Iran plans to shut down Persian Gulf, strike USN & Saudi if attacked, page 3

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 02:33 PM

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WHY would they attack Saudi Arabia?? This makes no sense.

An attack on Saudi Arabia would be an attack on the US (and the rest of the western world) by proxy. Can you imagine the economic chaos if some Iranian missiles slammed into a couple of refineries in Saudi? At best Saudi oil production would drop for a short time, at worst it could be crippled for months.

Senor_Vicente

posted on Mar, 4 2006 @ 05:58 PM

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The Sosus Line runs from Iceland to the U.K and it basically acts as a tripwire for any subs coming out of Russia, not to sure if they expanded it. As for minefields and noismakers and nonsense, the US subs would use a special type of sonar called MIDAS I believe or if they really had to then they would go active and that would give them a very detailed picture of everything out there. While my dad was in the navy the Soviet Union broke up and all the small countries that had Russia's ships in their port said that these are our ships because they are in our port so Russia steamed as fast as she could all her ships back to Murmansk, My dad said that he had some extremly good chances to record the different sound characteristics of each since was running full speed.

donwhite

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 09:01 PM

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Originally posted by orangetom1999[/I]
You guys need to think this business about the Persian Gulf and the 21 miles wide straits [of Hormuz] through a lot more. The Strait has TWO one mile wide channels spaced 2 miles apart. [Edited by Don W]

Iran has not forgotten the July 3, 1988, shoot-down of the Iran Air A300 killing all 290 people on-board. The U.S. Guided Missile Cruiser, USS Vincennes, carelessly fired two SM-2ER antiaircraft missiles at the plane. The U.S. claimed the ship’s radar had mistaken an F-14 for the A300. Hmm? If our radar was that bad, I hope we don’t have a real war. Or, when is a bad lie worse than no lie at all? Memories die slowly in the Middle East. Revenge is sweet!

What are the operational patterns of diesel class submarines? When must they come up and snorkel to recharge? This information is undoubtedly known already particularly about the Kilo class boats. You can put the submarines first on the target list . . because the pucker factor in the event of a loose submarine . . Don’t you think this information is already known and catalogued? [Edited by Don W]

I agree, O/tom, the U.S. will know all about Kilo class subs. I guess this is part of the USN War Plans Group responsibility? To be ready for ANY potentiality.

I don’t know the status as to the developmental level of Tomahawk missies . . deep penetration abilities . . I think this is better done by F117As . . carrying specialized ordinance. Thanks, Orangetom [Edited by Don W]

Have you ever noticed that in the 1st Gulf War, we saw ONLY 26 different photos of our SUPER bombing capability? Just 26, by actual count. I heard one general claim before a Congressional committee, that the ACCURACY for the much touted laser guided bombs was “better” than 50%. I assume that means somewhat less than 50% of the 3,000 laser guided bombs MISSED the intended target? Hmm? We know for a fact the bombs hit SOMETHING! Homes. Hospitals. Schools. Mosques. Hmm? Collateral damage? ARE WE AS GOOD AT MAKING WAR AS WE SAY WE ARE GOOD? Could we try for once MAKING peace?

Seekerof

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by JamesinOz
How would the U.S. navy react to several CBG's being trapped in the gulf and under attack from Iranian anti-ship missiles?

Originally posted by donwhite
Geography Is On Iran's Side!

Geography may be on their side, but the question is not geography, but initiative, donwhite.

First off, the only way that a US CBG would be trapped in the gulf would be if Iran attacked pre-emptively first while a US CBG was in the gulf.

Secondly, if the Iranians wait to impliment such a plan in hopes of trapping a US CBG in the gulf after a US first strike, the US will have probably pulled any such US CBG from the gulf prior to a first stirke upon Iran, thus eliminating/nullifying the/an Iranian plan to trap and hit a US CBG in the gulf.

Thirdly, with such a hypothetical plan being implimented based on a first reponse by the US against Iran, Iran's air, land, and sea assets would be at the mercy of a US first strike, again eliminating/nullifying this particular Iranian plan.

Fourth, if the Iranians act pre-emptively when a US CBG is within the gulf in the hopes of trapping and then missile attacking it, they had better be dead on. Further, to sink a US capital ship such as a US carrier will undoubtedly reap a US response unlike anything Iraq ever had hit them or Iran could even image. Be assured that it would be utterly devastating for the Iranians.

seekerof

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Seekerof]

donwhite

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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[original posted by Chris McGee[/I]

WHY would Iran attack Saudi Arabia? This makes no sense.
An attack on Saudi Arabia would be an attack on the US by proxy. Can you imagine the economic chaos if some Iranian missiles slammed into a couple of refineries in Saudi? Saudi oil production would drop for a short time, at worst it could be crippled for months. [Edited by Don W]

Remember how Hurricane Katrina caused a RISE in gasoline prices? What do you think the permanent WITHDRAW of 2.6 million bbls a day from the world’s supply would cause to our prices?

FACTOID. The U.S. has 800 million bbls in its strategic reserve. I hope it is not at the famous Teapot Dome geologic structure the GOP so much favored under Warren Harding. The Navy was pumping oil in one side and the GOP crooks were pumping it out on the other side. We use about 14 million bbls a day foreign oil. The Reserve is a 57 days supply! (Not much.)

NOTE. Iran shares its 3,400 miles boundary with the following countries: Afghanistan 580 miles; Armenia 22 miles; Azerbaijan 267 miles; Azerbaijan-Naxcivan exclave, 110 miles; Iraq 903 miles; Pakistan 563 miles; Turkey 309 miles; and Turkmenistan 615 miles.

Iran can play havoc in Afghan, Iraq and Pakistan. Using leverage, a few Islamic “freedom fighters” from Teheran can cost the U. S. billions to defend against. It’s called
WHIPSAWING.

Seekerof

posted on Mar, 20 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
What do you think the permanent WITHDRAW of 2.6 million bbls a day from the world’s supply would cause to our prices?

You make some good arguments, donwhite, but lets put the shoe on the other foot, shall we: What would be the monetary repercussions for the Iranians if they pulled their oil from the world's supply?

Iran can play havoc in Afghan, Iraq and Pakistan. Using leverage, a few Islamic “freedom fighters” from Teheran can cost the U. S. billions to defend against. It’s called
WHIPSAWING.

Very true, but again, lets look at this from another perspective: Being that there are existing minority Muslim/Islamic factions, inside and outside of Iran, that are openly hostile to the Mullah run government of Iran, how much 'havoc' could they reek upon Iran if supported and aided in hardware by the US/CIA? How much of a monetary loss would the Iranians sustain from defending against them--further based on the loss of income from withdrawing those millions bbls of oil a day off the market? Do we need to contrast and compare each country's GNP?

seekerof

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Seekerof]

swesais

posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 07:36 AM
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Do you really think that your american combined forces will just go to Iran and winn??I know for sure that Russia is selling their newest Su-39 to China!!maybe China are selling them forward to Iran!?In that case your F-16 will be in big problems!!I read an article in Russian newspear that Russia is selling 50 units of russian version of ''Patriot"!!The war in Iraq was three years ago!!Im sure Iran has done something in does tree years!!!Yeah maybe American Military are better equiped but russian technologies in right hands can do also enough damdage!!!

donwhite

posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof[/I] You make some good arguments . . but lets put the shoe on the other foot . . What would be the repercussions for the Iranians if they pulled their oil from the world's supply?[Edited by Don W]

The same CIA website I referred to says Iran has a $40 billion foreign currency positive balance in 2006. My numbers said the Iranians would have about the same amount in oil income per year. Whipsawing! Levering! Just as Osama spent about $500,000 on the Nine Eleven event, and the U.S. has spent $400 billion in response, so also the Iranians would see the U.S. suffer at 100 to 1. Or more. For religion driven people a short period of suffering may be welcomed. As some kind of proof of something I don’t know about. Regardless, recall the Iranian GDP per person is $8,100 while the U.S. is $42,000. To be forced to park your 155 mph Porsche SUV will hurt the R&FS a lot sooner than doubling the waiting time for a bus will hurt the poor and poorer.

“ . . again, look at this from another perspective: there are existing minority Muslim factions, inside and outside of Iran, that are openly hostile to the Mullah run government of Iran, how much 'havoc' could they reek upon Iran if supported and aided in hardware by the US/CIA? Seekerof [Edited by Don W]

As if we are not already AIDING such groups? We invented the Shah’s very unpleasant SAVAK and I’m pretty sure the Ayatollah Khomeini retained it, at least as far as protecting Islam is concerned. Although we are “stuck” with Geo W until 2009, his standing in polls is still critical to his “legacy” which serves to some extent to keep him alert to the times. I am not sure there are any polls taken in Iran. Or that the Mullah’s care about the results.

I’m thinking, despite all the details, every poor country has the important “leverage” on the United States. And we will run out of credit sometime, probably sooner than later, before they run out of anti-U.S. government policies enthusiasm.

donwhite

posted on Mar, 21 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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swesais, member, Riga, Latvia. Common people! Do you think your American forces will just go to Iran and win? I know Russia is selling the newest Su-39 to China! Maybe China is re-selling to Iran? In that case your F-16 will be in real trouble! I read in a Russian newspaper that Russia is selling 50 units of Russian version of the ''Patriot" [to Iran.]! The war in Iraq began 3 years ago! I’m sure Iran has done some planning in those 3 years! Maybe American Military are better equipped but Russian technologies in right hands can do also serious damage! [Edited by Don W]

Sukhoi-39. Derived from the Su-25T, first produced in 1995. Ground attack plane. 2 Soyuz R-195 multi fuel jet engines of 42KN thrust. 9,900 lbs. Max takeoff wt: 47,500 lbs. Max speed given as 525 knots or 600 mph. 975 km/h. Range, 500 to 800 miles. Service ceiling, 33,000 ft. Weapons load, 10,000 lbs. This plane sounds like an old Soviet response to the Republic A-10 Warthog. Neither is a threat to an F-16. Neither is an air superiority plane. www.bearcraft-online.com/museum/museum.htm?mid=65

Lockheed F-16 C (single seat) and D (two seats). First mfg in 1979. Powered by 1 PW F100 or GE F110 of 27,000 lbs thrust. 120KN. Top speed Mach 2. Service ceiling, 55,000 ft. Gross TO Wt. 38,000 lbs. Combat Radii, 500 miles. Max Ferry Rings 2,500 miles. Arms. M61 20 mm cannon w/500 rounds. 16 attachment points for rockets and bombs. Max, 8,000 lbs.

PATRIOT. Although the Patriot was used in the 1991 First Gulf War, it’s capability was both exaggerated and mis-stated by the U.S. government. The Israeli government consented to “stand down” against Iraq when Saddam sent 45 Scuds towards Israel. The Israeli’s fear was the Scuds - like Germany’s WW2 V1, both notoriously inaccurate - would carry chemical or biological weapons (of mass destruction. They did not.)

All of the so-called “encounters” or “intercepts” we saw on CNN nightly tv were actually the Patriots being exploded purposely after having missed the target. The Patriot calmed the Israeli public’s concerns and saved the day for the Coalition Forces. 39 American soldier died when the only Scud to hit a good target experienced no trouble from the Patriots launched to intercept it over Saudi Arabia.

The ONE reason America’s military is so successful against other armed forces is the fact we train, train, and re-train our soldiers. Practice make perfect in any field but it is especially true in the deadly game of war. No other nation - maybe some in Europe - spend as much time and money on training their armies and air forces. Iran will not have the training our pilots and ground forces will have.

OTOH, as in 3 years we cannot PACIFY Iraq, so we could never pacify Iran. Too big. Too many. We should have learned that lesson in Vietnam, but American’s push Vietnam out of our collective minds. We cannot come to terms that a bunch of pajama clad barefoot irregulars beat 550,000 of the best trained, best equipped soldiers in the world. How’s that?

[edit on 3/21/2006 by donwhite]