The Anti-Intellectual Movement/Conspiracy

Originally posted by Conquistadork
Lately it has taken a turn for the worse. Not only is it bad to be smart, it's cool to be stupid now.



I have been thinking alot on this lately, and the more I delve into it, the more sinister it becomes. It's not simply the fact that they can record a beautiful young woman in her house not understanding the difference between chicken and tuna, but rather the fact that most Americans are becoming far too accustomed to the idea of "Stupid=OK".

How does the ATS public feel, are Americans being dumb-downed for sinister purposes, or am I looking too hard into this?

I've noticed this as well, and honestly i dont understand it.

I mean all while growing up, it was stressed on me to go well in school and then later go onto college ... but today having been educated is now used as an insult.

Maybe it's all one big conspiracy to dumb the entire population down, thus creating a need for some sort of body to guide us and tell us what's right and wrong... i really just don't know.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

I could care less what you do with your time, or why you have the opinions you do. It was you who was trolling this thread and you know it.

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Trolling indeed.

Like you had absolutely no comment, positive OR negative, on my 7 paragraph essay of various root causes of anti-intellectualism, and how it works against the interests of ALL americans, regardless of class or political tribe.

Nope, no comment on that, but so far you've accused me of . . . owning stuff, of daytrading, and of being a GOP Hack, which opparently means anyone who isn't already you.

Funny. You've called me a couple of different names now; "troll" seems to be one of your favorites.

Which is sourly ironic in a thread about "anti-intellectualism," where you seem dead-set against discussing the topic, and instead are looking for some kind of personal vilification to plaster over the cracks in your brittle ego.

But hey, if you'd like to comment on anti-intellectualism, as opposed to anti-left-ism, well just feel free to get started any time now.

If I felt your 7 points of bs (big story) was worth comment I would have commented on it.

It did kind of remind of the whole 1000 points of light thing GB1 tried to foist on us in the late 80's, though. A bunch of empty talk from a big windbag.

o.p. by you
1. The anti-intellectuallism in America is long-term and systemic.

o.p. by me
I would have to trace it back to the end of WWII.

Seems we may be in accord on point 1.

o.p. by you
It didn't start with Bush taking office in 2000, or even with republican control of congress in 1992-1994. It's ridiculous to try and affix blame on one party, when it permeates all sectors of society.

I never said it did, nor did I try to affix blame to one party. You ass-umed it.

A. The subsidizing of college. A lot of people can go to college who, frankly, were never really college material.

I disagree, and who are you to say who gets to go to college? My dad got a BS in Aero-Engineering from USC on the GI bill. He went on to get an MBA on his own.

B. The demise of literary culture

This is definitely a factor, but more of a symptom than a root cause, imo.

C. The rise of service/consumer economy

This has nothing to do with anti-intellectualism, and has more the appearance of a smokescreen, throwing some apples in with the oranges. This is, again, why I was dis-inclined to respond

2. The moneyed classes are just as victimized by the anti-intellectual climate in US, as everyone else

Ok, I agree again, but what does this have to do with the topic?

It was really only 2 points, with five subpoints, imo, mostly smokescreen. Honestly, I thought you were drunk or high on something and were just spouting off a bunch of crap to muddy the waters and derail the thread.

anti-intellectualism, and how it works against the interests of ALL americans, regardless of class or political tribe.

This is the truth, and I was not the one to bring social class or political parties into it. You were, by ass-umption.

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

I found it! Here it is in black and grey. A personal axe to grind. Who's trolling who, Mr. Seven Paragraphs?

o.p. by yourself
If I say you're being an idiot, and you ask me how to stop being an idiot, I'm supposed to have an answer for you. If I don't, then you'd be right in thinking that I just didn't like you, never would like you, and that you'd never be an o.k. person in my book.

And for a couple of hundred bucks, you can open an account with a commodities broker, and start buying and selling the rights to oil just like Exxon or Texaco do. Tens of thousands of people do this everyday, and you don't even have to be a US citizen to participate. you don't even need capital, in the futures market. It's called speculating. And anyone can do it.

I do.

So, you don't own any stocks, you speculate in the futures market, my bad.

Questionable Victory for Refinery Construction

There's the thread. Btw, record profits again for big oil last quarter. How'd you make out on that, anyway?


[edit on 28-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

If I felt your 7 points of bs was worth comment . . .

A bunch of empty talk from a big windbag. . . .

I thought you were drunk or high on something and were just spouting off a bunch of crap . . .

You were, by ass-umption . . .

What a bunch of ugly troll-blather. Personal attacks are no substitute for a substantive post, though.

o.p. by you
I never said it did, nor did I try to affix blame to one party. You ass-umed it.

Actually, I was talking to the originator of the thread. Not You. Other people type here too. Maybe someday you'll notice that ATS isn't your personal toilet.

A. The subsidizing of college. A lot of people can go to college who, frankly, were never really college material.

Is your dad a lot of people?

and I was not the one to bring social class or political parties into it. You were, by ass-umption.

Again, I was responding to the originator of this thread. Not You.


Since you've already used a fair bit of language that is probably warn-worthy, why don't you and I just ignore each other for the rest of this thread. If you want to say something personal to me, just u2u me instead of grandstanding in front of everybody and trashing some innocent bystander's thread.

In other words. Start putting the personal scatology in a u2u to me. But put only actual content in this thread.

.

Strangecraft, Id like to ask you to simply re-read the thread and drop this petty arguement.

I never said Bushco were behind it all, much like Icarus pointed it out, you assumed it. I simply used him as an example of how far this dumbing-down of society has gone outside of the public education system.

Please don't spoil what was a great conversation.

Also, it was Enkidu who first proposed the idea of class distinctions and how heavily it effected them versus the higher classes of society. Stop using my thread to argue, let's get back to what this was all about. I appreciate your input and relevant comments, but drop all of this other childish garbage.

[edit on 28/2/06 by Conquistadork]

I don't need any instructions from you, dr. I was responding to what I thought were statements directed at me. If I was mistaken, my bad. The history is there and plain to see, no grandstanding being done by me.

My apologies to you for rising to the bait, Conquistadork.

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
9/11 turned it loose like a runaway freight train barreling through our civil liberties and rights to privacy, leaving them crushed in its wake, and imperiling the very Constitution this great country was founded on. Yet many continue to cheer it on, oblivious to the fact that they will soon find themselves in the path of this insatiable beast, for its method is deceit, and it knows only destruction.

What do we do about it? Take the risk. Speak out about your beliefs. Go against the grain. Trust in the wisdom of our Founding Fathers, and the Constitution of the United States. Read the intro to "Common Sense", by Thomas Paine. Seek PEACE. Share it with others, network it. Bring the tactics of the fascists out into the light of day, and expose them for what they are, domestic enemies of the United States of America.

Introduction to Common Sense


Icarus, your post brought tears to my eyes. I couldn't agree with you more. This beautiful country, that was created by a abunch of courageous geniuses would be just fine if we stuck to the Constitution. Instead, it's been shredded, along with our Bill of Rights. I love Thomas Paine's writing, it gets at the soul of what America is/was/should be about, but are no longer. our country was hijacked by corporate interests and corruption and meanness became fashionable instead of compassion, common sense and respect for individual freedoms and rights.
Thanks, Icarus, for reminding me of Thomas Paine, I'm going to go dig out my copy and reread.

-Forestlady

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 28-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Getting back to the topic at hand...

Many great arguments have been made, but I have to disagree that this couldn't be a conspiracy. My evidence is: the Standards of Learning. Anyone who works (or knows someone who does) in public education knows that these "standards" do not improve the quality of education, but in fact degrade the quality. Instead of teaching critical thinking skills and general common sense, teachers are forced to "prepare" students to pass BS tests (which in turn discourages students).

Now standardized testing has been around for quite some time now, but only since around 2000 has it been a requirement to pass these tests in order to pass high school. The effect is enormous: starting in Kindergarten (in some states) this testing preperation begins, and dictates a large portion of your child's education. Now this isn't to say standards are bad, but when it forces students to memorize instead of learn it hurts more then it helps.

If it is a conspiracy, could it be a conspiracy to fail the public school system? If we went to a voucher system, wouldn't this make it easier to keep the elite elite and the poor uneducated?

IMHO, I don't know if it's a conspiracy or just another example of people legislating something they don't understand; my concern is that it intensifies the problem.

I have to agree. It has become a matter of enslavement to standardization rather than an effort to meet standards. Is this a result of desegregation, and the effort to provide the same quantity of education across the board, while sacrificing the quality of that education to a great extent? Somewhere along the line public education has gotten off track. Even the private schools have started doing the same thing with standardized testing throughout the curriculum.

There's definitely a conspiracy here. Dumb is cool now a days. Some of the kids at my daughters school drive me nuts. You can see that they are purposely acting dense. My favorite term " I don't know nuffin cept that m & m is da bomb".

This is all pushed by a neo comm media. Is there anything intelligent on MTV? VH1? or most any channel? Why all of a sudden are celebrities who are normally dumber than a box of rocks, suddenly supposed to be more informed about the world and current events than the White House? Acting in a movie or singing a song makes you an authority on world affairs now? Why does the media push this belief? Why can't you watch a show without a liberal slant?

Look how they push these celebs now. I'm dumb, can't act, but I look good and can party, that's what is important. Hardly conservative ideas.

Want to make it big in the music industry? Sing a song about how terrible the President is or conservatives are, or capitalism or Christians. It doesn't matter how bad that song is, it will be pushed on kids. The kids who do not like this "music" will be ostracized for not going along. I'm sure no one here is really going to argue that MTV and the kind are conservative.

How is it that I know who Eminem, snoopy dog, puff daddy...etc are? My old man had no idea who Led zepplin or Little River band were. It's because these no talents and their garbage are pushed on us 24hrs a day. Why? Music is a good source of light brainwashing. The more rage the better. Mindless rot.

Look at the schools these days. They don't teach kids how to think any more, they teach what to think. Look at the clown in Colorado. He's supposed to be teaching Geography!!!! It wasn't that long ago people were shocked to find out that a huge number of college grads couldn't locate France on a map. They must all be former students of this guy. He by no means is the only one waisting class time indoctrinating kids into neo comm thought instead of actually teaching. Kids spend more time in class learning how to recycle and be pc than learning how to read, write and do arithmetic. They purposely teach your kids nothing, then complain after the test scores come out that they don't have enough money. Odd how this nation spends more money on education than ever before and yet the kids year after year are getting more and more ignorant. Japans ed. budget isn't nearly ours and yet they turn out intelligent educated young adults. They aren't any smarter than we are.

Why do the neo comms hate school vouchers and charter schools for example? They may not be the end all solution to a failing educational system but it's definitely a step forward. How do you get a poor man with a child that has to attend a crime infested joke of a school to vote against getting to choose a school like rich people. Why do so many Dems send their kids to private schools but refuse to give the poor man the same chance. Why do they want the masses to continue sending there children to these brainwashing cool to be dumb schools?

Where I used to live the neo comms decided they were going to raise taxes and used the (as they always do) schools as the device to get them. Leftists care so much for the common man, lol. When the people voted against yet another tax hike, they closed a couple of schools. One tiny school that was inconsequential and the one charter school. This is mind boggling considering the fact that the charter school turned out far better educated kids for far less money than the rest of the public schools. This was the most efficient school in the area. Does a company close down its most efficient division? No, that would be stupid!!!! Is it because every kid that leaves public indoctrination is one more citizen they can't control? One more education they can't regulate?

What's the number one factor to ensure a life of near poverty? Lack of education. Isn't it true that by the lefts own propaganda, that the more money an individual makes, the more likely they will vote Republican? Who gains with a vast class of uneducated poor people? Persons living on food stamps, welfare, govt. housing and health care vote almost across the board Democrat. Why? Because the Dems tell them what they want to hear. You aren't poor because of anything you did. Vote for me and you'll get free health care. I'll make sure those rich Republicans don't touch your welfare checks or government supplied health care. Someone down on there luck and driven to dependancy on the govt will mostly vote Dem. Every person dependant on the govt. becomes a slave to the govt. The govt. controls you. With every person dependant on the govt., the govt. gets bigger and more intrusive. Again, who benefits from a large uneducated underclass? Would there be a Dem. party if there wasn't an underclass? We know old Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't make a living on race baiting. We know they would never fabricate an instance of racism for example for their own gain. Where do they work? If they would never do that then I'm sure the neo comms wouldn't do something along the same lines.

Corporations don't need laborers. Bush and the Dems make sure there's a steady stream of illegal aliens crossing the border. What they need are educated workers. The world is changing and technology is increasing at an incredible rate. Competition is fierce. They don't need uneducated laborers by any means.

There's a conspiracy to dumb people down alright. All you have to do is shut out the media for awhile to see it.

By the way, my daughter carries straight A's. MTV and the rest of that garbage isn't allowed in my house. Coincidence?

Originally posted by Enkidu
Intelligence is naturally bred out of most populations.

Most intelligent and financially successful people understand that a greater financial burden is placed on them with children. They also see the limitations to take advantage of riskier (but potentially higher gaining) opportunities that are placed on them when they have children. So they limit their reproduction. Stupid people, on the other hand, blessed with with more carnal sensibilities, more free time, a more encouraging social network, and all the skills necessary to perform the unskilled labor required to create children, do so with great enthusiasm. They also see each child as one which might manage to become successful and care for them in their old age.

So the poor and the ignorant have more children, which the successful and intelligent have less. It's no conspiracy, just simple economics at work.

You painted that with an awful broad brush stroke. Where'd you read that Mein kampf? Did I read that right? Are you equating success to genes? Or intelligence to how much money one earns? If I read that wrong, my apologies. True children are a financial burden but the Mexican farm workers children won't be any less intelligent than yours. The only thing preventing his children from succeeding is access to quality schools and a decent neighborhood to raise his children. If he has 5 children and atleast 3 of the 5 get a quality education and do well, it negates the ignorance and poverty of the parents. Ever been to Africa? That's ground zero for poverty but when given access to good schools, their kids are smarter than the average European or American child. The dumb won't out breed the intelligent. The uneducated might out breed the educated for numerous reasons.

Something is going wrong between being born and becoming a young adult. That's where the problem lies, not in genes. I believe it has become to easy to be poor in this country as odd or heartless as that may seem. The more socialistic this country becomes, the more benefits granted to the poor, the fewer reasons to become educated and become independent of the govt. I know people who are quite content to remain on govt. "assistance". There needs to be a better balance between providing a temporary safety net for those who fall on hard times and expecting people to take responsibility for themselves.

Another problem lies in, why should someone turning screws in an auto plant or some place similar expect to make 15$ an hour let alone 20-30. That requires very little education if any and very little training. So where is the incentive to become educated? There are very few penalties for not getting educated and striving to better your own life in this country.

I believe it has become to easy to be poor in this country

I believe you are wrong. I believe it has become too difficult for the average family to make ends meet. Hence both parents in many middle class homes are now forced to work full time in order to have a chance at a decent standard of living. Thats what's happening to kids between child- and young adult-hood. Many have been forced to become latch-key kids with little or no adult supervision of their after school activities, no input on homework, nothing. Add the MTV culture to that and we have many kids becoming just that between child and adult - hoods. Its sad.

There needs to be a better balance between providing a temporary safety net for those who fall on hard times and expecting people to take responsibility for themselves.

This I agree with. Giving up and going on welfare is not and should not be an option. But what's the answer to the destruction of the nuclear family and two parents working full time just to pay the mortgage?