The Zapruder video

Hey guys

i know this video is discussed in a lot of kennedy threads but i think my new take needs a thread of its own im not interested in the theorys behind his death i simply want to prove this video is bunk
i have watched the zapruder video over and over again and believe i have an answer
when you watch you will see there are 2 people in the front of the car the driver and a man who looks like another secret service guy, around 4 seconds before the shot he turns and speaks to them as he turns back the driver looks at him says something takes a glance at the president when the shot is fired you can see what looks like a gun in the drivers hand in this picture: www.assassinationresearch.com...
you can see the secret service mans hair has light reflecting off of it in the shape of a gun. after the shot is made in the man jumps forward giving the impression that the drive has shot him then turned around again

i have also read the opinion the shot must of come from the inside because kennedys wife tries to get out the back of the car but when you look she is actually trying to grab the agents hand to help him onto the car following her training perfectly, all presedents and there fmailies are given lessons by the CIA of what to do in that situation she would of been told over and over if the worst happened she needed to get behind an agent ASAP and tried to do so

i intend to take this video to college on monday and cut it down and try to enhance the actual 'gun' in the drivers hand proving its hair

ill keep you posted

tom

but this is not video - its a 16mm film and does by its very nature lend itself to too much scrutiny. 16mm was shot in a very different manner to how we see most news footage today. Frame by frame is fine if you have access to the original negative - we dont and probably never will have. What is shown on the net is "cobbled" at best.

As a cinematographer friend of mine once said - "do you know what makes as woman photogenic?" - Its the fact that cinema shot - in those days at 1/60 sec the human eye sees at 1/30 sec and in his view that was why women were photogenic.


Now look at the Z film - shot on 16mm probably at 1/60 or 1/120 (i don't have the appetures to hand but i would guess f11 or f8 - now transfered to video - we have little or no chance of making any sense of this now.

very good point, however i do have access so some powerfull video editing software and hardware so i am intending to rip it back onto film frame by frame and then begin to work on it

tom

sorry, but I just don't see a gun when I look at that hair............

I believe you're barking up the wrong tree.

You should ask yourself questions like "Why did the driver maintain his speed at 11 mph through the entire event? even after Kennedy said "I'm hit", everybody heard the first shot, the guv even turned after kennedy said he was hit. Why didn't the secret service make any moves after the first couple shots, they didn't move until the fatal headshot.

"Who was Ruth Paine"?

Why did she go get Marina in Lousiana and invite Lee back to Dallas and get him a job at the schoolbook depository shortly after the motor route was finalized?

Why no news cameras in Dealy plaza.?]

Why was oswald given a dark sweater moments before being transferred?
When he was arrested, he was wearing a light colored shirt and jacket.
You would have seen blood if he was wearing a light shirt anf jacket.
You didn't see any blood because he was given a dark sweater.
Was he wearing a bulletproof vest under the dark sweater?
Was the shot fired by Ruby from a bullet that had a low powder load? Harmless as a bb gun, but loud in the cavernous parking garage.
Why no blood where oswald laid?
Why didn't the bulllet go thru him and hit someone behind him.?
How did he die from a gut shot in minutes?
Why was there no notes,recordings or reports about what oswald said in interrogation. He just shot the prez! why no recording or notes?

I could go on.

Oh yeah, and are we to believe that a guy can get close enough to kill the guy who just killed the prez, AND "KILL" HIM ON LIVE TV.!!!!! In front of cops galore. Talk about a production.!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats why you have ATS and such.

What you are looking for in the Zarapuder film is copys in private collections where they have not been edited. The copys available on the web have the vice presidents car blanked out...
There are supposed to be about 15 or 20 copies unedited ..in private collections around the country. These are the private viewings worth seeing. Anything on the web is for public consumption.

Thanks,
Orangetom

You should ask yourself questions like "Why did the driver maintain his speed at 11 mph through the entire event? even after Kennedy said "I'm hit", everybody heard the first shot, the guv even turned after kennedy said he was hit. Why didn't the secret service make any moves after the first couple shots, they didn't move until the fatal headshot.

People don't move instantaneously. Nobody expected JFK to be shot at. Before JFK got shot, people were a lot less uptight about security. Not like these days, when GWB doesn't even really appear in an uncontrolled public setting.

Nearly everybody thought the first shot was a firecracker or something. The driver might not have even heard JFK in an open limo with a bullet through his neck. The driver actually does slow down when it becomes obvious something has happened, then he accidentally jams the brake for a second, giving the SS man and Jackie time to get back in the car. Then he speeds off. Every reaction is perfectly reasonable for the time and at the time.

Oh, and Jackie isn't reaching for the SS guy's hand, she's reaching for a chunk of JFK's skull and brains. People do odd things when they've just seen somebody's head explode about a foot away from them.

But, hey, in the spirit of keeping an open mind, if you have any information that connects the limo driver with any of the people who might have been involved in the killing, please let us know. Always interested in new info.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Enkidu]

Originally posted by Enkidu

Oh, and Jackie isn't reaching for the SS guy's hand, she's reaching for a chunk of JFK's skull and brains. People do odd things when they've just seen somebody's head explode about a foot away from them.

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Enkidu]

I for one just can't buy that she was reaching for a piece of his skull. It was all so fast that she couldn't possibly have turned and located it. I think the only logical explanation is she was despeartly trying to locate help. She was scared, i think this much is clear from the video.

On the subject of the driver not speeding up untill after the fatal shot. I would have thought that as soon as anything like a shot was heard he would be on the gas to get out of their, but their is nothing.

Enkidu,

"I'm hit" doesn't sound like a fire cracker. The guv turned to look at jfk when he said I'm hit. The driver heard it. Nobody did anything until jfk's head exploded.

I also believe that Jackie was trying to retrieve a piece of her husbands head from the rear deck of the car. If I recall correctly, the original autopsy (or exam) photos from Parkland Hospital showed a considerable piece of skull missing from the right occipital area of JFK's head.

Mike

why do u believe she was trying to retrieve a piece of his skull. What could possibly be going through her head at that time to make her go and try to retrieve it.

The speed she would have to be thinking would be incredible, it seems to me that she was just trying to get the hell out of their. Afterall she has just been right in the middle of something so horrific i don't think any of us here can imagine it.

Well, I really don't think that she was "thinking", in the true sense of the word. I believe she was acting purely on instinct. I think she saw a piece of her husband that they would need to help him recover and went to get it.

Not quite on the same plane but if you were with a close friend that somehow cut off a finger(s), would you not try to retrieve it to help them "heal" later?

Mike

Sure i would, I geuss that makes sense if she was just running on pure instinct and not really thinking everything through.

You make a valid point however i personally believe she was in a state of pure terror ans trying to get the hell out.

Where do you all fine the "im hit" referance because i can't seem to see it anywhere. Is it reported by others in the limmo?

Originally posted by shot messenger

You should ask yourself questions like "Why did the driver maintain his speed at 11 mph through the entire event? even after Kennedy said "I'm hit", everybody heard the first shot, the guv even turned after kennedy said he was hit. Why didn't the secret service make any moves after the first couple shots, they didn't move until the fatal headshot.

"Who was Ruth Paine"?

Why did she go get Marina in Lousiana and invite Lee back to Dallas and get him a job at the schoolbook depository shortly after the motor route was finalized?

Why no news cameras in Dealy plaza.?]

Why was oswald given a dark sweater moments before being transferred?
When he was arrested, he was wearing a light colored shirt and jacket.
You would have seen blood if he was wearing a light shirt anf jacket.
You didn't see any blood because he was given a dark sweater.
Was he wearing a bulletproof vest under the dark sweater?
Was the shot fired by Ruby from a bullet that had a low powder load? Harmless as a bb gun, but loud in the cavernous parking garage.
Why no blood where oswald laid?
Why didn't the bulllet go thru him and hit someone behind him.?
How did he die from a gut shot in minutes?
Why was there no notes,recordings or reports about what oswald said in interrogation. He just shot the prez! why no recording or notes?

I could go on.

There's many nuggets in this gold mine from Shot Messenger,
Ruth Paine... excellent question,.