to non-proliferation.
It is not a puppet pf the US like pakistan that'll do evrything it says, india will act as to what best suits its national interest.
we came up from scratch to being a major force in nuclear tech despite heavy sanctions from the west, we just need uranium for nxt 10 years or so cause by then we'll have or own thorium based reactors(of which we have around 70% of the worlds resources)
as for someone talkingf about treating india in the same light as pakistan n others,plz we are light years ahead of them in terms of tech,society,civilastion, culture n everything else.
they are neandrthals compared to us.

Exactly my point. If the west provides India with uranium under the misguided belief that if things get sticky with China that India would then jump to support the west I suspect India would say - sorry you are on your own. 'Your fight not ours'.

India, by far, is still a # poor country. For all the millions of citizens with degrees in computer science and nuclear engineering there are hundreds of millions who live in aluminum garbage cans and eat tree bark.

I think India wants a way into the 'cheap and effecient' fuel market inorder to bring the nation out of third world status where it currently dwells.

I would also think India is looking at this as a way to best Pakistan by saying 'Yeah, that's right you (explicit people), we got the US on our side with the nuclear protocol! That's right, you know, that country that started a war in your backyard and is about to start another is our newest associate. What's up!'

This may have business implications as wel. Not surprising! Consider the amount of jobs that are being shipped to India, especially in the computer related fields. Bill Gates has had a handful with the Indian government. He has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to fight AIDS in India and other various charitable donations are expected to come. The reason he shells out this money is quite simple. In his own words 'I cannot hire your (American) sons and daughters (because they do not have the qualifications).'

I see this as a steping stone that India has looked at as probably far overdue. This one little act of a nuclear accord will probably open up a flood gate of business activity to India now that they are recieving what they are after (different source of fuel than smog producers).

NOTE: India must also end its current caste system.

[edit on 7-3-2006 by Frosty]

Originally posted by 2smart2curious
as for someone talkingf about treating india in the same light as pakistan n others,plz we are light years ahead of them in terms of tech,society,civilastion, culture n everything else.
they are neandrthals compared to us.

Comments like that only confirm the animosity on both sides wether Indian or Pakistani, Hindu or Muslim. You wonder why some see the danger of the US aligning itself with one side or the other. Neanderthals imo would probably prefer not to be associated with either side.

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
Exactly my point. If the west provides India with uranium under the misguided belief that if things get sticky with China that India would then jump to support the west I suspect India would say - sorry you are on your own. 'Your fight not ours'.

Well its not like you're giving India Uranium to pile up nukes against China?
Also this deal is not pivoted on India's alignment to the US vis-a-vis China.
India's relationship with China is independant from that of the US.
However there are certain common grounds in the China-Policy of both countries(India and US) and there's no harm co-operating on these grounds.

Nobody's a neandarthal; its just that there are loads of nationalistic youth from various countries on ATS.
You need to be able to recognise that and filter the respective details.

Originally posted by chinawhite
Good move by america. One less competitor for world oil

Ahh.. We'll see about that..

Originally posted by 2smart2curious
as for someone talkingf about treating india in the same light as pakistan n others,plz we are light years ahead of them in terms of tech,society,civilastion, culture n everything else.
they are neandrthals compared to us.

Sorry to burst your bubble of feeling above your neighbor but India and Pakistan share a common bond and that is their muslin population.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by 2smart2curious
as for someone talkingf about treating india in the same light as pakistan n others,plz we are light years ahead of them in terms of tech,society,civilastion, culture n everything else.
they are neandrthals compared to us.

Sorry to burst your bubble of but India and Pakistan share a common bond and that is their muslin population.

In INdia no doubt there is a disparity between certain hindus n muslims but as a whole we dont loook at them as somethin of a common bond with pakistan.
we are a highly secular country and have many muslims who are unquestionable patriots n occupy high positions.
u cant compare indian and pakistani muslims.
infact most of the educated n many uneducated as well view the partition of the country as a matter of shame(cause muslims n BRITISH were major causes for it.)
our president who formerly was our premier missile scientist developed most the powerful weapons which india has today for the defence of the country n he is a muslim.
n regardin the "feeling above your neighbor " sentiment, we have everuy right to do so.we were in the same situation as them 50 years ago but today we have overtaken them by leaps and bounds.

~~

Conspirator_101 touches on my line of thinking.

the Anglo-American Alliance is positioning itself for the Eventual
loss of Pakistan from being 'influenced' by the powerful 'West'

President Musharef(sp?) will not be around indefinitely, nor is
any groomed-successor guaranteed to be receptive to Western
strategies.
India is being stroked with the 'Junior Partner' brush,
with the implied promise that they might be given the reins as the
driver of the Asian-Oceania economic theatre.
the nuclear package, is a carrot-on-a-stick...

i can only imagine the blow-back when India gets the picture and
responds...recall that passage, 'all the merchants of the earth will weep...'
sheeze-

Duplicated by mistake!
The post is the next one.
Happy reading!

[edit on 19-3-2006 by mikesingh]

Lady of the Lake,

You had mentioned the word 'We'. Who is the 'we'? Is it America, UK, Canada and Australia, all ganged up against the rest of the world? The superior race versus the lesser mortals? The controllers of civilization, the Ruling World Order?

Many in the West do suffer from this megalomania. The sooner this notion is trashed, the better it would be for the world as a whole. A lot of water has flowed under the bridge and the world is not what it was 50 years ago.

Now coming to the subject proper:
The question of ‘trust’ is a question of ‘perception’.
For example, can Pakistan trust the US after being left out to dry a number of times in the past once America’s strategic objectives were met?

Can India trust America after it slapped sanctions on it because it tested a nuclear device?

Can the Middle Eastern countries trust the West after the Iraq fiasco and its meddling in the region?

The bottom line is ‘enlightened national interest’. Every country will keep this in mind before taking any strategic decision.

Having said that, we have to move on and not be mired in medieval thinking. We’ve got to see what is best for our countries, for mutual benefit, resulting in vibrant and flourishing democracies.

Secretary of State Condy, gave a good interview to the Washington Post a couple of days ago. The excerpt:

The week before last President Bush concluded a historic agreement on civilian nuclear cooperation with India, a rising democratic power in a dynamic Asia.
This agreement is a strategic achievement: It will strengthen international security. It will enhance energy security and environmental protection. It will foster economic and technological development. And it will help transform the partnership between the world's oldest and the world's largest democracy.

Aspiring proliferators such as North Korea or Iran may seek to draw connections between themselves and India, but their rhetoric rings hollow. Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism that has violated its own commitments and is defying the international community's efforts to contain its nuclear ambitions. North Korea, the least transparent country in the world, threatens its neighbors and proliferates weapons. There is simply no comparison between the Iranian or North Korean regimes and India.

The world has known for some time that India has nuclear weapons, but our agreement will not enhance its capacity to make more. Under the agreement, India will separate its civilian and military nuclear programs for the first time. It will place two-thirds of its existing reactors, and about 65 percent of its generating power, under permanent safeguards, with international verification -- again, for the first time ever. This same transparent oversight will also apply to all of India's future civilian reactors, both thermal and breeder. Our sale of nuclear material or technology would benefit only India's civilian reactors, which would also be eligible for international cooperation from the Nuclear Suppliers Group.

This very interesting interview which includes the security and economic angles too can be read on this link:
www.state.gov...

A must read.

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Ahh.. We'll see about that..

It already happened....