Got a small question.

Originally posted by uIVIa

So I think in the end it's a moot point. And keep in mind that a hierarchy is kept in place by keeping the upper level knowledge secret. So how could those within the pyramid structure surpass those at top?

I give you that we maybe to interested in creating, but human nature isn't like that. Just look at the present world scenario, we as america could be more concerned about creating but we go to war more often then not. This is human nature, we will in my mind be like this in the future with other races. As for the upper level knowledge are you talking about their existence, or upper level technology? The only way to keep their existence hidden is to destroy us before we get to a level near them. Now to keep technology from us would be to enslave us as a race, they could do this with the greys.
But then as a species we aren't a very good slave race, we are to intelligent and to war like. If this scenario happen, we could only be enslaved for so long, before we found a way to fight back. In enslaving us we would gain technology well beyond what we need to find out about them.

Originally posted by Jay
I give you that we maybe to interested in creating, but human nature isn't like that. Just look at the present world scenario, we as america could be more concerned about creating but we go to war more often then not. This is human nature, we will in my mind be like this in the future with other races.

For me though, the nature of humans is personal. My nature is not to be warlike. Is your nature to be warlike? Almost everyone I know has a peaceful, amicable nature. If we didn't there wouldn't be much cooperation, IMHO. I am not going to change my nature because a minority of loud people think killing people is an answer. I will also not group all humans into this group because there are billions that really just want to have a nice quiet life with a decent family. In other words I don't personally identify with that aspect of human nature. And given that wars are usually started by a handful of people at the top of the pyramid, there appears to be billions like me.

As for the upper level knowledge are you talking about their existence, or upper level technology? The only way to keep their existence hidden is to destroy us before we get to a level near them.

Yes, I was referring to technology and higher level knowledge in general. Just look at the Masons for this type of secret pyramid structure. A 33rd degree has the most knowledge and the most power. A 3rd degree depends on the upper levels to slowly disclose their secrets. But they will only disclose when they know the levels below them are in line. That's how you keep power over others.

Now to keep technology from us would be to enslave us as a race, they could do this with the greys.

Or they could do it with our own governments. Just promise the guys at the top what they want, power over others. Give them some crappy outdated technology and they'll serve you without a second thought. Then you don't have to get your hands dirty.

But then as a species we aren't a very good slave race, we are to intelligent and to war like. If this scenario happen, we could only be enslaved for so long, before we found a way to fight back. In enslaving us we would gain technology well beyond what we need to find out about them.

That's somewhat true but not exactly my point. For those that identify with the power stucture they will be kept in line by those above them or will be taken out. I see us as a very good slave race in fact. The majority fall quickly in line when faced with death or pain. If you are told to do something with an AK47 in your face, are you going to do it?

It's enslavement by free-will. They get you used to these pyramid structure through jobs and such. If you work for a company do you have the power of a CEO? And even if you had the knowledge of the CEO would you be allowed to make the decisions and go over his/her head? No, you would be fired if you tried. Same with the power stucture we see in society today. If you actually try to take out the power structure or go over their heads they will have a nice parting gift for you.

This is just my thoughts through careful observation. They may not be correct for everyone or anyone for that matter. They are how I see things though. I don't wish to take part in the pyramid structure but in order to survive I have to. But I will not allow them to enslave my mind by my own free-will. The body is fine, it dies soon enough anyway. Plus I learn a lot from their ways.

Edit: Just look at society today as a microcosm of how an alien race would enslave us. They would enslave us by our own free-will.

[Edited on 9-10-2003 by uIVIa]

about interplanetary ethics and universal politics...

is man ready for the truth...

are most men going to bow down and not possess freewill in doing such...

will there be an opportunity to be complete in all of mans ability before such "choices" if they can be called such....

life is very interesting in this time...

Yes this is a very good discussion. I agree with your whole pyrimaid structure theory uIVIa. But here is the thing, even now in our own country more then enough people are getting tired of the way things are going. I don't think its enough yet, but one day it maybe enough to change things. As for what i do, i happen to be in an arm of the government, and know full well the chain of command. Yes i have problems with the way things are going, and wish to change them.
I only do what i have to do to get along, but after hours i don't follow any sort of norm. I happen to be an out side the box type of guy. Alot of people i do hang with are the same, and in the future it will be us who will have to stand up for what is right. I don't think as a whole all of the human race could be enslaved by their free will. Its not cost effective to do it, to many people have access to the preverbly "Big Red Button." I think that if it got really bad on this planet, someone would launch a strike to end it all.

The other day i was watching a show on deep sea life, and they were talking about the creatures the live near the ocean vents. Almost a total sulfur environment, could this be a possible model to use for the search on other planets for alien life forms( or on moons of other planets in the system).

This is why Europa is under such scrutiny. We believe that the same kind of life may be present in it's vents...

This is why Europa is under such scrutiny. We believe that the same kind of life may be present in it's vents...

Yes i just very recently heard of the finding of some type of liquid on or underneath the surface of Europa. The only problem is getting a rover/lander there and safely. Which brings up a whole new set of problems, considering how many probes we lost in the last 10yrs going to mars. But worth keeping an eye on for future news.