Ugly People More Dangerous? Federally Funded Study Says So.

the rest of the article just seems to make up excuses at to why "ugly people" are more prone to crime.......

they don't get the good jobs....ect.....

ummmm....ya, sure.....
it must be some sort of defect in ugly people's character, right... they can't take not having the best jobs as well as their better looking counterparts and must resort to crime???

so, just what good use can we gain from the knowledge that this study provides??

ps, if you want my opinion, maybe the "ugly" people are just smart enough not to waste their money on a bunch of superficial beauty products filled with carcinogens!!!

ugly poor girls become criminals....pretty poor girls become prostitutes....

wonder how much the gov't would give me to research that one!

::Sigh::

No, again, that is not what the study is saying. They associate teenage behaviour, such as ugly teens being excluded from certain events and being treated differently, to antisocial behaviour later in life which may lead one to commit crim. If pretty people were the ones being excluded from teenage events, it would work the same way. They bring up the job application idea to show how appearance affects how we perceive people in some cases and can lead one to behave antisocially. If you had a big mole on your nose and were turned down everytime you applied for the same job as someone who didn't have one, wouldn't you begin to feel a little maligned? I would.

Again, please read and re-read the study before you lambast it and show that you truly don't understand the material.

~MFP

I've read the danged thing three times at least, it ain't that long....

and I am still reading the assertion that ugly people are more prone to crime.....

and that....well, then they try to find reasons for this...call it antisocial behevior, feeling left out, being forced to use criminal methods to get your daily bread whatever......

the problem is.....

there are many, many, many not so pretty people out there in our world....probably most, that seem to be doing just fine, without resorting to crime to cope with life....so, well,

fat people must also be more prone to crime.

poor people also.

let's not forget about those brainiacs that went through school with their noses in books....now they were antisocial!!

it doesn't jive...

and well, you still haven't answered my question.

now that we know that "ugly people" are more prone to crime, just how can we as a society use this knowledge.....outside of targeting "ugly people" as criminals..

boy if those "ugly people" thought it was hard to find a job before, just wait till they are labeled "potential criminal"!!

"Oh, no, you can't hire him!! He's ugly, he'll rip you off for sure!!"

This doesn't surprise me....not even a little.

"The Hidden Curriculum" anyone? Not just for a social expression for educational experience. Translation is broad spectrum and a bit more complex than what the study details.......

I'm not even going to comment on this thread anymore. It's clear that several people here feel that skimming the article allows them to become experts on all things societal and that they can conclusively state that these economists are behind some sort of hidden agenda. This is just ridiculous. Please, for the sake of good debate, READ the article and suspend your personal bias against government for one second while you read it.

~MFP

never said a word about hidden agendas, just that the gov't wastes alot of money on stupid things.....

and well, noone answered my question...

just what can society use this study for? that's positive.....

that's all I could see that would come out of it, fat people, ugly people, and people for who for whatever reason are not that popular, are more prone to crime, and therefore shouldn't be trusted.....oh, ya, that's a real positive outcome...isn't it...

I mean, you're gonna have a really hard time convincing kids to include everyone in their little cliques.....if they did that, they wouldn't be cliques. kids are prone to meanness! there's always gonna be an in crowd, and a not so in crowd...so, there's always gonna be some who are left out....

so, should we provide anti-crime counseling for those who aren't in......umm.....warning here, you start treating kids like they are potential criminals, they're liable to become just that! and hey, now they have an excuse, they are predestined to be prone to criminal activity!!!

just like girls are predestined to have problems with math and science, so why should they try, right??

I really don't like studies such as this where they try to pass off certain negative traits onto certain groups of people. I just don't see just how we are susposed to use the information in any positive manner.

and well, noone answered my question...

just what can society use this study for? that's positive.....

I didn't answer your question because I, as well as other non-native English speakers, I'm sure, have a hard time wading through your posts. I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just saying that some basic editing would help immensely.

As to your question: this study can be used to show that bullying and exclusion at young or other formative ages does indeed have some sort of psychological effect on people. I think this is a very worthwhile study. While there has been anecdotal evidence of this for years, I have never seen a true, scientific study of this scope. I think it's something very important in a social studies setting. It in no way is meant to characterize people by appearance. It merely shows that since our appearance affects how people treat us in various settings, this leaves a lasting impact on our psyche.

~MFP

Originally posted by dawnstar

I really don't like studies such as this where they try to pass off certain negative traits onto certain groups of people. I just don't see just how we are susposed to use the information in any positive manner.

Ummm. ...We're not?

It's just a rationale for targetting. And flawed to boot.

I'd like to see a study about goodlooking charming sociopaths who become CEO's and presidents.

I'd like to see a study about goodlooking charming sociopaths who become CEO's and presidents.

I actually have read some studies relating to this. The most prevalent study was that people above height 1.9m ( I think that's the height they specified, might have to look into it) tend to be perceived as more powerful or charismatic and thus tend to end up in positions of power more often than those who are shorter. For example, most leaders here in Italy have tended to be taller individuals, as have nearly all (if not all) of the United States' Presidents. Interesting, I thought. We humans perceive height and good looks as signs of health I imagine. Remnants of simpler times.

~MFP

Originally posted by bsl4doc
I'm not even going to comment on this thread anymore. It's clear that several people here feel that skimming the article allows them to become experts on all things societal and that they can conclusively state that these economists are behind some sort of hidden agenda. This is just ridiculous. Please, for the sake of good debate, READ the article and suspend your personal bias against government for one second while you read it.

~MFP

www.sociology.org.uk...

The above link is an introduction to the Hidden Curriculum....I should have posted the link to the actual study, but I can't find it in the personal files of my computer. The study itself is actually quite base and obvious to anyone who bothers to think in that direction.....but few rarely do. At any rate, the idea and concept is very relevant....despite the presentation.

I'm including this as a reference to the quoted statement bsl4doc because I think you should know, that despite the fact that I think I can peruse an article and consider myself an expert, there are some people here on ATS who really do understand the material presented......I'm just backing up my fairly vague commentary.......btw...not a dig at you dawnstar.....

As fro economists authoring the study.......having a decent personality profile of your consumer base will allow for a better estimate on how said consumer base will particpate in consumer/economic activity. Sadly, in todays society, the distinction is most likely going to tend towards "consumer".....rather than "economic"..........

I could seriously talk all day on this subject........but self-proclaimed expert and all........

There is going to be a discussion on this subject on tommorrows(Tuesday) FOXNews "Your World with Neil Cavuto"

I also find it interesting that they didn't also post the actual name of the Journal this was published in.

cover girl's weekly newsletter....they're trying to scare parents into allowing their girls to wear makeup earlier......

sorry, couldn't resist.....

as far as the bullying bit, umm. ya know what....

if being bullied as a kid leads to criminal behavior...may I suggest this is how, hey, I can explain it without steriotyping anyone.

the law, the teachers, the adults all turn a blind eye to the behavior. thus, the victim of the bullying has no means of recourse, which prompts them to take the law into their own hands, using their own understanding and abilities. seems to me, that if you want to stop it, you don't need to stereotype anyone either....just stop turning a blind eye to the harmful behavior. protect the kids, so they don't have to feel like they need to go outside the law to protect themselves to begin with.

So what is the cure?

Free plastic surgery for all ugly people to prevent a life of crime?

I must admit I didn't read the article, just the comments so I am only referring to that section of the posts. I find this a rather hard topic to justify. If you carry it over to other things like fat people, fat people are considered ugly so they must be more prone to crime as well--free nutritional counselling and spa visits for all people over a certain weight. Oh and poor people can be considered ugly because they can't afford the makeup and fashions that would put them in the average to better looking category.

Sure poor treatment by your peers and others will tend to make a person more antisocial, lots of factors can make a person antisocial. I would rather have heard of a study that identified antisocial behaviours and methods of combatting these behaviours in general society rather than having it pinned on a physical attribute like ugliness--sounds too much like another ogre we are currently combatting racial stereotyping.

Originally posted by dawnstar

the law, the teachers, the adults all turn a blind eye to the behavior. thus, the victim of the bullying has no means of recourse...

Hi dawnstar,

I think the point you make is valid, but unfortunately only to a point. The problem authority figures have in dealing with bullying is one of ethics; An ethical person plays by the rules, but for the un-ethical person there are no rules. Lies and deception tend to go hand-in-hand with bullying which makes recourse almost impossible.

Criminality comes in many forms and for many differing reasons; genealogy and learned behaviour in childhood being the most relevant, but by no means are these the only causes. Surroundings and social standing/peer group pressures also create criminals and again for differing reasons.

Many years of dealing with society's worst offenders has shown the many facets of criminal behaviour as being too complex to pigeon-hole; but I must admit that the Report has many worthwhile and interesting findings that are verifiable, I can certainly relate to the findings in my dealings with offenders.

But, the report only covers one facet and yes I have certainly met some ugly prisoners (ugly inside & out).

Regards

J

"The problem authority figures have in dealing with bullying is one of ethics"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

who's ethics??

I mean, there's been videos shown on tv where a gang of kids will attack on person....hey, over next to the side of the school, here's all these adults, obviously knowing what is going on. I've watched the same thing in my neighborhoods. people will just turn and look the other way while some kids beat up on one. hey, there was even a gang of them attacking some poor guy that wandered into our neighborhood. they started throwing things at him as he walked, turned around, and they didn't stop throwing until he was out of the area!! they even picked up things out of peoples yards and threw them....a few of us bothered to yell at them, but well, we weren't their parents, and quite frankly, we were told to just shut up!! and of course, their parents were no where to be seen, or they were there, and well, trying to ignore the whole bit...

whatever.

I've had these kids kick in my door and chase my kids through the house. called the police but well, there was no real damage, at least not any that I could prove that they did, so well, they couldn't do anything about it?? that's when I told my landlord that lease or no lease, we were moving. He couldn't guarentee the safety of anyone in my house, I couldn't and well, the police couldn't even. But of course, if the kids that were in the house that weren't mine on that day would have been hurt....well, there more than likely would have been a nice lawsuit against me!!

there's been fat kids, ugly kids, and well, just kids that didn't seem to belong throughout history, but I don't think there's been such an unruly bunch of kids before.
so, the government decides to fund a study on just how being ugly plays into the picture?? Why?? ain't nothing that that study could say that could change a danged thing! a few hundred or so kids are still gonna be crammed into a small area in paperthin housing, too many adults are still not gonna give a dang, and kids are still gonna be drugged instead of their problems being addresses and taken care of.

only now, hey, we have another reason to drug them, they need help coping with their appearance, and well, we don't want them to resort to crime, do we...

I don't know, I'm in my 40's. I remember when I was growing up, and well, things were so much different. Eyes were watching me wherever I went, and well, those eyes also had mouths, and my mom's phone number. And, fingers that were ever so willing to call her and give her the heads up before I got home if I did anything wrong...went a long way to preventing me from resorting to crime as a hobby.

I love this topic, I find it pretty funny to be honest
I'll just point out that I know for a FACT that if someone ugly sits next to you in the bus, when theres other available seats you'll think what do YOU want? You may even feel a little bit scared.
If someone hot does that, you'll probably think hmm what do you want
What's the difference? What's made us think this way? Past experiences with hot and ugly people, based on fact? Or something more inbuilt into our brain.
I have no idea.

In regards to the way teens act these days ( I'm barely out of mine so i kow ) it's a seperate topic. Teens act this way because it has somehow developed into a part of their culture. It is cool to act this way, and is spreading throughout the world. Must like rap has, and beatles did.
It's a cultural trend at this time, which has stemmed from America.
Probably fuelled by certain tv shows and music artists. Don't say that's not the case, the power of the media has enourmous influence.

I mean, there's been videos shown on tv where a gang of kids will attack on person....hey, over next to the side of the school, here's all these adults, obviously knowing what is going on. I've watched the same thing in my neighborhoods. people will just turn and look the other way while some kids beat up on one. hey, there was even a gang of them attacking some poor guy that wandered into our neighborhood. they started throwing things at him as he walked, turned around, and they didn't stop throwing until he was out of the area!! they even picked up things out of peoples yards and threw them....a few of us bothered to yell at them, but well, we weren't their parents, and quite frankly, we were told to just shut up!! and of course, their parents were no where to be seen, or they were there, and well, trying to ignore the whole bit...

whatever.

I've had these kids kick in my door and chase my kids through the house. called the police but well, there was no real damage, at least not any that I could prove that they did, so well, they couldn't do anything about it?? that's when I told my landlord that lease or no lease, we were moving. He couldn't guarentee the safety of anyone in my house, I couldn't and well, the police couldn't even. But of course, if the kids that were in the house that weren't mine on that day would have been hurt....well, there more than likely would have been a nice lawsuit against me!!

there's been fat kids, ugly kids, and well, just kids that didn't seem to belong throughout history, but I don't think there's been such an unruly bunch of kids before.
so, the government decides to fund a study on just how being ugly plays into the picture?? Why?? ain't nothing that that study could say that could change a danged thing! a few hundred or so kids are still gonna be crammed into a small area in paperthin housing, too many adults are still not gonna give a dang, and kids are still gonna be drugged instead of their problems being addresses and taken care of.

only now, hey, we have another reason to drug them, they need help coping with their appearance, and well, we don't want them to resort to crime, do we...

I don't know, I'm in my 40's. I remember when I was growing up, and well, things were so much different. Eyes were watching me wherever I went, and well, those eyes also had mouths, and my mom's phone number. And, fingers that were ever so willing to call her and give her the heads up before I got home if I did anything wrong...went a long way to preventing me from resorting to crime as a hobby.

So basically, you have a problem with the study because...? All you have done so far is bash this study, and now you're ranting about parents not watching their kids. This is exactly what the study is about. Bullying is becoming more of a problem in some places, and it's leading to antisocial behaviour. Plain and simple, cause and effect. Is it the only cause of crime? Of course not. Can it be linked to some causes of criminal activity? I believe so. Just because you're the old man warning kids to get off his lawn doesn't mean that you can ignore a body of evidence that says some children who a re bullied develope psychological effects from it.

Capsice o non capsice?

~MFP

I agree, there would be some links.
But theres more than one way to make someone behave criminally.
I'm sure the study does not suggest every criminal is ugly that would be stupid.
For all we know, it could be totally correct

If you read the article, they make it explicitly clear that not all criminals are ugly, nor do all ugly people become criminals. The exact words are "small, but consistent" results linked to appearance.

~MFP

Originally posted by dawnstar

if being bullied as a kid leads to criminal behavior...may I suggest this is how, hey, I can explain it without steriotyping anyone.

the law, the teachers, the adults all turn a blind eye to the behavior. thus, the victim of the bullying has no means of recourse, which prompts them to take the law into their own hands, using their own understanding and abilities. seems to me, that if you want to stop it, you don't need to stereotype anyone either....just stop turning a blind eye to the harmful behavior. protect the kids, so they don't have to feel like they need to go outside the law to protect themselves to begin with.

Right on the money Dawn- Can anyone say Columbine??? Are there any clueless folk out there still declaring all the "victims" wonderful people?? Those killed on that day were plainly singled out for vengence for probably years of misery and bullying that adults still want to turn a blind eye too.

was it right ? NO. But i can relate because as the "always new kid" i was frequently bullied (17 moves in 13 years) and had the same feelings- i just did not act on them.