A good handgun for home defense?

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo the Makarov's ammo is just way too expensive.

$7.45 per 50 plus shipping isn't expensive to me, at gun shows I'll pick it up for under $7.

www.dansammo.com...

As for Makarov versus Hi Point - one has a modern DA/SA trigger with a built in safety/decocker, is compact enough for concealed carry, extremely accurate and boringly reliable. The other is a Hi Point.

If you want plenty of independant opinions on Hi Point pistols, read on...

www.thehighroad.org...

[edit on 12-3-2006 by Winchester Ranger T]

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
In all probability, a BAD semi-auto pistol could jam about every 6 shots which is pretty extreme, while a revolver has only 6 shots (granted they all fire with complete reliability), so I don't see the point why to shy away from a semi-auto for self-defense and home-defense...

...I suppose personal preference is the biggest issue here, a semi-auto affords more rounds in the mag and has better follow-up shot capability since it's semi auto, a revolver has to be recocked or you have to pull the trigger double-action (which is pretty rough I believe), granted I have never had experience with revolvers so I couldn't judge very well in this case.

Another issue is simply cost, most reasonable revolvers are around 250-300 bucks, 150 for junky ones like Nagants and other relics, a Hi-Point .40cal is only 150 bucks and has excellent reliablity, more so than many other guns.

It's not just the stoppage issue which steers people towards a revolver (which you rightly point out is not a major issue with modern pistols anyway). The ease of use in a high stress situation, ease of maintainance, ability to store in condition 1 with no degredation in working parts are all other reasons.

When storing a revolver, you can leave it loaded for bear ready to go without having to worry about mag spring degredation etc. When you do go to use it, all you have to do is point and squeeze. If a round fails to fire the IA drill is to squeeze the trigger again. There is no racking of slides, depressing safetys, decocking etc (depending on handgun).

Don't get me wrong, I carry a semi for personal protection, but I practice with it regularly and keep it servicable, regularly empty and rotate mags etc, so I am sure it will fire when I want it to.

Not everyone is a "gun" person, and a home defence weapon in a "keep ready, use little" weapon. This lends itself well to revolvers.

[edit on 12-3-2006 by PaddyInf]

Semi Autos have vastly improved in accuracy and reliability in the last twenty years. This is obvious by the number of professionals who use them in thier daily occupations. IT is today just a matter of preference in home defense. Most professionals are issued a standard weapon. Around here most carry Smith and Wessons .45ACPs for the local constabulary. Sigs for many of the private security companys in .40 caliber.
For some people large capacity magazines seem to be one the major drawing cards in these weapons. That never particularly appealed to me.
I just happen to be a wheel gun person. I own a Colt Government .45ACP and carry it on occasion. Mine has been accurized and shoots tight groups if need but mostly I carry my revolvers..Just personal preference.
What ever one acquires for home defense..I suggest one invests in reliability/dependability and also practices with it ...alot. Know your weapon. No substitute for practice.
My occupation is a machinist in shipbuilding. Most of the tools in my tool box are mine personally. Many I have modified slightly to perform better or for a specific task. By practice and experience one learns to spot and identify a practical but superior tool..instinctively. A gun as a tool is no different. Experience teachs one alot. Develope the instinct by practice..know your tool.

Oh....by the way..to give you a example of not suited for home defense as per my previous post.
Up at the gun club there are some members who shoot a category called Free Pistol. Some of them have absolutely beautiful pistols. Very lovely beautiful wood work on thier pistols. Wood handgrips sculpted to thier hands ...large oversized bottom plates on them for when they set them on the table between shots. Very expensive setups. Not suited at all for home defense. Strictly target shooting but none the less..beautifuly tooled and sculpted firearms.
I own a Thompson Contender pistol 14 inch barrel. Beautiful wood work on it from the factory. Mine is in caliber .223. First time I shot it out in the woods leaning up against a tree..I scratched the wood. Took it home immediately and bought rubber replacement grips. The wood is too beautiful to be scratching it up. This is a single shot..obviously not suited for home defense compared to my revolvers or Colt Government.
But...she is a beautiful looking tool. Obviously I purchased her to spoil myself. If you can hold her steady she is accurate too and at some pretty long ranges. Everything else I purchased for more practical reasons.

Thanks for your post Ground Zero,
Orangetom

I posted earlier but I feel I must reiterate. I have shot the Beretta 9mm before. It's possibly the lowest recoil 9mm i've ever shot. About like a .22 even. The price tag was hefty though, even for a used one. My S&W 40 was $350 brand new w/2 10 rd. mags. I bought 2 15 rd. mags for it too. The same caliber in Beretta was about $500 and up. S&W a very reputable name in the firearm industry so I felt comfortable purchasing it. Now the problem you have with semi-autos hanging up is when you get a cheap one (about $150 brand new). My friend has a "cheap" .380 and we were shooting at the range. His gun jammed about every 5 shots or so. I've probably shot about 500 rds. through mine so far and it has never jammed once. A revolver is still a pretty good choice for home defense but the technology of semi's is pretty damn good these days. The only thing I can say is go out and test some out. A shooting range usually has a variety of guns to rent. Just find one you're comfortable with (no smaller than .38, no larger than .45 IMO). Hope I helped out any. Peace.

I'm for a sawed off 12 ga with pistol grip giving you an overall length of 18 inches(call mine stubby). I can shoot it one handed, the recoil is all in the palm. Plus the pump has a very distinctive sound, the perp will know that you have a gun and that it is loaded once he hears you chamber a round. The shorter length allows you to round corners easily and you dont have to worry about them grabbing the barrel and trying to wrest it from you. You can also put in a bird shot that wont penetrate walls and endanger family members. At close range the bird shot has knock down power and if not you can always rack off a few more in a short amount of time.

Even though the HR says a non-gun enthusiast wouldn't buy a HP I think I will most definitly buy one, I love weapons esspecially firearms, the Hi-Point personally appeals due to it's reliability, the calibers that it's available in and it's accuracy.

Ergonomics definitly suck, it looks like crap but it functions just fine, and besides, as soon as I have more money, I will get that Sig I always wanted.

I know it's not a handgun, but here's my newest method of home defense.




Almost bought an AR clone, but dammit this Mini-14 is just beautiful. Plus it's blowback operation keeps the internal parts much cleaner than the AR's gas operation.

Hey cool mini-14! is it reliable at all?

I always thought the Mini-14 was an oddly ellegant looking gun.

Yes they are reliable. I even shoot my lousy reloads out of mine with good reliability. Mine is just like the one in the picture but in blued not stainless. Same stock too. .223 caliber but as I understand it now days they also come in 7.62X39mm just like the AK series of rifles. Thats 30 caliber for those in Rio Linda. As I recall these rifles are called "Mini 30s.
These rifles have gone up $200 to $300 in the last 15 or 20 years.
They are not what I would consider as accurate as the AR series rifles but more reliable.

Nice rifle in the picture..Thanks,
Orangetom

Orange,

Fire your SKS yet?

Everyone else...well, Paddy once again has it down. Revolvers, especially .38/.357 are THE choice for home defence. Even if you're experienced, a revolver is a better bet. Indefinite storage, great reliability, perfect accuracy- that's why cops carried them for years.

DE

No I have not fired my SKS as of yet. Hoping to get in some time this weekend.
Plan to purchase about 50 rounds to see how it shoots then if it is satisfactory I will be looking for ammo in the 500 to 1000 round amounts.
I have been looking on line and in magazines and have been astonished at the inexpensiveness of this surplus military ammo. Most of it steel cases.
I do plan to get some factory brass and make some special loads if I am satisfied with the performance.

Also agree with Paddy and others on the .38 caliber. I Like my wheel guns. .38 is fine for home defense and I like to shoot my light reloads for practice. I've put about 2000 rounds through my wheel guns ..mostly light lead tip reoads. When I have them on line for defense or carry I use Jacked Hollow points in .38 or .357. 125 gr. or 158 gr. bullet weights. I usually prefer the heavier bullet.
Nothing against you auto fans but I love my wheel guns.

Thanks to all for your posts,
Orangetom

Here's my personal suggestion.

Handguns are good and all. I'd suggest the Hecklar and Koch 9mm that is kind of modelled after the walther PPK. A decent .45 calibre revolver is a good idea to as mentioned earlier by somebody. Revolvers will usually never fail on you but with only 6 bullets it's kind of risky. And if you don't have speedloaders even more risky when the going get rough.

However to kick it up a notch I'd get a M1 Carbine from WWII. It's lightweight, a child could fire it. There's a paratrooper version with a foldable stock that cuts down on the length too which is key. It's the perfect weapon for close quarters.

It won't let you down and it's a little more intimidating then a dinky handgun.

You can get them almost anywhere, get them at a good price and many are still in really good condition. They were designed to actually replace the Colt 1911 because the carbine fires a pistol bullet thats on steroids. Good for ranges up to 300 metres.

15-30 round clips. You could even customize your own magazines to hold 50 bullets if you wanted too.


[edit on 8-4-2006 by Crazy_Mr_Crowley]

This is your home. You're not on duty. If you need more than six rounds, I'd be pretty worried. Is a small army coming through your window? A .357 is more than enough to put a man down- it is, in fact, the golden standard as far as manstoppers go.

For a longarm, go shotty. No questions asked, hearing the sound of someone racking the slide in the dark induces serious sphincter action. Plus, buckshot is just about the only thing that stops a man better at those ranges. Again, top of the line for manstopping is 000 buck. Plus, a shotgun is cheap, and fairly easy to come by. A winchester defender is my personal pick- 3 inch magnum shells will reduce most people's torsos to salsa.

DE

no no no what you want is the james bond pp7 you CAN actually buy a working model of this gun but i cant find a link to it... it works great in the game anyway...

No you CANT find a working model of the "pp7" because it doesnt exist. Your "pp7" is a computer game weapon that is modeled after the REAL Walther PPK, and renamed for copyright reasons. But this thread is to discuss REAL guns suitable for home defense

In any case the Walther PP&PPK wouldnt be very good home defense guns beause they have a relatively low magazine capacity and only work with rather weak cartridges. There is a reason why in Germany they have the nicknames "Heeresanklopfgerät" (roughly "Army´s door knocking device") or "WaltHerrchen" ("Herrchen" is the minorizing form of "Herr"= master).

The reason why James Bond uses these pistols is that they are a. considered gentlemen´s weapons; b. they are very small and thus suitable for concealed carry - not an issue for home defense; and c. James Bond is supposed to be effective with anything - he wouldnt need a big pistol to kill anyone.

Anyway, even Bond has raised his game - Now uses a P99 in 9mm. Gotta love his choice, the P99 makes me feel all warm and fuzzy in my special place.

The P99 may be all fancy, but 9mm? Cut me some slack. I was never a 9mm apologist, myself. The pistol that's caught my eye lately is the FNP in .40SW. I mean...no such thing as a poorly-made FN Herstal weapon.

DE

FN HPDAs are unreliable and inaccurate, at least the models made in 1980's for FDF, you get aproximately 1 malfunction in every 50 shots and they can't shoot a proper group from 25m...
I'm not saying that the newer guns are bad, but even FN has made some poor examples before

Superfreaky, considering that they've been making HPs for close to a century. Of well, maybe it's the whole 'we're finns' thing. Bound to have a run, but I'm still skeptical. The CFs have been using basically the same HPs since the Korean War.

DE

I still havent fired my SKS as of yet but I did get a surprise earlier this week.
I managed during one of my rounds about town to buy some 7.62x39 mm ammunition. It comes in 20 round boxes and was spire point ..or soft point ammunition. For 20 rounds it was $2.75 per box. I was shocked. I bought about 100 rounds or 5 boxes. I cant reload this stuff for less than that. It is steel cased berdan primed so my reloading equipment will not work. Besides I dont care to try reloading steel cases.
If I am satisfied with the performance of this rifle I will purchase about 100 brass cases and set them aside for special loadings.
Though it is not the same caliber 30.06 ammunition goes for about 15 to 18 bucks for twenty rounds. This 7.62x39 ammo is really cheap. A real eye opener.

Spring breaking here and alot to do around this house. I suppose I will probably wind up just saying the heck with the work and go have some fun checking out this rifle...if im going to " get her done!!"

THanks,
Orangetom