The Problems With The Middle East

and it doesn't seem that any of the stuff you're postulating is even in there. From the wikipedia link:

The writer Arthur Koestler alleged in a book (in The Thirteenth Tribe), that modern Ashkenazi Jews are of Khazarian ancestry rather than Semitic. According to Bernard Lewis:
This theory... is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics.[9]
DNA studies demonstrate that Ashkenazi Y-Chromosome Jews originated in Middle Eastern populations, [10] as has the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of at least 40% of the current Ashkenazi population.[11] So although Khazars might have been absorbed into the Jewish population it is unlikely that they formed a large percentage of the ancestors of modern Ashkenazim. [12]

At this point it doesn't seem to matter though considering that all of the sephardic Jews have all moved to Israel, for the most part. While you may consider zionism to be an overall negative, I think that most of the sephardic refugees who were forced out of their respective countries might disagree.

As for your assertion that most Jews are not in favor of Zionism, that's just retarded. There is a movement among the Satmars that's anti-zionist but the largest group of Hasidim, the Lubavachers, are not. Neither are Reform, Conservative or Modern Orthodox movements. Certainly most American Jews are not anti-zionist. I think you're reading between the lines on most of these links you put up, buddy. Your tin foil hat may be misaligned.

If you'll look at my earlier posts you'll see that a blood tie to Israel is not what is important. As you said, Judaism is not a race. Israel was formed to be primarily a refuge from anti-semitism. It was formed in Palestine both because of the strong cultural and historic ties that the religion has to that land as well as because of the population of Jews who were already and have always lived there. The blood tie is not the paramount thing here. It is the cultural history. (But it isn't as though you've exactly disproved the ashkenaz blood tie, now, is it?)

Your ideas on race are technically correct, but that isn't how the world works. Race is a social construction. Just because there is not any real genetic borderlines between black or white is cold comfort to folks who have found themselves at the wrong end of a slave trade because of it. Ultimately it is because of this perceived difference that zionism took root in order to fill a need.

But it doesn't matter much anyway. None of the links you provided came close to supporting your theories.

It might be interesting for you to discover which entities were behind both the revolution in Russia and the creation of Israel and how those two events have conspired and or abused to create a century of bloodshed and violence.

Ahhhh. So we aren't talking about Zionism after all, are we? We're talking about Jews. Big surprise.

With all the Ethics restructuring going on in congress regarding perks, trips and gifts, is it any wonder how things like this sneak in under the wire?
Trips to Israel are listed as being educational. Obviously the congressmen/women are being treated to a one-sided education and absorb only what Israel wants them to know.

It is an opinion piece written by former Senator Jim Abourezk (Yes I would imagine he is an Arab American)

The hidden cost of free congressional trips to Israel
Branded as 'educational,' these trips offer Israeli propagandists an opportunity to expose members of Congress to only their side of the story.
By Jim Abourezk
SIOUX FALL, S.D. - Democrats in Congress have moved quickly – and commendably – to strengthen ethics rules. But truly groundbreaking reform was prevented, in part, because of the efforts of the pro-Israel lobby to preserve one of its most critical functions: taking members of Congress on free "educational" trips to Israel.

The pro-Israel lobby does most of its work without publicity. But every member of Congress and every would-be candidate for Congress comes to quickly understand a basic lesson. Money needed to run for office can come with great ease from supporters of Israel, provided that the candidate makes certain promises, in writing, to vote favorably on issues considered important to Israel. What drives much of congressional support for Israel is fear – fear that the pro-Israel lobby will either withhold campaign contributions or give money to one's opponent.


In my own experience as a US senator in the 1970s, I saw how the lobby tries to humiliate or embarrass members who do not toe the line.

Pro-Israel groups worked vigorously to ensure that the new reforms would allow them to keep hosting members of Congress on trips to Israel. According to the Jewish Daily Forward newspaper, congressional filings show Israel as the top foreign destination for privately sponsored trips. Nearly 10 percent of overseas congressional trips taken between 2000 and 2005 were to Israel. Most are paid for by the American Israel Education Foundation, a sister organization of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the major pro-Israel lobby group.

Source

One of the issues here on ATS regarding the Israeli/Palestinian issue has been the moral balance. Most Pro-Israelis always seem to take the morally higher stance. Many always trying to vilify the Palestinians as being the only violent entity in the problem and the only side of the issue that indoctrinates hate as well as violence. While they are correct and there are Palestinians guilty of these crimes, there are many not only on ATS but in the world in general that paint the people of palestine, all of them with the same brush. Many times over many years there have been stories, horrible stories of attrocities, many attributed to conspiracy, many attributed to anti-semetism, many attributed to lunacy but always denied. One of the biggest problems has been PR, the Palestinians are the ones that get the brunt of the negative PR while the Israeli side is always shed in the victim light. Its only been recently since the internet and the introduction of hand-held video cams that we have even been able to glimpse what kind of lives the palestinians have, what kind of daily tortures they go through on a daily basis.

Even with videos, even with eyewitness testimony, even through the words and outcrys of HR organizations, former American Presidents, Former South african leaders and clergy, UK and Irish clergy, there is still denial that Israel is guilty. All of them each and every one of them are discredited, charged with racismaccused of being nazi's or collaborating with Islamofacists. Many Arabs, many citizens of countries worldwide have made accusations of media control favoring Israel, and always its passed off as conspiratorial theory and there will always be that certain someone who will come in and throw in the usual "Yes and its the Jooos who are trying to take over the world" in order to discredit the OP and make it appear as though its a racially motivated thread.

Many people even try to deny that the majority of terrorist attacks on America are tied to our blind support for our allies in the Middle East, attributing it to lunatic muslims that hate our freedoms and our fortunes.

We are protecting some evil people in Israel. They are religious zealots who will stop at nothing to achieve their own religious goals at the cost of other peoples lives. Its not just a small minority of people. For this to have lasted so long there have been many people, some powerful, some not, but all with the same goals in mind. This is truly evil. This is not just something that recently begun to appear. Its always been there, but always denied, always quieted, silenced, or muzzled. Its there. Its now here, in the USA, just look at how we have been living. Their goals have now become our goals. They live in fear, because they bring fear to others, and now we too know the same fear. Afraid on buses, trains, bridges, no taking pictures of Bridges, no taking pictures of buildings, armed military on our streets, searches at airports, train depots and even subway stations. This is how these people live. This is how the Palestinians live and now its how we too are being trained to live. For what? So these people can succeed in their goals? Its there...just open your eyes

Little Ahmadinejads

By Gideon Levy

Ram Caspi has written an article. From the heights of his apartment in Tel Aviv's David Towers, the prominent lawyer has suggested strangulating the Gaza Strip. In the financial daily Globes of May 25, he called for, "neither a land incursion nor an aerial attack, but the creation of a noose ... From the moment that rocket number eight is fired, the government of Israel will act to cut Gaza off from the essential infrastructure systems of fuel, water, electricity and telephones, and will prevent others from providing these utilities to Gaza."

In other words: to cut a million and a half people off from the sources of life. Caspi is a successful attorney, who comes and goes in the tabernacles of justice and rule, a man who moves about in the highest reaches of Israeli society. Not a hair on his head has been mussed as a result of his satanic proposal. This man of the law who incites for the violation of international law has not been chastised. No one has shunned him in the wake of his words. The season for racism, collective punishment and verbal violence is at its height. What was once the reserve of nutcases on the right, the talkbackers and the loony listeners to the call-in radio programs, is now politically correct, in the heart of the consensus, the dernier cri in the violent and overheated Israeli discourse.

Caspi is not alone. Satan is no longer to be found only in Tehran --- he is alive and kicking here in our midst. Israel is being inundated by a murky stream of little blue-and-white Ahmadinejads: If the president of Iran proposes to destroy Israel, they, who are smaller than he, are proposing only to "eradicate" villages, "flatten" them, starve entire populations and in fact to kill them

Little Ahmadinejads (Please read the rest of the article)

reply to post by subz


The Arab world is subject to genocide, it is true. It's just that it's mostly self-inflicted, and Israel has nothing to do with any of it. An article by Ben Dror Yemini, Ma'ariv / nrg.co.il correspondent of the Arab or Muslim world.

Fact no. 1: Since the establishment of the State of Israel a merciless genocide is being perpetrated against Muslims and/or Arabs by Muslims and/or Arabs.
Fact no. 2: The conflict in the Middle East, between Israel and the Arabs as a whole and against the Palestinians in particular, is regarded as the central conflict in the world today.
Fact no. 3: According to polls carried out in the European Union, Israel holds first place as “Danger to world peace”. In Holland, for instance, 74% of the population holds this view. Not Iran. Not North Korea. Not Sudan with it more than a Million of dead Africans. Not Tibet. Not India. Not London. Just Israel. Connecting between these findings creates one of the biggest deceptions of modern times: Israel is regarded as the country responsible for every calamity, misfortune and hardship. It is a danger to world peace, not just to the Arab or Muslim world.

The finger is pointed cleverly. It’s difficult to blame Israel for the genocide in Sudan or for the civil war in Algeria or Iraq. Turkey can bomg the Kurds now days and every one is silent.
How is it done?
Dozens of publications, articles, books, periodicals and websites are dedicated to one purpose only: Turning Israel into a state that ceaselessly perpetrates war crimes. In Jakarta and in Khartoum they burn the Israeli flag, and in London, in Oslo and in Zurich hate articles are published, supporting the destruction of Israel.

snip

It is possible and acceptable to criticize Israel. But the excessive, obsessive, and at times anti-Semitic criticism serves also as a coverup, and in some cases also as an approval, of the genocide of millions of others.

Occupation is not enlightened and can’t be enlightened. But if we try to create a scale of ‘brutal occupation’, Israel will come last. This is a fact. This is not an opinion.

snip

There are those that claim that Arab and Muslim states are immune from criticism, because they are not democratic or just retarded, but Israel is more worthy of criticism because it has democratic pretences and wisdom of life. Claims like this are Orientalism at its worst. The covert assumption is that the Arabs and the Muslims are the retarded child of the world so They are allowed to kill and bomb others. It is not only Orientalism. It is racism.

www.nrg.co.il...

If you dont have the energy to read it, at least take a look at the numbers of casualties in all those wars.

reply to post by Shaktimaan


Many people don't understand what Zionism is and few among them just use it for slander and smear the Jews as a whole. Since clear Anti Semitism turned to be against the law in many cultivated countries, they fight against "Zionism" and Israel, because they are full understood that these organs keep the Jewish people strong and alive.

Zionism is an international political movement that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel. That's all. And you should know that most of the Jews all around the world share that idea and support the Israel in any term and condition. Add to that the vast core of non-Jews, mainly Christians and Muslims, that believe either in political terms or in religious one that Jews have the right to create their own state in their own historical land, and you get hundreds of millions that support Israel in any case.

reply to post by Thomas Crowne



I think its well known now that Jews didn't crucify Jesus nor let the Romans do it, because the Roman occupiers didn't ask the occupied Jews how to deal with the safety of the Roman conquest. Neither did the Jews crucifying people. Crusification was a Roman tool to execute people.

The story of the crusification was build and changed through history by people who wanted to smear the Jews on religious argumentations. One has to remember that Jesus was totally Jewish and his students created a Jewish sect of belief within the umbrella of Judaism. Only some decades later Christianity split out from Judaism into the Gentiles and then the hostility provoked between both.

reply to post by ThePieMaN



Piggie,
Your brut, brute, brit, brat, bruit, berate, brutal British boycott had toatlly failed. You deserve it

reply to post by De All


From what I can deduce from your reply, you are basically saying on one hand that "Israel is not the worst of the human rights violators" and on the other hand that "Israel does not violate human rights". Which one is it?

I can see the fruitlessness of arguing with you on this topic as I assume you're an avowed Zionist. As such you are incapable of a) either seeing any wrongs in Israel's actions or b) that if Israel does do something wrong that it's entirely justifiable any way.

If you want to truly debate the issue I'll be happy to oblige. If, however, you only posted that as a stand-alone and obfuscatory polemic, I'll leave it be.

I am a Muslim and think the solution to middle east and other Islamic nations is they all unite together (one Ummah).

What i mean by united is,one government,one army,one law(sharia law),One system.By doing all that, the Muslim nations will follow one way.
As a whole we can work together to tackle the problems (poverty,education) and get rid of them.

It is amazing to me that no one speaks of or understands God's purpose for Isreal. it is lack of knowledge i this that is going to devastate many countries. No one seems to think that God has any stake in this.
If the nations continue with this "road map to peace": if they continue to divide Isreal with Israel's enemies; especially if they divide Jerusalem; God will strike any country with disastor that does this. Remember when Sharon and Bush threw the Isreali settlers out of the west bank in 2004.
Sharon immediately had a stroke and Katrina devastated the gulf.
People are not catching on. They are not understanding correctly. neither do they consider God's purposes.
Any Isreali that would give up that land for peace is probably one of the false jews. Any so-called Christian leader who would do this is probably not a real Christian. real Christians know what God's plan is and they know not to mess with this land. God is making Jerusalem a burdonsome stone for all the poeple round about. And anyone who meddles with Jerusalem will be cut in pieces. peace, cantyousee

reply to post by subz

Subz

Thank you so much for all this information. I must admit I have a real nervous stomach when I think of how the Middle East seems to be holding together with just a thread.

When I heard that Iran had a missile that was able to reach Israel my heart skipped a beat. I just knew if they did that they were capable of using it and that would put the US right in the middle of another war to defend Israel.

I hope I am wrong, but I think we are o borrowed time with these folks.

Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Produkt


I think it would be right to say that Jesus, himself, crucified himself. He offered his body for the perfect sacfrifice. The Jews didn't kill him and in a real sense neither did Pilate. It all happened as it was meant too.

Peace,
Grandma

It's not just the middle east that has problems. There is not a single place populated with people that doesn't have a history of war.

I guess it seems like there are more wars in the middle east because it is subcategorised under the banner of the middle east or by muslims and not a particular country or region.

reply to post by Obliterated


Indeed, however very nice post OP, has some nice information.

The middle east is just the hot topic at the moment, would not suprise me if it shifts onto Russia/China/Japan in a few years.