Michael Moore's New Book On Bush

Originally posted by Leveller
Hooray for Moore!!!

It doesn't matter if he tells lies or fabricates his evidence!!!!!

[Edited on 8-10-2003 by Leveller]

it's a trend these days, anyone with any amount of power fabricates evidence, police men fabricate evidence, politicians, corporations, the media, everything, u just have to pick out the good stuff that is a part of the fabrications.

A police state - well maybe
A country defending its borders more likely - but still a country where you are free to say things like this and free to own weapons for your own protection. Not my view of a police state - perhaps you have a passport - again not something alowed in a police state or the right of free association - not a police state.

your not exactly free to say whatever you want where ever you want check out this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
the core reason behind the right to own firearms is to have a country militia basically, in the same manner as switzerland
i agree that it's not a police state, but it is becoming more and more restricted

That Mr. Moore writes what he wants to pander to his own political needs doesn't bother me in the least. Apparently he is blessed with talent and a venue. Good for him. What bothers me is that any mention of the fact that he writes from his heart and not factual information is quickly stiffled although when put on the spot, Mr. Moore himself admits he doesn't research his work. Remember the thread on Bowling for Columbine that was argues to death earlier in the year, Dom? Yeah, I know its you.

Its fine for Moore to make all the accusations he wants but it becomes hypocritical to stiffle someone who simply points out "this is for entertainment and shouldn't be taken as factual information." Mr. Moore's hatred keeps him and his political view very detatched from the reality that he denys and must sheild himself from. Thats his right and all well and good but lets realize that his writings come from emotion and not true unbiased research.

On a separate note, I too would like to know why Bush grounded the whole country and yet let the Bin-Ladens fly back to their snake's den.

Also, Peace. You seem to know want to connect the Bin-Laden family to UBL like that would be damning thing yet in other threads you all out profess the innocents of UBL and his group. Which is it? ..Or is it whatever you need at the time?

It all depends what side of the fence you are on, Michael Moore's hate and political views make his opinions very similar to my own.

If you don't like his work, fair enough, I'm sure he couldn't care less. There are plenty of people who enjoy his books for many reasons, you guys who hate, well don't buy the book.

fair enough. However, when claims are made in debates using sources, its not out of bounds to confirm their accuracy. Thats all I'm saying. If someone quotes Mr. Moore, from what I've read to this point on him, I think I'd go check it out through a couple of other sources. But thats my way and will continue to be.

Earthtone,

isn't it your bedtime yet?

everyone else,

hard for me to take seriously a multimillionaire that pretents to still be a socialist and walks around lookin like little Kim of NK.

Why doesn't he for the sake of balance write a book about excess on his side of the fence? Oops he wouldn't make money doing that.

I thought that was the whole point of MM when considering his "facts". The government churns out almost all that we see and hear in the media and almost all of it is twisted truths and lies, to be presented from their point of view.

Because of this MM also plays dirty and twists them in favour of his point of view, bringing to the people things they should be questioning the government about. I thought that was the whole point? He may not be great with his statistics but he gets it right in terms of the big picture and actually ASKING the questions.

One thing I am sick of is people attacking "Bowling For Columbine", saying that it was "misleading". One of the main points these people make is the way in which the film is edited, playing with time and statements. Well anyone that knows ANYTHING about filmmaking will know this not being misleading, it's called good filmmaking. I am sick of constantly seeing articles about this # so heres so articles to defend it.

www.kuro5hin.org...

www.michaelmoore.com...

I take it no one disagrees with these articles then?

JN,

the point is that he is shilling for the dems and the left of centre so why should I trust him?

he is as biased as any of them.

he is producing books that contain a certain amount of fiction in them which younger and less experienced people read and then they believe they are facts and gospel or something.

frankly their should be a disclaimer in the front of the books, not that I would know because I have never read them nor do I plan to.

besides the entire educational system for the most part is left wing how much more control do the socialists want?

You've never read any of his books? Then how the # can you comment on this subject then? I read books by people I dislike and a disliking of their politics all the time. Why? Because I ain't ignorant. It helps to know thy enemy, or didn't you know that?

Anyone who writes that someones book is full of fiction and then says they haven't read it are stupid and ignorant plain and simple.

Yes your right his books do have fiction in them. In downsize this he claims that Steve Forbes is an alien. We can't have children reading this and thinking it might be true can we. Oh I forgot, most kids aren't as stupid as that.

NEO- what is it with you and your attacks on every political belief that isnt white bread conservative right wing?

John Nada, first off. Love your avatar. I'm a big fan of They Live. In fact , you prompted me to dig out my old VHS copy and watch it again.

Second, I don't have any problem with the entertainment view of anything Mr. Moore does. I simply made the point that it is a movie and it isn't actual events only one persons unofficial take of an event(s) largely based on something that happened but fiction nonetheless. You refered to it as a film and I think you're completly accurate in that respect. On the previous thread I menationed, people were refering to it as a true documentary which , by Mr. Moore's own admission, it is not. He never made the claim that it was only presented his view and he's welcome to it.

What it boils down to is not an attack (at least not by me) on Mr. moore or anyone who likes his work..but merely a clarification of the true nature of his work. Are we to continue under false pretenses in the shadow of a truth everyone knows for political reasons. Isn't that a large problem with the system we are all trying to buck anyway? At ATS, there is nothing wrong with allowing the truth to shine and I also agree with you about the so-called official government BS as well. I would say that what you might disagree with me about is that I think our democrat presidents are just as guilty of hiding the truth as the republicans are. I don't trust them no matter who has control. They're all corrupt. The problem I have with Mr. moore is that if Gore was president, I doubt we'd here any protest from him at all. What I'm getting at is there is a big difference between seeking truth and seeking political fodder.

Amen, JN, great posts.

I've had a lot of arguments in the past about Moore, and it is amazing how many of his critics have never read his books. How can you have an opinion on a book you havent read at all?

Moore's views have a little to do with North Korea version of socialism, Neo. I'd say that Moore has a similar philosophy as social democrats in Europe have. That ideology probably did occur first amongst poor people, but it has gone way beyond that. The fact that one has money (with his talent rightfuly earned money) doesnt make him a ruthless no-feelings-at-all billionaire. He can have money and still think about those who dont, criticize corporate practices (which, as we all know are horrible) and such.

Cheers for the compliment there astro.
I am very pleased that I inspired you to dig out They Live, it's a criminally underrated film. "That's like putting perfume on a pig".

Actually if you read many of my other posts concerning politics you would find that I am in 100% agreement that it would be no difference as to what government is in power, they are ALL corrupt and are all lyers.

My point on Michael Moore is that alot of people are claiming things in his films as lies when in fact they are not, just good filmmaking. Have you read the articles I have posted? If you haven't please do. It is one thing to point out mistakes, it is another to outright attack and lie about someone to discredit them. Just as people say people might take MM at face value, others might take at face value these neo-facist assholes who are trying to discredit him. I hope you agree.

Originally posted by astrocreep
I would say that what you might disagree with me about is that I think our democrat presidents are just as guilty of hiding the truth as the republicans are. I don't trust them no matter who has control. They're all corrupt.

Michael Moore said those exact things in his books. He was criticizing Clinton too, a lot, and democrats. The reason why Bush got a lot of it is simply because he is the current president, and his way to that honorable place is very dubious.

Originally posted by paperclip
Michael Moore said those exact things in his books. He was criticizing Clinton too, a lot, and democrats.

Exactly paperclip. He said the only difference was that we might get #ed slightly less by the democrats. He absolutely tears Clinton apart in his books, yet people like THENEO can make false statements and assumptions about a person from books of theirs they've never read. Unbelievable!

no one got anything to add to this? I would really like peoples opinions on those articles, and also about certain ignorant members. Should I post those articles in the Bowling For Columbine thread as well?

I, for one, would really like to see the articles you mentioned in the Bowling for Columbine thread, thanks.

JN, nope. Thats my 2 cents on it. Mr. Moore's opinions aren't something that keep me up nights nor am I that passionate about it one way or another...just a passing note on accuracy and the difference between research and entertainment. I think we all agree from what I've read. I'm good with that.