New British UCAV demonstrator

I moved back to Oxfordshire at the end of 2005 with work but whilst we lived just outside of blackpool the stuff you can see flying around warton is amazing.
Im just waiting for the diamond shaped craft to be revealed, beacuse that used to be our favorite, although that was only flown towards dusk, and that went strainght out to sea, again accompanied at times by the hawk trainer jet. Size wise the UCAVS are just a bit longer and wider than a hawk.

Any more information about this aircraft? When it was flying, when it first appeared, dimensions etc?

Just for clarrity you're saying that you say Corax (or something like it), a swept wing Corax (Raven or Kestrel) and a diamond shape aircraft?

Also by diamond do you mean like the X-47 or diamond wing as in the Petit Duc?

The diamond shaped craft has the intake set further back (about 20% of the length into the body area from the nose) and has a sharply swept straight edge to the wing, and a serrated rear edge like a mini B-2 with the same exhaust / tail combo ie flattend. It was again just a bit longer than the hakw we saw it with, and about 6 feet wider in the wings. There were no vertical surfaces, and the body / wing area is blended as in the corax design to be a smooth all in one shape. The craft had one very strange feature. On the body the craft had two orange panels ( Large, about 6 feet in length) and they were bright enough to be seen well on a summer evening. We first saw this in March 2004 (second week of march) whilst sat on the dunes. We heard the hawk first, and as the hawk passed over head ( Directly above) It was followed by this black and orange diamond shaped craft. The Hawk began to turn out towards the sea, and this craft smoothed round to follow. from where we were sat we could see that this diamond had no copit, just the smoothed in inlet on the top. The craft was exceptionaly quiet, and climbed well as it headed out to sea.


Have just seen an x-47 pic....and yes, almost identical apart from the inlet is deeper ie less conformal, and the rear of the wings are serrated not straight with the wing tips being flat not pointed.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by MadGreebo]

I think this may have been seen before, but to me it high lights just how focused on stealthy ucav's BAe are.

makes a great springboard for technology if yyou have all these universities working together to create new tech...awesome stuff.

Sorry heres the link for you.

www.engineeringtalk.com...

makes you realise just how advanced the uk might actually be in this field. Now if we can just find replicia information ( Is it flying, dead or in limbo?) we'd be sorted

I'm don't quite understand some of your description;

This is what I think of when you say diamond planform,


But this is the best I can come up with that fits the description of a serrated diamond wing,


I haven't got a clue what you mean when you say the wing tips are flat.

Edit - On Replica, the project was completed in 1999 after the full scale mock up was tested, BAE and the MoD then went on to develop the Nightjar testbody.

[edit on 23-2-2006 by Mike_A]

A question. I have drawn a picture of the aircraft to visualise what I saw for you. How do i post it here? If any one wants it u2u me and ill email it to you. Its very basic, done in paint so be nice, as its just a demo of the object not a photorealistic image..

ok I got an image i drew from paint on file shack...



img442.imageshack.us...

the orange is the same top and bottom... is really distinct from the grey body.


[edit on 23-2-2006 by MadGreebo]

nice, so now i know what corax/herti and raven is.

whats that kestral one people are talking about?? - is that the black one at the top right hand side?

that one looks WELLL nice

Originally posted by Mike_A
Here some bigger versions of the pics above;

[edit on 23-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Steve, images of Kestrel haven't been published yet. The aircraft in that picture is a STOVL concept from RR.

Greebo, like this?

THATS MY BABY!!! Oh man thats spot on.... Your the man for the image!


Youve nailed it. Thats exactly what we saw. same size, same damn grey colour, and those freaky orange patches, which were not lights, but very very orange. I take my hat off to you for the post.

As i say, we started to see this mid march, about 4 pm just as it was getting towards sun set. We never saw this with any other aircraft apart from the hawk. Thats what made it so damn smart, seeing this in tight with the hawk as they climbed out over the sea.

Edit - On Replica, the project was completed in 1999 after the full scale mock up was tested, BAE and the MoD then went on to develop the Nightjar testbody.

Is their a subtle clue in this nomenclature? The name 'Nightjar' is what I'm referring to, in relation to the Lockheed F-117 'Nighthawk'. You see Nightjar and Nighthawk were the names of two, related, fighter planes which were built by one of BAE Systems predecessor companies 'Nieuport' (later called Gloster) in the 1920's and I've a feeling there may be some significance in this.

Also, I'm prestty certain that the teo pictures posted by steve o do NOT show a STOVL aircraft, but a swept wing CTOL UAV based on the Corax centre body.

waynos, he is talking about that REAL sweet looking piece in the corner of the image....Just what it is i have no idea, but hell it sure looks to be the biscuit!

Can you enlighten us to what that VTOL craft is at all?

Oh did I say thanks for the image you made? its now my desk top

Yes, and I also notice they were his pics and not steves. I should take more time to read stuff before I start. Sorry Mike, top material of course

By the way, do you think there might be something in the use of the Nightjar name as I postulated above?

[edit on 23-2-2006 by waynos]

Thanks, I try my best

A few more questions;

1 - How long was this flying for each time it went out?
2 - Over what time period did you see this fly (just March?)?
3 - What did it look like underneath, could you see any sign of an internal weapons bay?
4 - Did it have any lights?
5 - Was there only one of these aircraft?
6 - How far away was the Hawk from this aircraft?
7 - What was the base up to (could you see the special projects hanger)?
8 - Was there any attempt at increasing security when this was flying (did you see any guards looking around or anything like that)

I'm sure I'll think of some more so check the thread regularly!


Edit - Waynos, not sure to be honest, after being so certain about Raven not existing because Corax meant Raven in latin and being so wrong about that I'm a little more open to this kind of theory of yours. Nightjar as I've been told is a ground based test body which is used to demonstrate airframe features of advanced aircraft concepts. I've seen the test body it is definatley real, whether this is a bluff or not I don't know but I lean towards believing the official line. Then again Douglass Barrie, who broke the story on Nightjar, originally reported it as a full blown UCAV and his sources are generally good and he himself is well respected. So maybe there is something to it.



[edit on 23-2-2006 by Mike_A]

1) About an hour and a half in march the first time we saw it. We watched it go out and heard it come back in with the hawk.

2) Not just March but till the end of september we saw it on and off. Once we saw it as we were going to the isle of man on a ferry, and that was July on a friends birthday. Passed overhead direction of travel scotland.

3) Cannot be sure

4) wing tip lights like an airplane has. White light on a flushed in mount about a foot from the nose.

5) Only ever saw one of them, and it was always with the hawk chase / radar blocking chase plane.

6) The furthest we ever saw the hawk away from it was about quater of a mile max. When climbing out / coming in always almost right on top of each other.

7) special projects hanger??? omg no way?No, but heres a strange thing I remember. Eurofighter would spool up like it was taking off, then the engines died down and the hawk could be heard and thats how we knew it was around, because eurofighter would kick up a fuss as these took off.

8) We always were out of fence sight on the dunes. We never attempted to get closer than that.

9) heres a thought about Lancashire. The locals didn't give two monkeys about ANY aircraft flying around. We'd leap like loonies whilst watching stuff from the dunes, but locals didn't even raise an eye brow??!!. The nearest I got to concern from a local was "Yeah they noisy some times... but never late late at night so i dont mind..."

Waynos, thats a good thought about nightjar... keep it in mind when snooping around! You never know what may drop in your lap at any time!

Thanks, a few follow ups;

1 – Did you ever see it come back in or did you just hear it?
2 – Do you think flights ended in September or were you just not in a position to know whether it was flying?
7 – Did a Typhoon always make a fuss like that?
8 – Here’s an image of the Warton area, could you mark out the areas where you saw it from.

9 – Did any of the locals talk about seeing things like this before?

If possible could you give me a list of the number of times you saw the aircraft and the specific dates and times that you saw it, if you can’t remember exactly when and how many times a ball park figure will do.

I assume you didn’t take any pictures or anything.

Hopefully I’ll be able to make some enquiries and find out what this is or at least whether or not any else has reported it. Don’t hold your breath though I’ll probably end up with the “we can neither confirm nor deny that” answer, I went through the same thing with HALO, but hopefully the new found openness BAE has will bode well.


PS - I don't have any more info on the STOVL concept, sorry.

1) Saw it coming in only twice after March. Mid april (first week was house hunting with Fiancee) and end of August ( With people on beach ) ALWAYS with the Hawk.

2) Sept was last time I saw it with my own eyes, BUT fiancee often saw it real early in morning 6-7 am on way to work ( Blackpool Vic Hospital) last sighting was October 2004.

3) Not sure. Times we saw it, yes eurofighter did make a damned racket.

4) From warton follow the large river bed to go out to sea, and you will see in the image a small inlet. This is where our friends live, and where we spent alot of our time out on the sand. wind kartings cool fun!

March 3 times. April/May half a dozen. June, once real early in the morning . July on the ferry at medium alt. Once in august again going out to sea climbing sharp. Sept was the last time I saw it, and that was sept 6th at 0715 am. Why so precise? Fiancees birthday and we were on the beach having a breakfast

More questions!

Were the orange panels rectangular?
What did the aircraft sound like?
Was the aircraft constantly climbing or did you see it level out?
Did the aircraft have any aerials or anything like that?
Do you remember anything significant about the Hawk?
Was it always the same Hawk?
What was the serial number of the Hawk?
Did the aircraft or the Hawk advertise itself (did it have its landing lights on etc)
Did the Hawk have anything on the wing pylons?

I haven’t found any similar sightings from around the area, though I was looking on the MoD’s FOI page so they may have been removed if they were there.

my not a plane spotter but I gather www.scramble.nl has an avid planespotter community who no doubt camp outside places like Warton. If these UAV sightings are credible, Scramble would surly know about them.

Thanks, I've stuck a quick message on there now.