Palestinian PM: If Israel Withdraws To '67 Borders, We'll Establish Peace In Stages

Ismail Haniyeh: If Israel withdraws to '67 borders, we'll establish peace in stages

Designated Palestinian prime minister Ismail Haniyeh, speaking about Israel, said: "We don't want to throw them into the sea." Haniyeh was interviewed for the Washington Post and Newsweek Magazine.


"We are not looking for a war and not initiating war. We are not interested in a circle of violence. If Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, then we'll establish peace in stages." (Yizhak Ben-Horin, Washington)

Faced with such a generous offer from the Palestinians how can Israel refuse?

If peace is their intent, and if they don't really want to steal the Palestinians lands, they would accept.

An end to the occupation.

Who could be against that?

How is this a generous offer? As I recall Isreal didn't start the 1967 war but responded when attacked. How do you establish peace in stages? Does that mean only half as many sucide bombers will be sent in to murder innocent men, women and children? Do you really believe that Haniyeh would actually negotiate in good faith? Surely you can't be that naive.

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
How is this a generous offer? As I recall Isreal didn't start the 1967 war but responded when attacked. How do you establish peace in stages? Does that mean only half as many sucide bombers will be sent in to murder innocent men, women and children? Do you really believe that Haniyeh would actually negotiate in good faith? Surely you can't be that naive.

You are mistaken.

The 1967 war began when Israel invaded in a sneak attack.

Flying low over the Med in a dawn raid they bombed Egypts airforces as they sat on the ground.

Not one Arab bomb fell on Israel, not one Arab tank crossed into her lands nor did one single Arab soldier.

They like to call it a pre-emptive attack, but thats just a nicey-nice word for denialists.

Well if I'm wrong so be it. However, I would sure rather do a preemptive strike and keep the fight on someone else's turf. Also oh wise one, why did Isreal feel the need for this strike?

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Well if I'm wrong so be it. However, I would sure rather do a preemptive strike and keep the fight on someone else's turf. Also oh wise one, why did Isreal feel the need for this strike?

Quit trying to hijack the thread.

Its about the Palestinian offer which I think is very generous.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Originally posted by gallopinghordes
Well if I'm wrong so be it. However, I would sure rather do a preemptive strike and keep the fight on someone else's turf. Also oh wise one, why did Isreal feel the need for this strike?

Quit trying to hijack the thread.

Its about the Palestinian offer which I think is very generous.

If I was trying to hijack this thread I would try a little harder.
How is this a generous offer? Especially when it comes from a group who would like to wipe Isreal off the earth. You still haven't anwered my question.

How is this a generous offer?

As Hamas has offered before it would include a renewable cease fire for as long as a generation.

As the elected leaders they could back it up.

At some point Israel will withdraw, yes?

Or at least give the Palestinians equal rights?

[edit on 25-2-2006 by ArchAngel]

Originally posted by ArchAngel

Its about the Palestinian offer which I think is very generous.

Hi AA,


I believe what you see as a good deal is nothing more than an attempt to blackmail Israel into releasing it's hold on land it has controlled for almost 40 years. That's a very cock-eyed method of delivering a peace proposal - we will continue to send our terrorists to bomb your civilian population unless you submit to our terms for a land-grab!!

I think you really have to re-think your priorities if you think this is fair??


Regards

J

[I]Originally posted by ArchAngel[/I]
If peace is their intent, and if they don't really want to steal the Palestinians lands, they would accept.

Wait, I missed something here.
What "Palestinians lands" are you referring to?
As far as I know there is no recognized state of Palestine, thus they have no lands.
Point out their lands on any modern map for me.
I can't find it on any of them.
I found these maps via a quick Google search to illustrate my point:
images.google.com...]images.google.com
Read the link closely, it claims to be a map of Palestine, however they all list the land's name as Israel and have little areas of Israel occupied land but no name on the occupied land.
Hmm, wonder why.

Where is this mythical Palestine for I see it not.


1000+ year old maps mean nothing in this modern world.
1000 years ago America was a giant wilderness with native peoples scurrying around on foot.
Things have changed, Brittan laid claim to her and drove the "Indians" away.
Then the "Americans" revolted and won their independence
They proceeded to kill and cheat the "Indians" from their land and took it by force.
Today there are small isolated areas of Native Americans in America, but there will never come a day when America gives up what they have won.

Nor should Israel.
They fought in a land with no name and carved out their place on the map.
I can find Israel on any map or globe.
Israel has been generous in giving as much as they have.

If this Palestine you speak of truly existed then it would take back it's land from Israel in war and diplomacy.
It would organize a revolutionary militia and take control of Israel by force if necessary.
That is how you get your name on the map, conquest, and conquest alone.
Terrorist suicide bombers and religious fanatics are not the way to win your independence, a well trained and regulated militia is.

A message to all "Palestinians"
Stop hating America for a second and learn from our history.
You could all have a nation to call home.
You need to build an army and overthrow your captors.
You need organization and diplomacy.
You could have your Palestine.
But you never will because your hatred blinds you.

[edit on 25-2-2006 by mrjones]

mod edit to shorten link



[edit on 25-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

AA, how important is time, tradition, culture, and history to you? Is there ever a statute of limitations on these things? If you think not, remember, KING TITUS ripped Israels land away from them, gave it to the Palestinians, then he made it trendy to persecute jews. They needed thousands of years to get back what was equally theirs.

90% of Palestinians work in Jewish shops. Isreal collects tax money for Palestine. These are signs of good gesture.

They've pulled their people from Gaza and West Bank (don't go reciting that they still occupy there). Do you remember when the Jewish clerics were pulled, kicking and screaming from their places of worship? Do you think they would offer the same? You try pulling a Muslim out of a Mosque. You can't even draw a cartoon of their God without unprecedented violence. These are not civilized responses, yet they may very well be civilized. AAC

1000+ year old maps mean nothing in this modern world.

The League of Nations Mandate for Palestine



Despite what you may have heard there was a nation called Palestine, and it existed where Israel, and the occupied territories are today from the end of WWI until just after WWII.



Palestine today usually refers to the territories occupied by Israel after the 1967 sneak attack.

The land did not belong to Israel before the Invasion, and they have never offered citizenship to the [now] more than four million people living there.

90% of Palestinians work in Jewish shops. Isreal collects tax money for Palestine. These are signs of good gesture.

They have little work at home because of Israeli travel, and trade restrictions along with random 24 hour curfues.

Israel has recently decided they are not going to give the Palestinians their tax monies.

Instead they are going to keep it in violation of the Paris accords in act representing warcrimes.

These are signs of an oppressor.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
The League of Nations Mandate for Palestine



Despite what you may have heard there was a nation called Palestine, and it existed where Israel, and the occupied territories are today from the end of WWI until just after WWII.



Palestine today usually refers to the territories occupied by Israel after the 1967 sneak attack.

The land did not belong to Israel before the Invasion, and they have never offered citizenship to the [now] more than four million people living there.

Even your modern picture does not show where Palestine is located.
The pre-WWI map does, but then again, a 1970's map would show the USSR.
As I said in my post, things have changed.
The Native Americans will never retake America, the USSR is not coming back, and Palestine will never exist again unless they change their terrorist ways and form a real military and defend their land.

Edit: Oh my god, you actually referenced the League of Nations!
ROFL, that was the most powerless entity ever.
They had no authority to grant land to anyone!
Show me a real map!

[edit on 25-2-2006 by mrjones]

Israel has recently decided they are not going to give the Palestinians their tax monies.

Instead they are going to keep it in violation of the Paris accords in act representing warcrimes.

These are signs of an oppressor.

Only after HAMAS was elected, which by the way stands by their removal ideology. Listen, I appreciate your empathy for these people, you have seen what others haven't. But I still think you could play an more even keel, don't you? AAC

Kinda sounds like this will play out almost like the July Ultimatum, Which led to World War 1. Read about it here it is interesting.

July Ultimatum was an ultimatum or final list of demands delivered to the government of Serbia on July 23, 1914, following the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo. The document was described as "the most formidable document that was ever addressed from one state to another" by British Foreign Minister Sir Edward Grey, and the ultimatum was widely considered to be unfulfillable, and merely a preliminary measure to create a casus belli to enable Austria-Hungary to invade and punish Serbia. When Austria-Hungary rejected Serbia's conditional acceptance of the ultimatum and declared war, it set into motion a series of events which led to World War I.

en.wikipedia.org...

I still think you could play an more even keel, don't you?

Equal rights or a withdraw.

What could be less hateful, or more in the center?

Originally posted by ArchAngel

I still think you could play an more even keel, don't you?

Equal rights or a withdraw.

What could be less hateful, or more in the center?

Palestine does not exist, why should Israel withdrawl from a non-existant country?
For that matter, how can they withdrawl from a non-existant country?
If it does not exist then how can they give it equal rights?

Honestly, don't people ever feel the need to research what the hell they are talking about?

Palestinian Territories:

The Palestinian territories are geographic areas in the Middle East captured by Israel from Egypt and Jordan in the Six-day War of 1967 and held afterward, excluding the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula.

...

Between 1949 and 1967, these territories were occupied by Jordan and Egypt respectively, but the term "Palestinian territories" or "Occupied Palestinian Territories" gained wide usage after Israel's victory in the 1967 Six-Day War. Since then, the United Nations and most foreign governments regard the territories as being under Israeli military occupation.

Since 1994, the autonomous Palestinian Authority has exercised various degrees of control in large parts of the territories, pursuant to the Oslo Accords.

en.wikipedia.org...

Neither is land-for-peace something new, and it has been used to create peace in the past.

Land for peace is a general principle proposed for resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict by which Israel would relinquish control of all or part of the territories it conquered in 1967 in return for peace with and recognition by the Arab world. The formula appeared for the first time in UN Security Council Resolution 242; it has since then become the main guideline of American and international policy regarding the conflict.

Land for Peace was first used as the basis for Israel's peace treaty with Egypt in 1979, which included an Israeli retreat from the Sinai in exchange for economic assistance to both sides from the United States and a peace treaty with Egypt.

en.wikipedia.org...

Israel has already withdrawn from the Gaza Strip, and I believe the only other land that Palestine can and will negotiate over is the West Bank.

And, as far as the 1967 War...

The Six-Day War (Hebrew: מלחמת ששת הימים transliteration: Milhemet Sheshet Hayamim, Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة transliteration: Harb al-Aiyam as-Sitah), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War, or June War, was fought between Israel and its Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. It began when Israel launched what it described as a pre-emptive attack against Egypt, following the latter's closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and the deployment of troops in the Sinai near the Israeli border, and after months of increasingly tense border incidents and diplomatic crises.

en.wikipedia.org...

The bad thing about the Internet is that it has become an outlet for the ignorant.

Jamuhn, way to hit the nail on the head!

Palestine does not exist officially and your post helps even more to prove that point.
It is an Israeli occupied territory inside of the country of Israel.
No mention of Palestine anywhere except that the disputed land is claimed by both.

Have to agree with AA - it's an olive branch and a potential end to years of misery.

A reasonable government who really want peace would see it as an opportunity for dialogue and hopefully a resolution to the conflict.