Cheney ordeal blown outta porportion?

Originally posted by missed_gear
imo, the jokes and political cartoons that stemmed from the accident were more intriguing than the articles.

They're great, aren't they?

Hunting accidents happen, most never get reported unless there is a serious injury.

Have you heard the phrase "serious as a heart attack"?

Just messin' witcha!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Now .. for RANT.... I hadn't heard about any alcohol
before you posted it. Do you know how much alcohol
the VP was supposedly drinking that day and at what
time he drank it. Was it a beer at lunch and then out
shooting at dinner time? Or was it drink 3 beers at
lunch and go out hunting with one in his hand?
Amount of alcohol and the time from the consumption
to the hunting accident are key. He's a hefty fella
and not a lightweight drinker. Do you have any
of this info. I'm curious. After you posted, I looked on
the internet and couldn't find anything. Thanks.

It went from ZERO alcohol to "one beer with lunch" by the time he played softball with Brit Hume. It doesn't take a partisan to imagine the alcohol (and lack of a hunting license) had something to do with the overnight delay in reporting the accident. And we all know what "one beer" means.

It's really all over the news and Internet.

Editor & Publisher

Cheney on TV: 'Unapologetic' About Handling of Shooting

By Joe Strupp and Greg Mitchell

Published: February 15, 2006 3:45 PM ET

NEW YORK In an exclusive interview with Fox News' Brit Hume this afternoon, Vice President Dick Cheney took full responsibility for shooting his hunting companion, who has until now been pictured as the guilty party. The interview will not air in full until 6 p.m., but according to Hume, in summarizing the contents, the vice president remained "totally unapologetic" about the long lag in reporting the shooting to the public -- and also said that he had consumed one beer at lunch that day.

Honest occifer. It was one beer.

Speaking on camera and disclosing some of the unaired footage, Hume said Cheney was "utterly unapologetic" about the reporting lag but "a shaken man" in his interview. In comments on the cable channel just minutes after ending a 25-minute interview with Cheney, Hume described the encounter as revealing, but with little contrition on Cheney's part.

"He didn’t blame anyone else, he blamed himself [for the shooting]," Hume told Fox's Shepard Smith during a brief conversation. "But he didn't take blame for the way it was handled…the White House press corps be damned."

The handling of the alcohol coverup reveals more than anything. Who do you believe?

Hume indicated that Cheney called last Saturday's accidental shooting "one of the worst days of my life," but that the vice president was certain that he handled it correctly by waiting nearly a day to make it public. He also revealed that Cheney disclosed having a beer with lunch that day, but stressed that it was several hours before the shooting occurred.

Ranch owner Katharine Armstrong has said no one hunting that day had any beer. The Los Angeles Times reported on Tuesday that it had been told that the hunters that day "broke for a lunch of antelope, jicama salad and camp bread, washed down with Dr. Pepper." Armstrong later modified her remarks, saying there may have been beer in coolers but she didn't think anyone who was hunting that day had any.

CNN today reports that Armstrong had told CNN she never saw Cheney or Whittington "drink at all on the day of the shooting until after the accident occurred, when the vice president fixed himself a cocktail back at the house."

So Cheney didn't start drinking heavily until after he shot a man in the face? A good DUI lawyer will tell you to do the same thing. Let the cops find you drinking after the accident and tell them you started then.

Originally posted by RANT
It went from ZERO alcohol to "one beer with lunch" by the time he played softball with Brit Hume. It doesn't take a partisan to imagine the alcohol (and lack of a hunting license) had something to do with the overnight delay in reporting the accident. And we all know what "one beer" means.

Hey, there, RANT

Well, in my drinking days, one drink could mean anything form one drink to a dozen.
I can think of NO reason to not report until the next day except alcohol.

These politicians are all beginning to make me WANT to drink, btw.
:w:

OMG!!!! On Cops they pulled a guy over who was swerving, he gets out of the car, they ask how much he had, his response? "1 Beer." Right before he stumbles and face dives into the road.

So, this guy and the president have something in common! just "1 beer" is enough to get them happy!

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DevinS
First you criticize me for saying he drank a 12 pack,
then later you admit you never heard of Cheney drinking.

Two different things. You are posting that he drank a 12 pack
as a fact - which common sense says is pathetic and impossible.
I said that I hadn't heard of any alcohol involved. YOU lied.

For all we know ...

See, you DON'T know.
Stop posting supposition and bias as facts. You have become
a joke. Not worthy of having a discussion with, on this or
any of the other threads you are plastering with exaggerated
crap.

He says a beer ..

So you knew it was one
beer, and yet you posted 12. Liar.

anytime a VP shoots someone it is a shooting spree,

Stupid. A hunting accident where a man gets birdshot in the
face is NOT a shooting spree. Colombine was a shooting spree.
Grow up and learn the difference. You demean those who die
in actual shooting sprees, and you demean those who investigate.
(much as you demean women with your vile rhetoric elsewhere)

Originally posted by RANT
"one beer with lunch"

Okay. So is there anyone who has come forward to say
something different? Anyone who served them? Anyone
who saw them? Drivers? Medics? Hospital folks? Anyone
who was in contact with the other members of the hunting
party other than Cheney? And it was hours from the beer at lunch
- which included food - until they were hunting. Food and
time will wear off a beer.

(and lack of a hunting license)

He had the license. It cost him something like $140. The
hunting license office screwed up and put two of one stamp
on it instead of one each of two different stamps. But he
definately had the license. He had to write another check
for $7 to cover the stamp that he had already paid for that
the license office had put two of the other one of.
(follow that?)

And we all know what "one beer" means.

One beer.

As for the 'having a drink' after the accident .... it could be just
him calming his nerves as he said, or it could be covering.
However, since no one has been able to dispute his having
ONE beer at lunch, then at this point it was just a drink to
calm his nerves after a hunting accident.

NOW I'm starting to see it on the news.
Didn't see it before you mentioned it.


[edit on 2/19/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by RANT
"one beer with lunch"

Okay. So is there anyone who has come forward to say
something different?

Yes. The lady who eventually reported it since Cheney went into hiding.

She said nobody drank. Then he said "one beer" a week later. Then she remembered him drinking after. There'd be noone else to coment from the group you mentioned since they never saw Cheney. He apparently took off after raiding the cocktail bar.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

And we all know what "one beer" means.

One beer.

Right. He probably just had "one beer" before both of his DUI's too.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by RANT
"one beer with lunch"

Okay. So is there anyone who has come forward to say
something different?

See, flyers, I voted for Bush & Co., so I have no politic axe to grind.
But, I have something different to say.

Please, give me a good reason to not report it until the next day? The ONLY time I can thing to not notify the authorites of something like this is when you've had too much to drink. When your sobriety is an issue!!!
I am going by personal experience here.

BTW, I'd like to knwo how the hell someone gets medical treatment for a gunshot wound and the police aren't called IMMEDIATELY.
(After seeing the victim, the wound don't look very extensive?)

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by FlyersFan

And we all know what "one beer" means.

One beer.

Right. He probably just had "one beer" before both of his DUI's too.

Like I said, how drunk does one need to be in order to get TWO DUIs in the least populated state in the US, WYOMING, and during the 1960s when no one thought driving under the influence was a problem???

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Please, give me a good reason to not report it until the next day? The ONLY time I can thing to not notify the authorites of something like this is when you've had too much to drink. When your sobriety is an issue!!!
I am going by personal experience here.

BTW, I'd like to knwo how the hell someone gets medical treatment for a gunshot wound and the police aren't called IMMEDIATELY.
(After seeing the victim, the wound don't look very extensive?)

There's no getting around it, DTOM... he most likely had a few stiff ones. But he could have just as well had them after the accident. Nobody wants to face the press all glassy-eyed.

So we can suspect all we want, it we have no proof. I guess we all learned a lesson from Teddy Kennedy.

As for not contacting the police, isn't the hospital responsible for reporting cases of gunshot?

Originally posted by jsobecky
As for not contacting the police, isn't the hospital responsible for reporting cases of gunshot?

Yes, it is. Why do you suppose they didn't?

Tex. Health & Safety Code § 161.041. Mandatory Reporting of Gunshot Wounds

A physician who attends or treats, or who is requested to attend or treat, a bullet or gunshot wound, or the administrator, superintendent, or other person in charge of a hospital, sanitorium, or other institution in which a bullet or gunshot wound is attended or treated or in which the attention or treatment is requested, shall report the case at once to the law enforcement authority of the municipality or county in which the physician practices or in which the institution is located.
Source

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Please, give me a good reason to not report it until the next day?

Don't get me wrong, DTOM, I am of the opinion that ALL politicians
lie and spin and lie and spin. Absolutely. And I fully understand
what RANT was saying ... if you have been drinking then the first
thing to do to cover up is to drink in front of everyone immediately
after the incident. Absolutely.

Reasons not to report it until the next day? Is it the job of the
shooter and/or hunters to report it? Or is it the job of the hospital
and/or medical personnel? Exactly WHO didn't get 'reported to'?
The police, or the media, or both? If the complaint is that the
media didn't get 'reported to', then that's a 'nothing'. If it's the
police that didn't get reported to, then either someone screwed
up in not reporting it on purpose, or because the ATF, Secret
Service, and probably the FBI were involved as well, wanna' bet
they were all turf fighting and not reporting to the locals? I'm
sure the Secret Service and FBI don't view the local police as
'high up' the food chain. At least that's what I have been lead
to believe from listening to them speak on TV interviews.

Local cops often complain of being 'left out' when the feds are
involved.

how the hell someone gets medical treatment for a gunshot
wound and the police aren't called IMMEDIATELY.

IS birdshot a 'gunshot'?? I don't know, is it? It's bunches of
little bead like things that all get shot out of a gun, but would
bird shot be considered 'gunshot'?? I'm not up on the legalities
of Texas ballistics. I don't know if bird shot pellets qualify as
bullets.

[edit on 2/19/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by RANT
Yes. The lady who eventually reported it since Cheney went
into hiding. She said nobody drank. Then he said "one beer"
a week later. Then she remembered him drinking after.

Then she's the definitive one we all need to hear from.

Did she see them drinking? If so, how much? How much
time lapsed before they went off to shoot birds? Did she
see any staggering of gait or hear any slurring of words?

Thing is ... lots of us see things but we don't pay attention
because we aren't expecting to have to remember. For
example - I just came back from grocery shopping. Right now
I couldn't tell you who I saw in the store or anything else.
However, if a cop came knocking on my door in few hours
and said that the place was held up after I left, and if he
asked if I remembered anything and gave some details to
jog my mind, I MIGHT remember something, or I might even
remember something WRONG. The mind is a funny thing
like that.

One last comment - everyone is putting Cheney in the limelight
here as the 'bad one'. Honestly ... IF they were all having a
few 'cold brews' and then hunting while still under the influence,
then they are ALL stupid and equally culpable. I know Cheney
is the bigger target, being VP and all, but IF they went hunting
while drinking, then they are all idiots and have no one to blame
except themselves for getting hurt.



[edit on 2/19/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
IS birdshot a 'gunshot'??

Absolutely. It's a gunshot wound. It is shot from a gun. It's a shell filled with small metal pellets.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Have you been to Texas? I'm sure they'd be glad to
have "heavy, tall grass" there!

I lived in Texas for two years. One year in Killeen and
one year in San Antonio. I was in the Army and pulled
'field duty' three times - the month of September, the
month of February and the month of May. This was
out in the field near Killeen.

The reason I said 'heavy, tall grass' is because the picture
shown on TV of the hunting party was with them in the
typical orange hats and vests, in heavy tall grass - up to
their waists. This was shown as the story was being
discussed. It was an official White House Photo.

I was under the impression that was a photo of Cheney's
hunting party from this incident. However, now that we
are discussing it, the TV didn't say it was specifically from
that particular hunting party, so it could have been from
a different one OR it could have been from that one.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by FlyersFan
IS birdshot a 'gunshot'??

Absolutely. It's a gunshot wound. It is shot from a gun.

Great! That's good to know. Thanks for the picture as well.
That's helpful. Now I'm curious. If these pellets qualify as
'gunshot' ... then if someone is wounded by a BB Gun or
playing paintball (that's also shot from a gun), then would
those qualify as gunshot wounds as well.

I know that's a bit off topic, but you seem to know what this
is so I'm just asking for my own education. Thanks.

I don't think it's been blown out of proportion in any way. If that man had died either from the gun shot or from the "minor heart attack" he could and should be charged with manslaughter (by legal definition is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice or premeditation, either express or implied; distinguished from murder, which requires malicious intent.). People go to jail all the time from accidental shootings and I don't see why the Vice President should be considered any different.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It was an official White House Photo.

I didn't see it, but I'd wager it's a very convenient White House Photo.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If these pellets qualify as
'gunshot' ... then if someone is wounded by a BB Gun or
playing paintball (that's also shot from a gun), then would
those qualify as gunshot wounds as well.

No. A BB gun (and paint gun, I believe) uses air to propel the projectile. Not nearly as effective as the powdered explosive used in a shotgun.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
but I'd wager it's a very convenient White House Photo.

Yep. That's what I'm now wondering. Was the photo
that was released to the press of THAT hunting party,
or was it a previous hunt the VP went on. The grass
was definately up to their hips. They all had proper
orange hats and vests. When I was stationed in
Texas (Fort Hood), I saw high full grass out in the field
in May. However, when we went in February, I don't
recall seeing the high grass. It could have been
there, but I don't remember it. May was easy to
remember ... BEAUTIFUL blue bonnets and other
flowers along with the high full grass.

powdered explosive

Excellent. Thanks. That's an easy way to
for me to remember it.