Giving up on God

I've lost that lovin' feeling...whoa-oh that lovin feeling...

What makes someone turn their back on God?

...and what do you suppose are the worst rammifications of doing so?

I know God has not abandoned me, but in my pain and confusion I seem to have abandoned Him. I am not new to adversity, so it isn't like the first trial that comes my way and I crumble...no...

The worst part is I still believe...I still believe in God, I am still a Christian, and I believe my faith is well grounded in truth that has been verified to me as a personal confirmation...

and yet...I some how turned around and can't seem to get back to where I once was...why is that? What is in the way? What are the stumbling blocks?

I just can't seem to get it back to good...how does this happen?

[edit on 18-2-2006 by think2much]

Originally posted by think2much
What makes someone turn their back on God?

Your desire to be correct starts to overcome your desire to be comfortable.

Originally posted by think2much
...and what do you suppose are the worst rammifications of doing so?

The worst ramifications are that you will have conflict in your personal relationships one day when you realize you no longer believe at all, and you will feel stupid for al the wasted years you spent trying to grasp false promises.

Originally posted by think2much
The worst part is I still believe...I still believe in God, I am still a Christian,

I agree that this is the worst part. Once you abandon it, you will be free. You will no longer blaim god for your adversity once you accept what your subconscious already knows and is trying to tell you.

Originally posted by think2much
and yet...I some how turned around and can't seem to get back to where I once was...why is that? What is in the way? What are the stumbling blocks?

Most likely, you have new knowledge that prevents you from returning to your prior less informed state.

Originally posted by think2much
I just can't seem to get it back to good...how does this happen?

I suspect you have information you didn't once have - you have eaten from the proverbial forbidden fruit, and are being expelled from the garden of blissfull ignorance.

On the bright side, eating the fruit really does make you like god. The serpent was not lying.

LOL S&H-you think I'm abandoning God out of new knowledge?

I wish it was so easy....

God knows I do.

If that were the case and I had a new road to follow, I would follow it. It would be a great excuse to abandon many religiously imposed morals or religiously influenced society born ones and just live to the dictate of my own empty conscious...but it's not so.

I have nothing NOTHING telling me my belief in God should waiver. I have nothing causing a conflict of what I believe, or have in the past compared to what I am presently learning.

My conflict is I still believe in God 100% and yet, I feel absolutely incapable of ceasing to rebell-that is conflict. BUt I do not rebell out of disbelief or new belief so there is no error or conflict in my belief. The conflict is, I was once happy in my spirituality, and traded it in for physical/sexual vice...and now though the vices no longer please me-I can't seem to give them up, and since I cannot, I am feeling estranged from the God I do believe in...I just can't seem to turn it around...

but thanks anyway-I wish it were so ludicrously simple as to just not believe anymore.

Originally posted by think2much
I wish it was so easy....

It is easy. I'd be happy to help you in that regard.

Originally posted by think2much
My conflict is I still believe in God 100% and yet, I feel absolutely incapable of ceasing to rebell-that is conflict.

If you have inner conflict, your beliefs are not what you think they are. Your subconscious tells you what you do believe, but your conscious mind tells you what you want to believe.

Originally posted by think2much
The conflict is, I was once happy in my spirituality, and traded it in for physical/sexual vice...and now though the vices no longer please me-I can't seem to give them up, and since I cannot, I am feeling estranged from the God I do believe in...I just can't seem to turn it around...

Humans are sexual beings. Doesn't it seem rather cruel for god to design you with a nature that differs from commanded behavior? What even makes you believe god considers these activities immoral?

Originally posted by spamandham
It is easy. I'd be happy to help you in that regard.

you crack me up

If you have inner conflict, your beliefs are not what you think they are. Your subconscious tells you what you do believe, but your conscious mind tells you what you want to believe.

says you. I don't buy it. conflict comes in a variety of forms for a veriety of reasons. We couldn't even grow without it, but it doesn't mean you don't know truth-consciously and subconsciously.

Humans are sexual beings. Doesn't it seem rather cruel for god to design you with a nature that differs from commanded behavior? What even makes you believe god considers these activities immoral?

well I don't think God created me with a certain sexuality to be cruel. I think we are designed in His image/likeness etc...and are given opportunity in life to learn how to control ourselves, and not be controlled by vices.

Thanks S&H, I'll let you know if I ever start disbelieving in god.

For me, it's easy to quell any conflicts. The way I see it, if there is a God, fine. If there isn't, fine as well. If there was a God, I'd have alot of questions. Like, why are dogs noses cold? Daddy or chips? and any other random question that I want answered.
Don't worry about your conflict pal, just have a good life. And if your lucky, there might be a heaven.

Why would you still believe god yet turn your back on him? Perhaps this vice of yours is too strong to overcome? What makes you think god would be disappointed in this vice anyway? I mean, if your not hurting anybody, I don't see how it can be bad.

I used to be a Christian, though have since gone a different route due to the aquisition of knowledge. As spamandham put it, I ate from the forbidden fruit (and boy does it taste good ).

Originally posted by Kruel
Why would you still believe god yet turn your back on him? Perhaps this vice of yours is too strong to overcome?

Thats just it-there is the great conflict...believing in God and turning my back on him...being angry with Him, feeling ...entitled when we are only entitled to experience life and joy, but it is up to us how we endeavor to live and seek joy-recognize it, appreciate it

I don't know...and it's not like it all has to do with one vice...like I can't stop having premarital sex or soemthing it's a whole

Damn it, my situation sucks...and I'm mad it does and it's not fair type temper tantrum...stupid and childish, but it's grown from this for the past year into being an excuse to behave in ways I didn't use to , or had given up rather...and now I want to make things right...I don't want to be estranged...I don't think things can EVER get better if I stay with my back turned, but at the same time...

some of these vices have helped kill the pain a little...eased the lonliness of this life...and it's hard to want to embrace the pain and lonliness for His sake...

guess I'm bitter, and can't figure out how not to be...

maybe I'm just scared...weak...not wanting to give up my vices because I know what God expects of me and I'm just not sure I can live that life anymore...

*sigh*

[edit on 20-2-2006 by think2much]

Sounds to me like you can't live life anymore because you feel you can't live up to "God's expectations". What makes your God so good if he expects unreasonable things? You are only human( I hope) and chances are you make mistakes. Live your life how you feel is right, and if your God is worthy of any praise, you shouldn't have a problem.

Well, I would suggest doing what you feel is RIGHT, rather than what you want. Otherwise you'll just end up feeling guilty. The only problem would be is if by quitting your vices, somehow you end up hurting someone else... in which case you'd feel guilty either way. Then it comes down to a question of what is the lesser evil?

If you had given up, you'd be indifferent, but you're not. I was 11 or 12 when I decided I didn't believe in the devil, heaven, or hell. Not long after that I concluded that I didn't buy the ' died on the cross so that his blood washed away my sins.' I guess that was really the end of my being Christianity. Still, I don't feel I have given up on God, I just accept that I am not sure that there is a god, nor do I believe that if there is a god, he has a pet religion. If god is real, I think forgiveness is pretty much a given. I would be surprised if any person of any faith, atheism, or whatever, would be beyond his ability to forgive. For sure, many are well beyond mine, serial killers for example. But I agree with MacDonagh, God or no God, no diff. Like the Dalai Lama said, "My religion is kindness."

Originally posted by think2much

If you have inner conflict, your beliefs are not what you think they are. Your subconscious tells you what you do believe, but your conscious mind tells you what you want to believe.

says you. I don't buy it.

Don't take my word for it then. Do some research into how the mind works for yourself.

I suggest "How the Mind Works" by Steven Pinker. It's easy to read and entertaining in addition to being a treasure trove of knowledge on the topic.

Humans are sexual beings. Doesn't it seem rather cruel for god to design you with a nature that differs from commanded behavior? What even makes you believe god considers these activities immoral?

Originally posted by think2much
well I don't think God created me with a certain sexuality to be cruel. I think we are designed in His image/likeness etc...and are given opportunity in life to learn how to control ourselves, and not be controlled by vices.

If you're wrong about that, then you are torturing yourself needlessly. Why do you believe that god wants you to deny yourself in this regard?

Originally posted by think2much
I don't know...and it's not like it all has to do with one vice...like I can't stop having premarital sex or soemthing it's a whole

Try a mental experiment. Imagine what your life would be like if you could engage in these "vices" without objection from god (presuming they are legal. If not, seek professional help immediately). Wouldn't that be fantastic!? Don't you think that prize is worth determining whether or not your ideas about god are really true? Odds are you can't even give a rational explanation as to why you think god doesn't want you to enjoy your body.

Try another one. Suppose 20 years from now, you finally address the question head on, and determine that god could care less what you do without your clothes off, assuming he exists at all. Wouldn't you hate it to discover you had needlessly tortured and deprived yourself all those years? That's a real possibility if you don't face it head on right now.

Originally posted by think2much
Thanks S&H, I'll let you know if I ever start disbelieving in god.

...glad to help when I can.

In the meantime, enjoy the dilema.

[edit on 20-2-2006 by spamandham]

Originally posted by Kruel
Well, I would suggest doing what you feel is RIGHT, rather than what you want. Otherwise you'll just end up feeling guilty.

While this is certainly true, if you think about why you think something is right or wrong, you may discover your basis was groundless, and you may then change what you think is right or wrong.

Originally posted by The Zodiac
Sounds to me like you can't live life anymore because you feel you can't live up to "God's expectations". What makes your God so good if he expects unreasonable things? You are only human( I hope) and chances are you make mistakes. Live your life how you feel is right, and if your God is worthy of any praise, you shouldn't have a problem.

That is just it though-I do believe we have expectations to live up to. Commandments to follow, universal law we are subject to etc....

What makes my God so good? Well He created me...my spirit, my mind, gave this body for me-gives me opportunity for immortality, progress, etc...

I don't think I feel it is unrealistic what He expects of us...it just seems to me...unfair to ME considering MY circumstances etc...and I know He simply can not intervene with free will for everyone's happiness-through trials we grow, through unrighteous acts we condemn ourselves...I don't want to be condemned, I would like to continue to grow...I just had a temper tantrum and can't seem to snap out of it...

Sure my God is worthy of praise and forgives...but what am I to do, live as I wish and then call upon that forgiveness on my death bed? Live with consequences not of my conscious but eternal law?

*sigh*

Originally posted by spamandham
If you have inner conflict, your beliefs are not what you think they are. Your subconscious tells you what you do believe, but your conscious mind tells you what you want to believe.

My problem is that to me, not that it isn't logical to know that conflict=a conscious thought or choice vs a subconscious one, or a passive belief with an active one, or two polar opposite conscious ones...you can call conflict anything you want it doesn't prove one way or another...

to say my beliefs are not what they seem is in error I guarantee you...if my beliefs were anything other...then I'd have no conflict. My conflict is in what I believe vs how I live contradictory to it, not what I endeavor to believe or think I do. My conflict isn't in thought, it is in belief vs ACTION spamandham

To think my conflict is strictly intellectual of "belief"...you are just missing the mark S&H

that is some kind of blanket statement of blind faith...like if I was an athiest/agnostic but started to believe in God...started to see signs and feel a stir in my heart and I resisted it because I didn't WANT to believe it could be true...and I started to feel conflict...

are you then going to say that the conflict is because of the same reasons...of course...it is intellectual conflict of thought of belief with new thoughts of belief...one maybe conscious one subconscious ...spiritual even

Originally posted by spamandham
Don't take my word for it then. Do some research into how the mind works for yourself.

See, this is where you error, this is not a matter of mind vs mind...conscious vs subconscious...my conflict isn't do I believe in God? Are my beliefs of God correct? Etc...

my conflict is, in whatever I do believe, I live contrary to it at times right now

Originally posted by spamandham
If you're wrong about that, then you are torturing yourself needlessly. Why do you believe that god wants you to deny yourself in this regard?

I believe there are reasons we are given laws and dictates to live by. I believe it isn't to deny ourselves in vain but to curb our appetites as an exercise in self control and obedience-our basic reasons for living this mortal life.

As far is if I am wrong, and this conflict is then in vain, then good, I wont suffer for my sins as I worry...as for the anguish of believing I am in the wrong for now, though, I'll answer what if I am right? ignorance of the law, of not believing ...I don't think it goes very far...perhaps in the far corners of the world where they have never heard the truth, yes, but not for those presented with it who say "but I dind't know! I didn't believe! There was no proof! I was deceived, it isn't my fault...yadda yadda yadda" etc.

Originally posted by spamandham
Try a mental experiment. Imagine what your life would be like if you could engage in these "vices" without objection from god (presuming they are legal. If not, seek professional help immediately).

Sorry had to stop there an LOL...no it's pretty much legal, well yeah in today's society... yeah most of it is....I mean we are saying an experiment of doing whatever I wanted in thought, not in action, so yeah there is no harm or legality issues in thought! No thought police as of yet, right!

Originally posted by spamandham
Wouldn't that be fantastic!? Don't you think that prize is worth determining whether or not your ideas about god are really true?

OMG :LMAO you are killing me Spamandham!!!! DO you realize how absurd a view that is?

To say that we should have no deity to rule over us, govern the universe, etc...to say we do not...to say to just deny the fact is enough to make all our dreams come true is proof enough to abandon belief in God...you've got to be kidding?

Is that why you stopped believing...because it cramped your style... because you did the mental exercise and said "Hell yeah, immoral living, and selfish endeavors that hurt other people and destroying families...what the hell...it's what will make me happy and that is all that matters...I am unhappy because of the unfair expectations religion and God put on me and thus I will decide this moral conflict of living due to the dictates of my conscience, proves there must not be a god, my beliefs must not be what I think they are...I must be in error to believe in God because I'd be happier if I dind't have to...and wasn't required to live up to any standards imposed by god or religion...thus there is no God and I am now free from conflict and conscience to live to the moral dictates of myself only."

Man that is sweet

and sad

Originally posted by spamandham
Odds are you can't even give a rational explanation as to why you think god doesn't want you to enjoy your body.

well maybe not to you, but as I have stated it isn't just about my body/sexuality etc...however in that respect, it is quite logical to me, as I have already stated, to realize for many reasons we need to exercise self control in many ways...for the sake of the exercise of self control and the exercise of obedience, and then there are other more specific reasons depending on specifics infractions and why we'd be led away from such, and what the benefits would be from abstaining, and the downfalls of not etc, but I don't want to get *that* specific here.

Originally posted by spamandham
Try another one. Suppose 20 years from now, you finally address the question head on, and determine that god could care less what you do without your clothes off, assuming he exists at all. Wouldn't you hate it to discover you had needlessly tortured and deprived yourself all those years? That's a real possibility if you don't face it head on right now.

Face what? My conflict is not what if there is no God, or what if God doesn't care...

and again...what if I lived thinking there was no God, abandoned my faith, lived as I wished...loved it...and 20 years down the line realized I was wrong, there is a God, and I threw away 20 years just so I could say "Oh no, God...I dind't know...I stopped belieinvg...I lost my faith, I was duped, I was decieved..." and He says "WHATEVER! You are full of it and we both know it" and forgives me sure...but to what end...I wouldn't have progressed for those 20 years...something that cannot be made up for -we get one mortal life...

worse yet, many of the anguish and heart ache of those 20 years of living free of the dictates of religion and God...could have been avoided...had I had God in my life...how could I live with that? Knowing much of the suffering of those years could have been avoided...

so that kind of thinking doesn't work for me S&H

Originally posted by spamandham

In the meantime, enjoy the dilema.

Well, lets hope its a progressive process of growth shall we...

one day I hope to get it back to good... I believe in God...I just have to learn not to give up on Him

[edit on 21-2-2006 by think2much]

[edit on 21-2-2006 by think2much]

think2much:
I believe I may have some advice that can help you. Try talking to God and explain your predicament. I will post more later as I have to go back to work. Don't give up on Him.

Originally posted by mytym
think2much:
I believe I may have some advice that can help you. Try talking to God and explain your predicament. I will post more later as I have to go back to work. Don't give up on Him.

Oh I have prayed...but he's stopped striving with me...He gives me the answer that I don't want to hear...He tells me the truth I don't want to act on, and He leaves me to wonder, in vain it seems, about the best way to handle my present situation

...but that is my fault too...the answer is there...I just haven't done my part to obtain it...

there are no pearls case before swine...I pray...I ask...but I still behave like swine...

what is my problem?!?!?!?!

I think I fear the final answer...I think I fear giving up the natural security of behaving like swine for an answer I don't want to hear...and then...I'll have nothing...I get the answer that I must do what I do not wish to...live a life with a person I don't want to...and then...without vice to top it all off!

a life without the swine security in the world...

ah....tell me mytym, what pearls have you for this swine?

[edit on 21-2-2006 by think2much]

Originally posted by think2much
Oh I have prayed...but he's stopped striving with me...He gives me the answer that I don't want to hear...
what is my problem?!?!?!?!
...I think I fear giving up the natural security of behaving like swine for an answer I don't want to hear...and then...I'll have nothing...I get the answer that I must do what I do not wish to...live a life with a person I don't want to...and then...without vice to top it all off!
a life without the swine security in the world...
ah....tell me mytym, what pearls have you for this swine?
[edit on 21-2-2006 by think2much]

You are hardly swine unless I am misinterpreting your posts. You have a strong internal conflict that you can see clearly but have chosen not to resolve. It seems as though you know what your options are, but are not comfortable with any of them. In some cases, we must choose the lesser of two evils. In my life, about twelve years ago, I had the choice to make of being with someone I didn't want to be, or not. If I had, everyone involved would have been ecstatic but me, and I considered doing it, but didn't. If there is a God, or Jesus, or whatever, does that really make any difference in your decision?
It would not in mine. I acknowledge that there may be a God, but I do not have a fear of God, or Satan, or judgement. Nobody's perfect.
'And it harm none, do what you will.' Life is too short to feel guilty, and there is no need to do things just because others think it's best. Best for them, maybe, but you're a person too.

think2much:
I understand what you're saying. You know that God exists, therefore choosing to believe that he doesn't to resolve your conflict, is not an option. It would be like telling yourself that the grey hat you are wearing is not grey. Pointless.

I take great comfort in the fact that God knows everything about me, including any deep dark secrets I may have. He knows my true motives behind the decisions that I make. He even knows things about me that I myself don't even know. This may sound like a negative to some, but despite all this he still loves me and accepts me as I am.

I constantly talk with God, ask for forgivesness and try to rationalise my actions, and eventually God allows me to find peace with them. His forgiveness knows no bounds. One of the many great things about Him is that no matter what a person does, God will always accept him/her unconditionally.

I have come to the understanding that God does not set down absolute rules which you must live your life by. It is up to you to justify your actions, and to accept the consequences of those actions. These consequences are not handed out by God, but by ourselves.

If you are comfortable with your behaviour and your decisions, then I believe God is comfortable with them too. God had no involvement with the Bible or religon, these are man's creations, thus take from them what you wish, but don't fear that the consequences they teach will come to fruition.

I can't tell you what to think, feel, or believe, only you can decide that. I can only offer my realisations in the hope that it may ease your burden.

Good luck.

Originally posted by mytym
I have come to the understanding that God does not set down absolute rules which you must live your life by. It is up to you to justify your actions, and to accept the consequences of those actions. These consequences are not handed out by God, but by ourselves.

Mytym, I have not come to the same conconclusions.

I believe there are reasons God does give us specific laws and guidelines.

I believe He does not punish us for our actions, however I think because He lays down laws that there are then consequences...or he lays down such laws because the consequences of those actions already exist as a universal truth, and thus He tries to guide us, by exhortation and commandments, laws, warning etc...all for our own benefit...not so He can control us and punish us though.

Originally posted by mytym
If you are comfortable with your behaviour and your decisions, then I believe God is comfortable with them too.

That to me is almost like what spamandham advocates...live for yourself, do what you want, be happy, do not be subject to any authority but your own because there is no God...only your spin is "because if you are happy then so is God"

Yes, indeed, I'd have no conflict if I believed we were free to live any way we please with no accountability to God, or the universal laws of order, justice, etc...

Originally posted by mytym
God had no involvement with the Bible or religon, these are man's creations, thus take from them what you wish, but don't fear that the consequences they teach will come to fruition.

I find, not just because of religious history, but through my own confirmations, that though God didn't directly dicate the Bible, and certainly men have corrupted so much in the world including the Bible... that I do believe there are viable routes God takes such as speaking to men (prophets) directly through whatever means He wishes and also inspiring them to write accounts for the benefit of mankind -much of which is included, even if sometimes corrupted in the Bible etc.

Originally posted by mytym
I can't tell you what to think, feel, or believe, only you can decide that. I can only offer my realisations in the hope that it may ease your burden.
Good luck.

Thank you. I apprecaite your understanding of my conflict and your perspective.