Israel Bombs Syria

Israel is rich because America provides it with a bottomless bank account. Israel withdraws & withdraws ...

No, Israel isn't rich because we give them open-ended checking accounts. They receive a little more than Egypt gets to play nice with them, but it is only so much. They are prosperous because they worked the once barren wasteland and turned it into something.

Israel does not merely pick on poor defenseless peasants. They retaliate against the proper targets after their citizens, men, women and children, are intentionally slaughtered. There is no way to paint a righteous picture on what the terrorists do, or the reasons behind it.
The Arab desire is to remove the Jewish mark from the face of the earth. That is their stated goal. Pussy-foot around all you want, make excuses and blame Israel for not turning the other cheek time and again, and ignore the fact that the neighboring Arab nations are the root cause for the suffering of the "Palestinians", but the facts are just that.

Quoted by Peace:
"Seekerof, why should the 'war on terror' only target Islamic extremists, do you hate only Islamic extremists?"

No, the Arab-Israeli Conflict, as far as I am concerned, and as are others are concerned, is not part of the US War on Terror except, in-so-far as the radical Arab terrorists extend beyond that region. A good example of this is Hamas having it's US-based funding nixxed.

Whether you want to admit it or not.....Syria is a sponsor of Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Hamas, all of which operates and conducts terrorist acts against Israel. They offer Islam Jihad, Hezbollah, Hamas safe haven, diplomatic cover, bases, and logistical support, in return, Syria has a proxy fighting force they can use against Israel. Isreal is too powerful for Syria to attack directly, so they seek to weaken them using third party terrorist groups such as JI, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.

Without such support from Syria, Iran, and other nation's in the Middle East, the attacks against Israel would not be fully possible. Israel is attacking the command and control center of a hostile organization(s), which would be constituted, or seen by some, as acting in self defense.

Syria does not make it a habit to condemn terrorist attacks, period. They usually take the stance that Israel had it coming, and can expect more of the same, while denying any responsibility themselves. They have no interest in preventing further terrorist attacks, however Syria will often restrict their own subordinate groups from such acts, or tell them to increase their attacks, depending on Syria's political needs. Them going to the UN was what they always do.........analogy: you hit your brother and then your brother uses a bat when he hits you back.....you run to mommy, all the while, blaming him for starting it and that you did nothing to incur him hitting you with that bat..........
The UN cows to terrorism, has, and always will!


regards
seekerof

[Edited on 7-10-2003 by Seekerof]

I'd like to thank everyone here for the best laugh I had in a while.

From what I've read, the general concensus here is that Israel, perhaps out of boredom, decided to send some airforce jets into Syria to bomb the hell out of some peasant farmers in a refugee camp simply because they didn't have much else to do. Also, they decided to risk international condemnation out of the desire to satisfy that boredom.

You guys are great

One thing that lot of people here have forgotten.
The camp that Israel bombed was actually shown on Arab TV a month before this incident. The Arabs made no secret that it was a "freedom fighters" base.
They even went so far as to show the rows of weapons in underground bunkers.
Even after the bombing, Islamic Jihad stated that it had been used as a base.

news.bbc.co.uk...

By the way: if this was a "civilian refugee camp" as Syria is now reporting it to be, how many "civilian" casualties were there?

To me it doesn't matter that Israel bombed the base. The plain fact is that Syria should not have been harbouring and training terrorists.

Leveller, Islamic Jihad doesn't have to make any claims. Their defense is taken care of by the nice folks in Europe and the nice Left Wingers here in the states. It doesn't matter if Islamic Jihad admits it was a training base for their "operations". If the Leftys say it's a refugee camp, then it's a refugee camp by golly.

Israel ownes the U.S

Usrael.

'Has anyone even bothered to read on why this attack in Syria occurred?'

This is why I called you out, not for anything else. What Israel did would have been provoked outrage from the US had it not been Israel. Israel is in an unfortunate position, but Israel doesn't make the rules, we cannot live in a world where countries behave like Israel have lately.

Say what you like about Syria, but we all know they are state sponsors of terrorist groups, they are looked upon as a rogue state, even by me! Israel however is supposed to be on the side of the good guys and if they behaved better they would have my full support. Unfortunately they don't.
They are both as bad as each other, two wrongs do not make a right in this instance.

I remeber when the IRA were terrorizing us here in the UK, at the same time my friend was being approached in a NY pub being asked to donate money to... yes you've guessed it, the IRA.

The hypocrisy is too potent for me to accept the US and Israel's arguments regarding the justification of this illegal act of war.

Israel looks like she is making trouble to me, things will get worse if Israel doesn't adopt a less stupid policy. Arielk Sharon is an idiot, so is his Defence Minister, these two are gonna end up killing us all. And that is why Israel's behaviour bothers me, Israel has nukes. This is too serious for us to sit back and just say nothing, it is a very dangerous situation, and something needs to change, something big, soon, or I honestly believe the Israel - Palestine situation is going to escalate in an enormous way.

Seeker: "Originally posted by Jakomo:
"I have yet to see one person provide any proof that this was a terrorist camp (all the linked articles so far have featured info from "Israeli military sources", Raanan Gissin, adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, and other Israeli "sources"). "

"You're the first person who suggested it wasn't. Do you care to explain your reasoning?"

My reasoning is that if you rely on "government sources", you're often going to be led astray of the truth. I don't care what country it is. If the Israeli military says that it's a legitimate target it's just not enough for me. They've lied through their teeth in the past and will continue to do so.

Governments are untrustable. Unnamed "government sources" are INCREDIBLY untrustable.

ThomasCrowne: "Israel doesn't try and sell the world on a damned thing as the world is against her, and always has been. If their intelligence says its a training camp, you may bet the farm that it is a training camp. "

Now THAT'S some funny stuff. It turns out that it WAS a camp, but has been deserted for a few years.

And ask yourself why the "world is against her (Israel)." Is it that every free-thinking person in the world is a dirty anti-Semite? Is it that they are all blinded by pro-Arab propaganda?

Or is it in fact that Israel is a SCOURGE of Human Rights, and has institutionalized State-Sponsored Terrorism against the Palestinian people for almost 30 years? Hmmm, maybe the rest of the world is correct? Not a very big stretch to make. Unless of course, Israelis are just so much smarter than all us Gentiles.

Any compassion I have for innocent Israeli lives lost in suicide bomb attacks are quickly wiped out once the IDF moves into Palestinian REFUGEE camps (the most densely populated areas in the entire world I may add) and kill innocent Palestinians and bulldoze their homes.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. If my government was occupying another country, and constantly harassing and killing it's people, I would expect retribution. And when it happened I wouldn't whine about it, it's common sense and a clear cause and effect relationship.

Israel uses Terror against the Palestinians. Terror in the form of tanks, checkpoints, helicopter attacks against civilians, and bulldozing people's houses. Terror in the form of the world's 5th largest military against kids with rocks and stones.

" They are prosperous because they worked the once barren wasteland and turned it into something. "

ROFL. They're going through incredibly tough economic times right now, and they haven't turned ANY barren wasteland into any agrarian dream, let's be honest. Do they export more food than they import? They bulldoze more Palestinian olive trees than they plant, that's for sure.

"fact that the neighboring Arab nations are the root cause for the suffering of the "Palestinians", but the facts are just that. "

Wow, do you get this stuff on Comedy Central? Now the neighboring Arab countries are to blame for the palestinian problem? Oh, that's rich.


As for that footage of the racks of guns that apparently were at this camp, did anyone notice that most of the weapons were Israeli? Funny thing, huh?


jakomo

Israel does own the US true.

I like the way that the Israeli's were able to fly into Syria almost to Damascas to do this strike.

Says a lot about the so called power of Syria?

Originally posted by Jakomo
My reasoning is that if you rely on "government sources", you're often going to be led astray of the truth. I don't care what country it is. If the Israeli military says that it's a legitimate target it's just not enough for me. They've lied through their teeth in the past and will continue to do so�

�Now THAT'S some funny stuff. It turns out that it WAS a camp, but has been deserted for a few years�

�Governments are untrustable. Unnamed "government sources" are INCREDIBLY untrustable.

Says the government if Syria. Didn�t you just say not to trust government sources? It seems to me that you reserve your skepticism for democracies. Oppressive dictatorial monarchies have your trust.

Originally posted by Jakomo
And ask yourself why the "world is against her (Israel)." Is it that every free-thinking person in the world is a dirty anti-Semite?

Nobody has called you anti-Semite, so why do you throw in this diversion?

Originally posted by Jakomo
Or is it in fact that Israel is a SCOURGE of Human Rights, and has institutionalized State-Sponsored Terrorism against the Palestinian people for almost 30 years? Hmmm, maybe the rest of the world is correct? Not a very big stretch to make. Unless of course, Israelis are just so much smarter than all us Gentiles.

You can compare Israel�s human rights to any nation in the region Including the Palestinian Authority and Israel will come out way ahead. Check out this article as illustration:

www.freerepublic.com...

Originally posted by Jakomo
Any compassion I have for innocent Israeli lives lost in suicide bomb attacks are quickly wiped out once the IDF moves into Palestinian REFUGEE camps (the most densely populated areas in the entire world I may add) and kill innocent Palestinians and bulldoze their homes.

Then those Palestinian-Arabs shouldn�t turn those �refugee camps� into terrorist strongholds. The responsibility is with the terrorists for using civilians as human shields. That�s a war crime, by the way, but you don�t notice war crimes when they�re committed by Arabs.

By the way, urban warfare is the toughest kind of warfare there is precisely because it�s so hard to avoid civilian casualties, yet the IDF consistently outperforms NATO forces in similar operations in minimizing civilian casualties.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Live by the sword, die by the sword. If my government was occupying another country, and constantly harassing and killing it's people, I would expect retribution. And when it happened I wouldn't whine about it, it's common sense and a clear cause and effect relationship.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. If my society worshiped death, glorified murderers, pushed children into battle and was led by a government made up of terrorists who�s only goal for the past 50 years was to destroy a superior nation by constantly harassing and killing it�s people, I would expect to become a bloody smear in the dust. If it happened I wouldn�t whine about it, it�s common sense and a clear cause and effect relationship. That it hasn�t happened in 50 years due to the restraint shown by this superior nation would cause me to re-think the goals and values of my culture.

By the way, when I said superior nation, I meant that in a military sense. Now that I think about it, I realize you can apply just about any standard of measure to that statement and it�s still true.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Israel uses Terror against the Palestinians. Terror in the form of tanks, checkpoints, helicopter attacks against civilians, and bulldozing people's houses. Terror in the form of the world's 5th largest military against kids with rocks and stones.

So obviously those guys with tanks, jets and helicopters are showing a lot of restraint because those kids with rocks are still there. Maybe it�s time to put down those rocks and stones and pick up toys and schoolbooks like normal people so this violence can end.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Wow, do you get this stuff on Comedy Central? Now the neighboring Arab countries are to blame for the palestinian problem? Oh, that's rich.

But true, regardless of your opinion.

Originally posted by Jakomo
As for that footage of the racks of guns that apparently were at this camp, did anyone notice that most of the weapons were Israeli? Funny thing, huh?

I haven�t seen this footage, but it wouldn�t surprise me if the guns were Israeli. Remember that Israel supplied the PA with a lot of guns back in �93 because part of the Oslo agreements was that the PA would use them to stop terrorism. Just one of many broken promises by Arafat.

A spokesman for the UK Government in London said that "while Israel is entitled to take steps to protect itself against terrorist attack, these steps should be within international law".

news.bbc.co.uk...

-----------
oh you mean like how it was within international law for the US & UK to invade Iraq. i see what's going on here now.... dumbass

Talk about "dumbass's".........

"Construction Was Spotted at Syrian Camp Hit by Israel"
Link:
www.nytimes.com... OGLE&adxnnlx=1065753003-uQDOO4fEYySICJDSHe2QwQ

Excerpt:

"In response to repeated inquiries, and after reviewing recent intelligence reports, the American officials agreed on Thursday to share more details about the basis for that conclusion. They spoke on the condition of anonymity.

One official said American spy satellite monitoring at the camp had picked up indications of recent "structural improvements." The camp had been used as recently as six months ago by at least one of two separate factions of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the officials said. But the officials said the evidence of new construction suggested that it "was being fixed up for someone else to use."

The American officials said that they did not know which entity had been making improvements to the camp, but that they could only have been carried out with the knowledge and acquiescence of the Syrian government.

The Damascus government has said the Ain Saheb site was a civilian area with no connection to terrorist groups. But the Syrian authorities have refused to permit reporters access to the site, which is in an area of steep ravines."


regards
seekerof

Mycroft: "Says the government if Syria. Didn�t you just say not to trust government sources? It seems to me that you reserve your skepticism for democracies. Oppressive dictatorial monarchies have your trust."

Show me where I said that. I said I trust none of them.

"Originally posted by Jakomo
And ask yourself why the "world is against her (Israel)." Is it that every free-thinking person in the world is a dirty anti-Semite?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Nobody has called you anti-Semite, so why do you throw in this diversion?"

Um, I said EVERY FREE-THINKING PERSON IN THE WORLD. Whenever there is a report that's critical of Israel, the anti-Semite or anti-Israel card is played.

hometab.bellsouth.net... nes

"Israel on Thursday demanded the withdrawal of a United Nations report on the food situation in the Palestinian territories, claiming the author is politically biased."

Politically biased? Yeah, those damn Swiss.

"You can compare Israel�s human rights to any nation in the region Including the Palestinian Authority and Israel will come out way ahead. Check out this article as illustration:"

An Alan Dershowitz article on FreeRepublic? Haha! He says Jordan is no democracy. Big deal, neither is Israel. Does Jordan have WMD stockpiles? Nope, but Israel does. Why is that?

I can compare Israel's UN record against ALL Arab nations and Israel STILL comes out with FAR more human rights violations. Check with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Red Cross.

"The responsibility is with the terrorists for using civilians as human shields. "

The IDF has been consistently criticized for using Palestinians as human shields, so I guess they're terrorists too. Thanks for pointing that out to us.

"By the way, when I said superior nation, I meant that in a military sense. Now that I think about it, I realize you can apply just about any standard of measure to that statement and it�s still true. "

Nice, so Israel is superior to all Arab nations or ALL other nations? Too bad it's only based on your own racist viewpoint and is totally divorced from reality.

"So obviously those guys with tanks, jets and helicopters are showing a lot of restraint because those kids with rocks are still there. Maybe it�s time to put down those rocks and stones and pick up toys and schoolbooks like normal people so this violence can end."

Cause and effect. Get rid of the tanks and the kids will go away. Common sense. The Illegal Occupation is fuel to the fire of the Intifada. Take away the Occupation and the fire loses its fuel. The Palestinians can then focus on peace instead of avoiding subjugation.

Valiant effort, Mycroft. You can maybe fool yourself with your spotty propaganda, but sorry, you can't hoodwink me.


jako

Looks like the attack was approved by Washington..

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon�s wildcat strike on a purported terrorist training camp in Syria was planned with the support of neo-conservative war hawks in Washington, who maintain close ties to the Likud Party in Israel.

Hours before Israeli fighter bombers attacked Syria, prime minister Ariel Sharon called Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld to tell him what was about to happen. Sharon�s call to Rumsfeld was the climax of weeks of intensive and secret planning between Tel Aviv and Washington to attack what both see as a �terror harboring state.�

www.americanfreepress.net...

Originally posted by Jakomo
Show me where I said that. I said I trust none of them.

When you chose to believe the story of the Syrian government moments after saying you don�t trust government sources.

Originally posted by Jakomo
And ask yourself why the "world is against her (Israel)." Is it that every free-thinking person in the world is a dirty anti-Semite?

No, just the ones that criticize Israel while turning a blind eye to the atrocities committed by the Palestinian-Arabs and neighboring Arabic states.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Um, I said EVERY FREE-THINKING PERSON IN THE WORLD. Whenever there is a report that's critical of Israel, the anti-Semite or anti-Israel card is played.
"Israel on Thursday demanded the withdrawal of a United Nations report on the food situation in the Palestinian territories, claiming the author is politically biased."
Politically biased? Yeah, those damn Swiss.

Nowhere in that article was the term anti-Semite used. Is every charge of bias also a charge of anti-Semitism?

Originally posted by Jakomo
An Alan Dershowitz article on FreeRepublic? Haha! He says Jordan is no democracy. Big deal, neither is Israel. Does Jordan have WMD stockpiles? Nope, but Israel does. Why is that?

Oh, I suppose Jordan�s lack of WMD makes the following okay:

Jordan has a law on its books explicitly prohibiting any Jew from becoming a citizen, or any Jordanian from selling land to a Jew. It has refused to amend this law despite repeated demands.
Jordan has perfected the art of torture and uses it routinely against dissidents, suspected terrorists and perceived opponents of the monarchy. I'm talking about real torture here, not the kind of rough interrogation occasionally employed by the US and Israel. Jordan even threatens to torture and tortures the entirely innocent relatives of suspected terrorists, as it did with Abu Nidal's mother.
The United States is fully aware of Jordan's proficiency in torture, having "subcontracted" some of its own difficult cases to Jordanian "experts" (along with Egyptian and Philippine torture experts). Yet the UN has never condemned Jordan for its use of torture.
Jordan killed more Palestinians in one month September 1970, known as Black September than Israel has killed during the three years of suicide bombings that began in the fall of 2000. The brutality of the Jordanian Army toward Palestinian dissidents and terrorists was far more egregious than anything Israel has ever done.
The Jordanian Army has deliberately bombed civilian areas of Israeli cities in clear violation of international law. In 1967, before Israel fired a single shot at Jordan, the Jordanian Army fired 1,600 missiles into west Jerusalem, targeting apartment buildings, shops and other non-military targets. Israel did not respond by bombing Amman, which it easily could have done. It responded by attacking Jordanian military targets and then offering a cease-fire, which Jordan rejected.
JORDAN IS not a democracy. It is a hereditary monarchy which stifles dissent, freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Its democratic facades a legislature, cabinet, judiciary are all subject to control by the Hashemite minority rulers who were placed in charge of the majority Palestinian population by a colonial decision.

And as the author pointed out, Jordan is among the best of the Arabic nations.

Originally posted by Jakomo
I can compare Israel's UN record against ALL Arab nations and Israel STILL comes out with FAR more human rights violations. Check with Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the Red Cross.

Yeah, check with the organizations that are not allowed into Arabic nations.

Originally posted by Jakomo
The IDF has been consistently criticized for using Palestinians as human shields, so I guess they're terrorists too. Thanks for pointing that out to us.

So you should have no trouble supporting this, right?

Originally posted by Jakomo
Nice, so Israel is superior to all Arab nations or ALL other nations? Too bad it's only based on your own racist viewpoint and is totally divorced from reality.

I think it�s racist to expect restraint from Israel but not civilized behavior from Arabs.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Cause and effect. Get rid of the tanks and the kids will go away. Common sense. The Illegal Occupation is fuel to the fire of the Intifada. Take away the Occupation and the fire loses its fuel. The Palestinians can then focus on peace instead of avoiding subjugation.

And yet the Intifada started when the Palestinian-Arabs and Israelis had a final agreement in place to end the occupation. How do you explain that? Your argument would make more sense if the Palestinian-Arabs had ever focused on peace. They have not.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Valiant effort, Mycroft. You can maybe fool yourself with your spotty propaganda, but sorry, you can't hoodwink me.

But somebody else did.

In my opinion the Syrian government knew about the strike before hand.What better way to help destroy terrorism than to let someone else do it and still not piss off the rest of your Islamic neighbors?They tell them where they are,Israel strikes,and Syria comes out with some statement against the action but with no retaliation.

I'm of the opinion that there has been a suspicious lack of official response to this action.

Why has Israel not mentioned the target of their attack in order to explain this sortie?

Why has Syria, besides the early comments at the UN, not screamed bloody murder?

Why has GW Bush decided not to comment on it?

Speculation;

Was North Korea exporting something besides conventional missiles to Syria, like, maybe nuclear material. They are supposedly dismantling their nuclear weapons capabilities and a buyer is a buyer.

It would explain the silence, wouldn't it?

edit to add vids...

CNN reports and speculates on a weapons shipment from Iran



infolive speculates on a mission to destroy NK nuclear material (good vid)






[edit on 26/9/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by masqua
I'm of the opinion that there has been a suspicious lack of official response to this action.

Why has Israel not mentioned the target of their attack in order to explain this sortie?

Why has Syria, besides the early comments at the UN, not screamed bloody murder?

Why has GW Bush decided not to comment on it?

Speculation;

Was North Korea exporting something besides conventional missiles to Syria, like, maybe nuclear material. They are supposedly dismantling their nuclear weapons capabilities and a buyer is a buyer.

It would explain the silence, wouldn't it?




[edit on 26/9/07 by masqua]

Golly this is an old thread! When I read the OP talking about Arafat still I thought I was stuck in a time warp.

Masqua - Is this post of the same action by the Israelis? I think sometime we become immune to the various attacks from both sides of this issue, so one day in 2003 can be very similar to one day in 2007.

reply to post by EJHoover



It was a mistake on my part. 'Not reading the time stamp' kind of mistake.


< somedays are like that for me

Thanks for pointing that out.