Does everyones idea of "aliens" not have any logic??

Erm, status quo, how do you know that? Its not in the encycopedia and hasnt been on the news or anything. Are you related to an alien soldier? What/how do you know that allows you to speak with such conviction?

This is the trouble with this subject, it cant be scrutinized or debated in a serious manner because of the ludicrous claims made by the deluded or fantasists.

Originally posted by acura_el2000
so your saying alien visitors are actually artists who travel for light years, find a nice crop, and do some neat little circles, then take off and head back thousands of light years, to there home?
ya, id say crop circles are undeinable proof of aliens....

Crop circles are undeniable proof of alien (litteral meaning) activity, they don't say a thing about star drives or technology in general (other than what's required to create them, of course). The motivation is obviously there, and even though we fail to grasp the ideas behind it, there is still a reason.

I don't know who's actually doing this, might as well be secretive people from thiis planet, fact is that proficiency in mainstream science is not enough to create a crop circle in perfect symmetry without a single broken shaft in it.

[edit on 2-3-2006 by Long Lance]

Originally posted by Knight783
Crop circles are a confirmed hoax, it was a couple of blokes in England having a laugh after visiting the pub. An alien civilisation advanced enough to master space travel would not communicate by flattening corn into patterns, its silly! An its a CONFIRMED hoax!!!

Shows how little you know.

Please refer to the threads 'Crop Circles 2004' and 'Crop circles 2005'. Not all crop circles are made by aliens, but some quite obviously cannot have been made by any human technology.

And I doubt 3 drunk blokes can make amazing, above laser precision shapes which are more complex than anything ever seen, out of crops....

Originally posted by Knight783
The flying saucer pics are always dubious.

No, they are not.

Originally posted by Knight783 Again, its a primitave human notion of alien craft. The first saucer pic there on the last post is soooo staged, its like a promo pic. The others are equally unconvincing, they look very 1950's film set like and confirm nothing.

Please review websites like ufoevidence.org with thousands of UFO pics.

Not even any significant portion of them are made up. Most are from many years back, when computers didnt even exist (as they do now), so they could not have been made up.

Originally posted by Knight783Also, the fairly recent revelations about the deliberate government plan to generate belief in ufo's to deflect attention from top secret zero-point aircraft should explain a lot of the strange sightings of crafts in the skies.

These aircraft are made from alien technology.

Supose you want to dismiss hundreds of thousands of witness testimonies too?

Tell me when you wake up from your wet dream


Same message to all other people, with unintelligent enough not to believe that aliens have visited earth.

Its simple geometrical techniques, you can create the most wonderfully symettrical patterns with a plank of wood and a rope. Elaborate as you like, I have SEEN this demonstrated. It is also not as symetrical and wondrous looking up close, still clever, but certainly not every grain in place! Your looking at aerial pictures which makes them far more impressive.

But, just assuming this wasnt what I say it is, where does the assumption that its Aliens communicating come from? Why couldnt it be a natural phenomenon, magnetics, animals, human occultists, anything! We as humans create astonishing geometrics millions of times more advance than these circle, wristwatches for example, wow! Even we are way above crop circles people, let alone ET!!!

Maincloak, the very fact you are alluding to laser technology should show you how ludicrous your statements are!!! We have invented lasers, electricity, motors, space craft, it goes on and on. And your saying that we arent capable of making a symetrical crop circle. Think about it!

We have actually created microscopic watches, microscopic! How can you possibly claim we couldnt create these circles, however good? And they are not laser precision either btw, the very nature of the material (crop) and the fact that they are strands mean laser precision does not work, it is totally unaplicable!

Originally posted by Manincloak

These aircraft are made from alien technology.

Supose you want to dismiss hundreds of thousands of witness testimonies too?

Tell me when you wake up from your wet dream

Same message to all other people, with unintelligent enough not to believe that aliens have visited earth.

Would Alien technology not be advanced enough to have a cloak? Would they have such little regard for security as to make themselves visible to the naked eye? Do you have a solitary shred of ACTUAL proof?

I believe there is life elsewhere, totally. I dont have a childs simplistic view that they fly in tiny space ships, similar to those in human comic books, and that they make patterns in crops to communicate.

It is you who are living in a wet dream my friend, I hate to mock but I didnt start this tone. To have such a simplistic view illustrates your depth of mind.

Aliens could be hostile easiley if you think about it their planet could be dieing due too recorses or even their Sun is running short of energy,they see us a less intelligent species and beleive we have colonised most the planet and they wouldn't be able too live among us too well as they need different foods etc...

Plus it's like us our planet is dieing we find a new Earth world but we find a species like Cavemen ruling the planet,would we still take over it for our survival yes we would as they are less inteligent we beleive we would do greater good on the planet,could be the same for aliens.

Originally posted by acura_el2000
Shaman, in reference to you saying that I am going with what popular movies say aliens are here for, I'd like to quote the rest of what you left out of my previous statement.

"I tend to think that for the large amount of years UFO's have been sighted, if these are aliens first attempts at studying us thats gives an extremly advanced race, a long time to come up with a battle plan to attack us. HOWEVER, I do not feel that is the goal of any visitors. Even if the race was infinatly more inteligent then us, think of the opotunities and insight it would give them to perhaps there own development. Think of it in our history, what if we could view the cavemen, even though we have nothing to gain from them, we have a chance to discover were early civilization started, rather then scientific speculation. "



now I wonder why you made it sound like I watch to many movies??

I didn't mean to sound like I was implying that you watch too many movies, only pointing out that the "Fear" you alluded to was a popular one.

I could have quoted you further , and I think what you said was very intelligent , but I simply wanted to point out that one popular assumption did not fit with the observations over the years.

I couldn't have said what you said any better myself , I simply would not have addressed the fear. I was only pointing out that the "fear" is a normal human emotion but it is worthless when evaluating cause and effect relationships.

So I agree 100% with your assessment that any "visitors" are not here to "attack" us.

[edit on 3-3-2006 by lost_shaman]

I also have had doubts at times...

then i just look up...

after i wrap my mind around the science that i do know well, the science that i kinda get (quantum mech) + the massive number of stars, planets,+ parrellel evolution due to parrellel environment+ the curiousity of the human mind, and the evidence that other species have it also= A very large possibility that we are being visited...

You will notice that I didn't mention even once, a story/legend/eyewitness account of UFO's...
I dont need them to be all but convinced...

just gravy ...

Its nearly impossible for any human to try to grasp the logic of advanced alien bieng, and lets face it if they can come all the way to earth from another planet they are so much in advanced of us its not even funny.

It could be like a cockroach trying to understand humans logic. No human is going to waste their time trying to make contact with such a lower species.

They come here do whatever they want study us like we study bugs perhaps and there is nothing we can do to stop them. Why would any advanced species want to make contact with such a lower warlike race? So humans can just try to leech technology off them. What could humans offer in any such contact aliens couldnt get by themselves.

I think that no race, no matter how advanced they are, will be comparing us to cockroaches, unless cockroaches on their planet, build houses, have jobs, has a government, etc. We would be looked at as a lower evolution of thought, not a lowly bug. I think they would have interest in seeing how less advance species interact. Why does any one study history? they were less advanced then us in the past, be we still dedicate a great deal of time studying it. Imagine if we could see less advanced people living, people would love to study them. and observe.

I wouldnt be so certian about that, Humans have considered other humans about as highly as bugs and thats our own species and there wasnt a really huge technology gap like their would be with aliens. Just imagine if one group of humans was a million years more advanced then another.

Maybe I should have used ants as a example they build houses, have jobs, they farm and have their own form of government (communism)

If any Aliens ever came to earth with hostile intentions it wouldn't be a war it would be a extermination for them like fumigating for bugs.



[edit on 3-3-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by lost_shaman
For instance in a game of Chess , there is no Logical first move. There are
many first moves that correspond to certain strategies and those are
dependant on the goals of the player.

Most logical first move in my chess game? Leave the table. I'm pretty sure a tortoise could make me look bad at chess.

I know...short and off topic. Couldn't help it.

Why is it, that when we discuss life on other planets, and the logic behind aliens coming to visit us here on Earth, that we so often assume they would need to follow OUR logic and live in conditions that WE find satisfactory?

you seem to just as readily assume that they wouldent? Could It not swing both ways equally?

Originally posted by acura_el2000
As far as the president not knowing about aliens, and other people running the government. I belive that this is true, however the president is elected as a public representative of the U.S. and since this visit is the very first, the aliens would contact him, and he would be the one to break the news to the public. I cannot belive that we have made contact with aliens, and some military dude is puffing away on a cigar in a dark room, hiding alien information from the world.

It's possible - But i don't know if some military dude is puffing away on a cigar in a dark room, hiding alien information from the world. The diffucult thing is - Who knows..And who don't..

First thing is....
How do we keep a secret?
How is it done..? On a daily basics - Lies are being told everywhere around this globe. Some stuf are never talked about... And secrets can last for ages...
And the acces thing... Key card... Codes..and protocols..

It's very complex... Very very complex....

I don't know...

(thx for reply anyway )

I'm not someone who has a similar view. Psychopaths believe that they are smarter than everybody else or just as smart as everybody else without any real evidence. They are definitely smarter than the average bear but they let it go to their head. Once you figure them out and the way they think it is fun to pretend to be the fool they always take you for and then trip them up. Some aliens believe we are ruled by psychopathic know it alls. I'm not calling you a psychopath though.

Originally posted by acura_el2000
I have come to my opinion that, Aliens have not yet visited earth. I do not claim there are no Aliens in our universe, I actually think that would be impossible. Considering the amount of stars, in our galaxy, there MUST be a number of intelligent life forms.

Considering this fact, I have come to the conclusion that, for aliens to be visiting Earth in the fashion that they are apparently doing, they would have no logic. Think about it, for such a long time we have been visited by "ufo's" that simply fly there hyper advanced crafts into our atmosphere, do a little show of there skills, then dissapear again. This makes no sense, I think that we would see evidence of logic, similar to ours. They would send satillietes, then send unmanned probes, and then they would send a crew to make contact with the intelligent species.

I dont think the government would hide contact with aliens from the public, because, frankly, saying it would cause mass hysteria, is bull. It is all in the way the information is presented. If the president were to make an address to the United states, he could say, we have made contact with intelligent life, and they are coming to visit and do research of our planet, people would not freak out, they might question weither or no they mean us harm, but proper coverage on tv, newspapers, etc. would convince the general public that this is a good thing.

I also like to think that sometimes that we might be the most intelligent life forms in this solar system, it is just as possible, after all, as every other lifeforms being far more superior.

I am not saying everyone is wrong, or that I am right, I would just like to know if there is anyone who shares a similar view as I do?

el2000:
I am assuming nothing. It could swing both ways and they could follow our logic, but just because WE wouldn't behave a certain way doesn't mean the aliens would do the same.

Sorry acura, I can't say it was aimed at you, but I hope you agree with the fact that people on this board has some pretty wierd opinions, no? I'm just generalizing you, not paying attention to your real agenda, putting you into that folder without even having a second look.

Overall, I think it's just very, very difficult for us to think like an alien, if there are such things. Because if there are such things, it might be just impossible for us to even grasp their reasons for doing what they do. They may not even experience TIME the way we do, one moment to the next. So flying here across billions of light years is as simple as walking to the store to get milk. They may not even be moving "forward" in time, and may even be moving through it "backward" from our perspective. So we might only see them doing odd things for no apparent reason because we're only seeing them as we pass by them in time, they going their way, we going ours. Like expanding ripples in a pond, intersecting but not necessarily interacting except in a very limited way.

And time is only one dimension. Our species evolved only needing to gather information from a few of the many possible spatial and temporal dimensions. An alien might interact with multiple dimensions in ways we can't even imagine.

That's the big problem. A hard as we try, our brains may just not set up to comprehend what an "alien" is, or how they might think. As a result, all we get are odd glimpses of incomprehensible things, doing things that make no sense, or are just impossible according to the way we understand the way reality works. And we scratch our little monkey heads raw in the process.