Paul McCartney died in 1966 - replaced by Billy Shepherd

I realize that a lot of Beatles fans won't like hearing that there may, at some time and according to this testimony later rather than sooner, some link between the Beatles and witchcraft or satanism. But here it is anyways:

Source: www.kt70.com...

Transcript of John Todd in the 70s

AND THEN THERE ARE OTHER THINGS SUCH AS THINGS OR BELONGINGS THAT ACTUALITY WERE CREATED BY THE DEVIL SUCH AS ROCK MUSIC. Now I want to specify this, I am down on this because I am an ex-witch. Without it witches don't function. I dropped this out of my testimony this morning, I should have given it. One of the things that I was supposed to be was the head of this Brenner Enterprises in Texas which explains to the IRS why I was making all this money.

IT WAS A LOT OF MONEY & ONE OF THE COMPANIES I WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE OWNED WAS CALLED ZODIAC PRODUCTIONS.--The name gives it away. It was a booking agency in Texas; it's changed its name, but it's still the largest booking agency in the U.S. for Rock groups. It was the group that was originally responsible for bringing the Beatles to the U.S. I got to meet most of the groups.

THE BEATLES WERE ALREADY APART WHEN I WAS THERE, BUT I GOT TO MEET SEVERAL OF THEM OFF & ON, & I met almost all of the groups that were in existence then, & a lot that are in existence now. I only found about this many (holds up a few fingers) that weren't occultists, that didn't confess when they were alone that their music came from "supernatural forces" as they would put it.

This fellow, John Todd who was Grand Druid for many witch covens and deeply implicated for decades in the higher ranks of Illuminati Satanism states that they were the ones who were responsible for bringing The Beatles to the USA.

This is an important revelation, and it stands to reason that with a little research one could discover and confirm whether Zodiac Productions was indeed involved in their bookings during their first US tour.

It stands to reason that there was some involvement in their promotion and the publicity surrounding their arrival. If only the Illuminati controlled media which went into a frenzy about the sensation from Liverpool which was possibly blown a bit out of proportion, with all due respect for the genuine talent and charm of the fabulous four?

Do we really need that many clues when we see the Satanic signs shown the greater public in this photo?



I only hope that it is a warning sign, telling us who is pulling the strings, rather than the unlikely alternative: a typical Illuminati cynical joke prodding us with the truth, since we sheeple are too dumb to understand it when it is thrust under our very eyes.

So, Paul is Alive activists, are you saying that Paul and the other Beatles were satanists toying with us, or do you concede that they may have had some other motivation for manifesting such well known unambiguous signs? Faul is making the 666 sign with the lower section in a circle and three fingers marking the stems of the sixes. John is making the Owl or Satan's Horns sign which is used by Satanists to communicate with each other in public events. Amen.

Ok, just to answer my own question about Syd Barrett & '___':

... According to Tim Willis, Barrett's biographer, there were stories of Barrett being locked in cupboards by hangers-on and dark rumours he was being fed, without his knowledge, daily '___' doses by "friends"...

www.treesandthings.com...

... in 1966 he lived in an apartment with people who ingested acid regularly and purportedly fed it to Barrett whether he was aware of it or not...

www.pinkfloydz.com...

It makes me think of how people were experimented on in MKULTRA tests:

... In 1975, during the first senate committee meeting concerning MK Ultra it was said; "From its beginning in the early 1950s until its termination in 1963, the program of surreptitious administration of '___' to unwitting non-volunteer human subjects demonstrates a failure of the CIA's leadership to pay adequate attention to the rights of individuals and to provide effective guidance to CIA employees...

www.wintersteel.com...

reply to post by pmexplorer


Yeah instead of addressing the points we keep trying to make lets just widen the goal posts to infinity, and then we never have to answer to anybody...

If these folks don't want to debate why did they bother coming to ATS, can't they chat to each other on their own web site? This is just a waste of ATS bandwidth now imho.

And no, snowjob and crew, this is not a personal attack on any PIDer, it's a general attack on all PIDers...

Looks like she's going to destroy this thread with off-topic posts, just like she did over at icke.

Mod edit: Quote removed.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by sanctum]

Originally posted by switching yard
All they've done, in trying to dismiss Magical Mystery Tour as random nonsense, is to point out to those who are looking into the topic of this thread that the contents of Magical Mystery Tour are very meaningful indeed.

Well JL's comment on this was "Let the f***ers work that one out."
I, have no comment.

(quintal)
the lyrics of rock songs are witch-language

(faulconandsnowjob)
The Doors lyrics jump to mind as good examples, but I can't think of anything specifically right now. I'll come back to it...

Well, these are the songs where the meaning is completely unclear. Not the metaphor-loaded ones, but the ones where everything, every piece of meaning unbalances your analytical brain.
I mean, each piece (a sentence or part of one) has a clear meaning, but it's the context that's unclear : what is the song talking about? You can't tell.
And yet it keeps throwing you around and programming you.
We could call that mindcontrol-language also, pretty much the same thing.
It is a very typical way of writing lyrics since a few decades.
Authors routinely testify that they didn't think when writing, it came through them.

(quintal)
Satanism is a fun topic because you can spot satanism in very unconspicuous words, forms, attitudes etc.
It's a fun detective game.

(faulconandsnowjob)
I don't know if I would call it "fun." I'm thinking more "horrible."

Of course, I wasnt writing about satanism by itself but about the game it leads to in everyday life : spotting the symbols, the impregnation of our culture. We don't have to succumb to it, we can dance with the bull instead of being paralized by fear.
We do have the means to be immune from it, it's our choice. What inner wolf do we feed, the good one or the bad one.

(quintal]
By the way, another dude was screwed by his band mates : Syd Barrett.

(faulconandsnowjob)
Someone once posted a tantalizing tid-bit about how Syd Barrett was force-fed '___', then refused to elaborate. Any truth to that?

I hadn't heard of that but it's always been my "it's obvious !" feeling that to many people had an interest in taking Syd's place for his overdose-induced downfall to have happened without outside intervention.

Besides, your doppelgänger stuff made me think that maybe the current person shown as being Syd/Roger isn't him. At least he surely doesnt look like him.

Gilmour even gives it away in interviews, admitting his burning envy for Syd when Syd was at the top : "That guy had it all" or something.

In the interviews you posted (the one in Russia?) Faul gives it away too : he's asked if he's Paul and he replies "I am A paul". And everything he says around that is right on what he would say if he was Paul's replacement and couldn't say it outright but needed to admit it, albeit ambiguously.

(quintal)
The geniuses/adepts/natural alchemists are a threat to TPTB and your thread made me believe Paul was the genius, whereas beforehand I hadn't made the difference between pre- and post- 66 "Paul" and I had missed out on the gem that the real Paul was.

(faulconandsnowjob)
I know. It kills me how many amazing songs that might have been :-(

Well I had never thought of Paul as a musical genius but now I'm thinking it's because I had thought Faul was Paul ! :-)
But I know the feeling because I have it towards Barrett. The guy could use a mixing table apparently at random and get an awesome result. That's the action of what is called an "adept", a "realized" person, someone who can let his intuition and instinct merge and achieve just about anything.
That's what everyone with an ounce of taste for the occult wishes to be and of course such a guy is a threat to the dark occultists who want to keep the force for themselves. BTW "the force" is how satanists call it, the good dudes talk about love, soul, unity and so on.

Your bit about Morrison is a clue that most bands since the 60's are psyops.

The current "be a star" trend is the usual showbiz satanistic pact offered to the masses. Kind of a massive recruiting operation maybe? Are they lacking slaves? Considering how much entertainers are payed, they must be a rare commodity.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by quintal]

Originally posted by Wally Hope
If these folks don't want to debate why did they bother coming to ATS, can't they chat to each other on their own web site? This is just a waste of ATS bandwidth now imho.

There's no obiligation to argue with the PIAers. There's no rule that says we have to debate with you. Otherwise the ignore button wouldn't have been created. The fact is, is that many ATS members are seeing the evidence about PID and coming here to discuss it. It is one of many subjects on ATS that we are free to discuss.

And I don't believe that the PIAers really want to debate. They want to see this to go away more than anything and they'll do anything to derail threads, i.e. comments like yours above along with comments I've seen from pm explorer and socrates. In my opinion, it's like a book burning mentality.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by SednaSon]

Originally posted by SednaSon
And I don't believe that the PIAers really want to debate. They want to see this go away more than anything and they'll do anything to derail threads, i.e. comments like yours above along with comments I've seen from pm explorer and socrates. In my opinion, it's like a book burning mentality.

One of them openly asked for this thread to be deleted.
That was in the first 30 pages of it.

Indeed debate isn't an obligation. Remaining on-topic is.

Yes it has much to do with book burning. Typical skeptic debunkers often call for the forced internment or at least the forced psychiatric treatment of their adversaries.

It's no coincidence that we're talking about inspired people having been disposed of by enemies of wisdom-in-action-and-in-freedom, and that the ones defending the cover-up of the abductions share the same philosophy as the abductors and the ones defending the abductees admire them for their shining mastery of human inner powers.

It is a spiritual war.

The skeptics could regain credibility here by not stooping down to personal attacks nor blanket denial (like claiming that nothing in this thread is the least bit relevant concerning paul's abduction's topic except the skeptics' statements).

They could also gain by refraining from demanding the believers to debate them.

When I started reading this thread the first posts of the debunkers were respectful and convincing. It's only when they started throwing cheap low blows that they lost any credibility with me.

Others have commented the same, by the way. They were turned off by the debunkers' underhanded tactics and this led them to start believing in the Faul theory.

So even for the sake of efficiency the debunkers should heed this advice.

In the spiritual war refered to above, the goal, the way to win is unity. Unity between the believers and the unbelievers... provided they are all of good will but I believe nearly all skeptics are.

I don't recall having met anybody else than good human beings trying to do their best. But then I'm an idealist, right?


[edit on 12-9-2009 by quintal]

Originally posted by faulconandsnowjob

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
Jim Morrison claimed he was possessed when he performed.

So? It's amazing what a good combination of drugs and alcohol can do to the imagination. Can cause many illusions, delusions and hallucinations.

Yes, and I also believe that it can accentuate the hyperreality. Admittedly I'm not a rock star, but I am a psychonaut and certainly it is possible to manipulate people by this process, but as an observant it is also important that the inductee goes along with the process as well...'___' without TPTB suggestion is an exceptionally powerful and inciteful rug....don't be afraid of them...understand them, down to the chemical reaction...then you have he power....whereas alcohol (my drug of the moment) is very clumsy and very much of a broad brush regarding the potential of suggestion.

Personally, I find satanism hard towasllow so there is some work to
do there...(hell, I even find Christianity a difficult enough pill).

faulcon: "I find that fascinating that you guys were picking up on that back then."

Yes, until the end of the '66 American tour, there was a feeling that The Beatles were a very public group. The press covered them on almost a daily basis. We almost had too much news of them in those early days. They were all over TV news and in magazines and newspapers non-stop.

Then came the end of the year of 1966 and all the press coverage stopped. We couldn't find any information on them. Next thing we knew, Ed Sullivan was saying on his show "The Beatles are not able to be with us in person, but they have graciously sent films, let's watch!" These were the Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane films. My friends and I knew something was very strange. This very public group that we followed the previous year was now a very private group. We thought, well they're doing everything in a kind of secret lab and no one is allowed access.

I remember we would ask the local record shop "When are you getting the next new Beatles record in? What day?" Usually, they we got a pretty accurate ETA. We would buy their next album, no matter what, and while playing it for the first time, we'd study every square inch of the cover art and graphics. In those days, the new Beatles albums, when they were first released, were nothing short of mind blowing because no group had ever achieved those sounds before.

It was all very mysterious and we all knew it. The almost total press blackout was thought very mysterious. In the little snippet interview soundbites of the day from The Beatles themselves, they seemed unwilling to give any information about what they were up to. It was all very hush hush and we didn't understand why.

They became kind of like sorcerers that the press and public had no access to. We were left to analyze the albums ourselves because there was little or no official explanation of anything about them from the Beatles organization.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by switching yard]

Originally posted by switching yard
Then came the end of the year of 1966 and all the press coverage stopped. We couldn't find any information on them. ...

The almost total press blackout was thought very mysterious. In the little snippet interview soundbites of the day from The Beatles themselves, they seemed unwilling to give any information about what they were up to. It was all very hush hush and we didn't understand why.

... finally, they released the album they'd been working on all these months and everything became clear -- they'd been making history.

Originally posted by aorAki
...Personally, I find satanism hard towasllow so there is some work to
do there...(hell, I even find Christianity a difficult enough pill).

Despite what you may conclude from my prior posts, I agree with you. Had I not been exposed to its existence in early childhood in far more unlikely social spheres than Rock N' Roll Music, I would have shrugged and thought someone had had too much substance abuse or irrational delusions.

Unfortunately I was not given the luxury of skepticism on this topic, but I didn't know it was related to The Beatles, even indirectly, until reading this thread. It became painfully apparent that there is a connection, of which nature remains to be ascertained. FYI this conclusion comes from someone without religious convictions or an ax to grind with any group or credence. Only, the Luciferians and Satanists are a religious sect which is grinding its ax against the flesh of too many innocent victims.

John Todd's above quoted transcripts
The Beatles are classified in the occult world as the four major prophets. That's right, there's more to the Beatles than meets the eye. Their White Double Album ... now this'll mean nothing to a lot of you, & a lot to the young people. Their White Double Album is considered to be the Book of Revelation to witches. That's right. That & a book called Atlas Shrugs.

NOW IN IT IS A SONG CALLED "HELTER SKELTER." You should listen to that song, I used to have a lot of drug friends get together & say, "I wonder what that means?"--Witches knew what it meant, it was part of witch language. It meant a time when the pit would be opened & the demons would be set free & the World would become insane in less than a 24-hour period & they'd be killing everybody--their next door neighbors, their kids, their wife, everything! The World would just completely go mass insane overnight.

Given that this is "only the confession of a self-proclaimed reformed Satanist" please take it with precaution. Furthermore, there is no evidence that The Beatles knew exactly the Occult content of lyrics which may have been imposed by OTHERS.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Getsmart]

pmexplorer
I admit I have let my anger materialise into what might be considered insulting messages, AT TIMES, but on the whole I have let the 'other' side have their say and as an open-minded person I am willing to listen to any theory, given that there is at least a modicum of supporting evidence or fact that suggest it may indeed be true or worth investigating.
(...)
I and others have asked faulcon and co. for definitive proof time and time again but all they can offer is wild unspeculated theories

If one comes here to bicker, he has a field day. On the other hand if one comes here to provide conspiracy related material she is showered by insults and complaints.

I surmise that the anti-personal-attacks rule should be applied with particular attention to protect faulcon because she is in a more delicate position than the debunkers yet she is the one keeping the thread going.

I believe we are on a "serious" conspi board here (not a bickering and sensationalist one). We are on its section dedicated to theories-without-proof and yet you and others are attacking the provider of a material which is perfectly in tune with the section's declared purpose as quoted below :

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The ATS Back To Basics Campaign

This is a new initiative kicked off by this Skunk Works forum to have a dedicated place for ATS members to engage in speculative conspiracy theory discussions of all topics, angles, and targets. Our regular ATS forums have long since evolved into excellent zones of critical thinking and analysis that often either reveal or discredit many conspiracy theories. This attribute of ATS is certainly an important factor of our growth as we're the largest "alternative topic" discussion board by a major factor.

However, the skeptical and often intense nature of our regular forums can often be an intimidating environment for members with conspiracy theories based on more loosely connected tidbits of information (or even pure speculation) than is typically expected of posts in our main forums. Skeptical analysis and fact checking is certainly a cornerstone in the art of "Denying Ignorance", however, as the wonderful Mr. Einstein once said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." The true denial of ignorance must also include and often embrace even the most fanciful exaggerations of possibilities in order to understand and explore the upper limits of what might be possible.

As all can see, "Wild unspeculated theories" as you put it are... what this board's section is all about !

The description even includes the motive why this is so : because elsewhere on this site the criticism is too harsh for people to... feel at ease bringing material related to conspiracies on a site dedicated to conspiracies !

pmexplorer
Faulon [sic] in particular has regurgitated the same photo montages and image comparisons time and time again despite the fact that others with more expertise on this matter than myself have shown that her facial discrepancies amount to nothing more than changes in facial expression, natural ageing, the use of photoshopping or editing to manipulate images to highlight supposed differences

This is your opinion and even if it was true it is what this board's section is stated to be about anyway.

Trying to impose your opinion as the undisputable truth or to state what the thread's stuff-bringer should or shouldn't post is not a particularly respectful way of communicating nor of contributing.

By requesting you and others to refrain from personal attacks I'm just asking for a rule of the board to be applied whereas by complaining about faulcon's posting you are in fact acting against the purpose of this board's section as explicitely specified by the board managers.

As for me I'm just a conspi buff having fun with the relatively harmless PID theory.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by quintal]

Originally posted by Wally Hope
reply to post by quintal

 

I was replying to your post above my reply.

OK you didn't say insulted you said personal attack, same difference.

All you 'PIDers' can do is claim personal attack any time someone posts the truth about your silly PID hoax. The poster wasn't attacking you.

No Sir, I have taken the time to quote what I have stated to be personal attacks.
You would be welcome to do the same if you mean to state that I am misqualifying these quotes.


P.S. to faulcon : thank you for the "conspiracy theory" movie video, I watched it last night and this morning and it was fun

[edit on 12-9-2009 by quintal]

Originally posted by quintal
Trying to impose your opinion as the undisputable truth and to rule over others in the name of reason is not a particularly respectful way of communicating nor of contributing to a public discussion.

Quintal,

You have not chosen to use the ATS board "IGNORE" function, but I invite you to do so given that our Moderators have chosen not to intervene to protect basic civility in this thread. We hope to present speculative theories as congenially as possible. In awaiting action on the part of the MODS may I suggest that all who are displeased by said party(ies) resort to the IGNORE Mode.

Of course, I highly value structured counter-arguments far more than having people agree with what I think. After all we are here to learn, not to close our mind or nail shut discussion. I invite debate, not derision. If others find the thread laughable, then are free to attend to less frivolous matters rather than stick to this thread like flypaper to merely scoff at fellow ATSers. Nobody is required to turn the other cheek to malevolent posters, be they satanists or simpletons too blind to know one until it's their turn to be the "toast of the party".

To prevent newcomers to the thread being "hazed" by irrelevant knee jerk postings, one could inform them of this situation early on in the thread. All it would take is for somebody who posted in the first pages of this thread to EDIT that post and add a link to your post here on Page 129, briefing them on the situation and letting them choose whether or not to take measures. New thread readers and posters could thus be spared undue exposure to posts lacking content in order to experience a more relevant debate in genuine ATS Skunk Works tradition!

Link to your above Post's for edit:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Getsmart

Source: www.kt70.com...

Transcript of John Todd in the 70s

(snip)

Getsmart :
This fellow, John Todd who was Grand Druid for many witch covens and deeply implicated for decades in the higher ranks of Illuminati Satanism states that they were the ones who were responsible for bringing The Beatles to the USA.

As much as I like John Todd (and it's a lot) I don't forget that he may be a disinfo agent, just as Springmeier and others may be ones too.

Getsmart :
Do we really need that many clues when we see the Satanic signs shown the greater public in this photo?



I only hope that it is a warning sign, telling us who is pulling the strings, rather than the unlikely alternative: a typical Illuminati cynical joke prodding us with the truth, since we sheeple are too dumb to understand it when it is thrust under our very eyes.

So, Paul is Alive activists, are you saying that Paul and the other Beatles were satanists toying with us, or do you concede that they may have had some other motivation for manifesting such well known unambiguous signs? Faul is making the 666 sign with the lower section in a circle and three fingers marking the stems of the sixes. John is making the Owl or Satan's Horns sign which is used by Satanists to communicate with each other in public events. Amen.

Well I lack the background to know if showing such hand signs are a sure proof of involvement in satanism. The horned sign is well known but even that one can be shown by many people who are unaware of its meaning.
Now I wouldn't count politicians as being unaware of the meaning of the handsigns they wittingly display to the public, but artists?

I dont know about that, even if I suspect I'm just too ignorant and such handsigns on an album cover may very well be a dead giveaway.

But you see, i've been interested in this topic for years and yet i'm undecided so imagine the people who are unaware of the topic.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by quintal]

Originally posted by quintal
Well I lack the background to know if showing such hand signs are a sure proof of involvement in satanism. The horned sign is well known but even that one can be shown by many people who are unaware of its meaning.

Now I wouldn't count politicians as being unaware of the meaning of the handsigns they wittingly display to the public, but artists? I dont know about that, even if I suspect I'm just too ignorant and such handsigns on an album cover may very well be a dead giveaway. But you see, i've been interested in this topic for years and yet i'm undecided so imagine the people who are unaware of the topic.

No signs, words or even photographic evidence can be certain to mean what we infer by it. You can witness a crime and not see what others do. Guilt is a value based inference, so if a human sacrifice is OK in your book then what gives? Intent is even more abstract yet, but is used in courts of law to decide if you should hang or be congratulated. We read into everything either as an individual or a society.

Artists will often take on characteristics of what they dislike as a form of artistic dissent. Satire or irony are forms of artistic license. Had this not coincided with Paul's presumed date of disappearance, then who's to read anything into it? Seeing your neighbor leave the house with a shotgun is an innocuous event unless you discover that his family looks like they just moved in - where did the others go? It is thus "more normal than not" to be suspicious and observant of potential clues when there is a possibility of foul play.

This is probably one important reason why the PIA camp sticks to the statement that our observation that the neighbor's family was switched is erroneous. With that initial denial of our perception of events the very premises of our observations would be skewed, making pertinent clues seem to be the paranoid rambling of distorted minds.

If Paul Is Alive then there are many thousands of people in a severe state of psychosis and unable to trust their own eyes, ears or instincts. Countless others would then be self indulgent enough to entertain absurd imaginary fantasies about people that don't exist and events which never took place. After all, can you be you really that sure that your neighbors used to live next door? Couldn't it have all been a dream? Why don't you just move elsewhere and attend to your own business? Leave well enough alone, PIA.

The entire PID / PIA debate depends on the same thing that Judges rely upon in their most difficult criminal court cases: their Intimate Conviction, which is 'in fine' the only thing which any human being can rely upon to determine to what extent one is convinced, and whether to convict a culprit of something deemed real and substantial. Of course they could be wrong, and they sometimes are. But would the opposite be better? Our senses, our logic and our conception of events can easily be manipulated by testimonial, argumentation and theatrics. It is only in our depth of belief that can reconcile us with our conscience and we must thus decide for ourselves (and others if we are judge or jury) what is truth and what is falsehood.

Your are definitely right that it is of course possible that John Todd could be a disinfo agent. With no related information or insight it would almost stand to reason that those who cast such adamant accusatory remarks are imbalanced and of dubious motivation. But it is because his words were said decades ago and coincide with one's personal knowledge or insight, corroboarative sources and confirming events, that we can "tend to grant his remarks some credence" without of course adopting them wholesale.

The ruling elite is oddly evil, something that will seem strange to any youngster when visiting families of the rich and powerful. Many are not what you would call "healthy" or "nice" and their offspring are usually quite deranged and capable of dastardly deeds. You can say this is true of any family, regardless of wealth and social position. Maybe, but there is a clear and distinct pattern of destructive behavior in this social class. It is not necessarily so much a matter of being corrupted by power, as it is within the family unit which is usually spared such discomforts when caused by external pressures. It is a visceral evil that haunts many such homes.

This personal observation over years of experience makes me biased to read into John Todd's comments something which explains things which I witnessed. Disturbing parties with vulgar and obscene orgies in respectable circles, pillars of the local community attending ritual sacrifice as if at a backyard picnic, children abused in the mix as if it was normal education for them. Something had gone awfully wrong.

When I hear of Paul James McCartney being invited in 1966 to high society parties which he repeatedly refused to attend, this rushes back into memory and maybe pollutes my interpretation. But just maybe it "informs my understanding" of why he would refuse to go. Was he snobing them? Uncharacteristic of a young man from Liverpool. Did he dislike the rich and famous? Not on principle as he had no trouble with fame and fortune. Could it be because it was "one of those parties"?

This is where the "Butcher's Album" with Paul and the Yellow Submarine Album with Faul coincidentally point to something not quite right, babies treated without much sympathy along with sympathy for the devil. If you research those hand signs, they are widely recognized occult and satanist messages. Whenever someone I know professionally uses them I jokingly make them aware of it only to never see them again. It is like when you mention Skull & Bones to a member of that Satanic coven, they are under the obligation to not reply and leave at once, this I know from a close inside source. I assume the same applies when you let them know you noticed their winged hand sign.

Yet I remain skeptical about PID, but am more open to supportive or contradictory evidence given that a possible scenario has come to life in my imagination. I am certainly not comfortable with it, and hope to find out it is not so as nobody could be more displeased than to know that he or innocent people have been in harm's way. PID or PIA investigators, please bring forth some eloquent evidence or elegant argumentation to better establish what might have happened.

Originally posted by SednaSon
There's no obiligation to argue with the PIAers. There's no rule that says we have to debate with you. Otherwise the ignore button wouldn't have been created. The fact is, is that many ATS members are seeing the evidence about PID and coming here to discuss it. It is one of many subjects on ATS that we are free to discuss.

And I don't believe that the PIAers really want to debate. They want to see this to go away more than anything and they'll do anything to derail threads, i.e. comments like yours above along with comments I've seen from pm explorer and socrates. In my opinion, it's like a book burning mentality.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by SednaSon]

Excellent post!

There is an element of them here with the intention of "funneling down" the topic.

It`s obvious after researching this area for awhile that Paul had a "double." The further you look into it the easier it is to see that he Paul permanently replaced.



[edit on 12-9-2009 by Uncle Benny]