Why did WW2 happen when it happend?

The Germans and Japanese ..both wanted access to markets...which where already controlled by the British Merchantile Association..or the Crown. The Crown..is not the throne of England but the Merchants in Olde London. AKA...THE CITY. This Group goes back to midieval times and a bit before. It is they who controlled world trade ..since the fall of the Spanish Empire. THey have always had competitors ..like the French under Napolean..but they always out foxed them to get the Lions share ..either on the battlefield or the negotiating table. Their attempt was always to control markets..and trading routes to and fro these markets. They will brook no interfearence.

These are Merchants ...they are loyal to no country including England...they are loyal to thier profits..not a nation..they are a nation unto themselves.

This is the concept and understanding missing from most history books. A nation of merchants loyal to their profits not a country. It is they who ran the Opium wars in China..for profit.
This type of workings among merchants while it appears to be free market is in fact a type of Facism/Feudalism.. It is control by any means...any means....including war ..including economic collapse of markets and nations.

It is these associations through their government control..who armed and built the Japanese ..supplied them with technology allowing them to build aircraft...aircraft carriers ..submarines, battleships cruisers, tanks ..rifles et al. All this at a time when most nations had none of this. Remember..the Japanese not only had to build this equipment they also had to learn to run and operate it. The Japanese went quickly from a coastal navy to a world class blue water navy in a short time..
Where did the Japanese learn to build aircraft carriers...and submarines.??.even today ..few nations can afford these war machines.
THe Japanese received huge loans from the West..as did the Germans to build their industries.

The Germans recieved huge loans from Wall Street banks...and also technology input..General Electric under Owen YOung supplied alot of electrical input to rebuild German Factorys. Humble Oil supplied oil technology ..particularly to switch to the new ,at that time, leaded gasoline technologys to boost power in gasoline engines.
Numerous other Western compnays put their hands in the pies to get profits and control of markets.

This information can be found in books like

Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony Sutton.

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
National Suicide...Military Aid to the Soviet Union. Both these books also by Anthony Sutton.

Furter reading by the same author is

Wall Street and FDR..also by Anthony Sutton

And of course .."The Empire of the City " by E.C. Knuth

Governments appear to be the tool used and controlled by these merchants to achieve their control of markets. WE are talking here about Bank, Insurance companys , and manufacturers. THese are the Generals who are running these wars we so often see and debate in these rooms..not the military per se.

What you learn ..when you break out of the standard issue type thinking about all this military might...is that is is one thing to blow a hole in the side of the USS Cole...no problem..

It is quite another thing to attempt to cut off a trading route like the Panama Canal by building a threatening air field on the Island of Grenada which would threaten commerce coming into and out of this key Canal.
This will not be tolerated. Nor will a nut case like Manuel Norega..coming to power. The Merchants will not be threatened by any government.
I myself am curious to see if the Iranians are dumb enough to try and block the Persian Gulf routes to and from the pumping farms where they onload oil on to the tankers. You see..it is one thing to stop the military ..it is another thing entirely to threaten a Insured cargo..or a Bank loan on a ship and cargo....which are destined for some industry to keep up its profit margin. Got the picture ..folks?? All this military might and patriotism is not what it appears to be. I can assure you they did not invade Grenada to save some medical students at some training hospital...that was merely window dressing. What a stupid bunch of people some Americans are.

THe Japanese turned on their handlers...and reniged on the loans..as did the Germans..The Italians made the mistake of joining them.
The merchants associations made a mistake in thier assessment of these countrys...bad investment. They got thier coalition together to function as the reposession man..and repossess these nations and rebuild them in their image...for their profits.
Notice ..none of these merchants were at the War Crimes trials. YOu did not see General Electric or Humble oil or certain banks there at these war crimes trials. But they had their hands in it ..definitely.

Today this same scenerio is being repeated in Communist China..because the profit potential is there for a huge market share. REmember ..theses merchants are not loyal to a nation..but to thier profits. This is not a concept you will be taught in most schools.
So who or what is the repo man for Communist China...think this through carefully. Remember ..we are currently repositioning our forces to put more of them in the Pacific theater of operations.


Thanks,
Orangetom

Historically from George Washington..to about 1898/1899 The United States operated under the Monroe Doctrine. THe Monroe Doctrine was a more formal continuation of George Washingtons Farewell Address and his warnings about associations or as I recall what he refered to in his address as conclaves. Trade with everyone treatys with no one.
The Monroe Doctrine further clarified this by stating that the US would stay in the western hemisphere and the Eastern Hemisphere nations would stay out..except those who were already here.
By 1989/1899 the United States seems to have secretly given up the Monroe Doctrine without the knowlege of the American people and without the knowlege of most of the Congress. With the Spanish American War we found ourselves quickly in the Phillipines and also shortly in China taking on the Boxers for the Merchantile Association..along with the GErmans , Russians, English ..and others..all for a piece of this pie. We seem to have gotten access to Shanghai for our aid in this repossession struggle. The Monroe Doctrine faded into oblivion.
Since this time and the building of our Great White Fleet...America seems to have become a bit player on this stage..providing muscle ..when needed to protect the investments of these merchants. The French had this position originally but lost out due to their tremendous losses in WW1 when we came in and took over the job.
The proof of this is that when the wars are over...the victors do not necessarily get the bulk of the spoils..those who take the bulk of the risk and provide the bulk of the manpower and equipment. Different arrangemets are made at the peace table. Obviously. YOU know the old ancient bit about the "victors get the spoils". You have nut cases like George Patton or Douglas McAurthur who think they are fighting a real war..and that they are the Chief players. They are not. Obviously Norman Schwartzcoff was not either...and he had the good sense to know it.
Only Americans with their slanted version of public education can dumb us down enought to not know about this pattern repeated over and over at the cost of our finest blood.

To the Victors go the spoils....this means we as Americans are not the victors..in these struggles...we are merely bit players.

All this stuff about military machines and tactics..technology is very intresting ..but it is not the real struggle..not for us as Americans nor the Russians..they too are part of the controlled group. Nikita Khruschev learned this lesson.

Something for some of you to remember when posting so ferverently in these weapons forums...about pumping iron or who is the biggest or baddest.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Thanks for some great posts on this thread.


No doubt their MP44 was groundbreaking in that day ..the mother of current model assault rifles...but I wonder about its overengineering too. By the way ..some of these MP44 early assault rifles are turning up in Iraq along with ammunition for them. Amazing to me.!!! I suppose many of these will find their way into museums too.
It made me wonder about so many of their tools or weapons on the German side. By this I mean not following the KISS Principle.

Wilhelm Diest noted that German officers reported their weapons were built to last 25 years. This is fine in peace time since so many will be around for upgrading etc through out the war [In 1944 750 Pz-1 hulls were still available for ammo carrier roles] . But you can't build a mass production army based on such complicated weapons designs.

German scientists had concluded that if they built the same weapons to 90% of specs, the same industry/labor pool could pump out 3.3 times as many . When Germans redesigned their weapons for mass production thats what happened. Panzer III tanks that in 1940 took 4000 manhours to build took only 2000 manhours in 1943. In addition the approach to weapons production was wastefull with most of the steel allocated being wasted. With emphasis on economy etc this wastage was truncated and 4 times as many weapons could be manufatured for the same steel allocation.

Richard Overy reports that in the early years only 10,000 tons of weapons were produced for every 100,000 tons allocated, while this leaped to 40,000 tons out of every 100,000 after Speer had had his way with the industry....had the Germans made the transition to mass production at the same time as their opponents [mid to late 1930s], they could have doubled the out put of planes and tanks when the war started....the list goes on and on.

Good point about thier weapons production. I recall reading somewhere in some history texts about aircraft production and the numbers rising substantially compared to the early days of the Nazi Empire. They seemed to have streamlined their production methods significantly somewhere betweent the early days and say 1943/44. In the end it seemed to be energy resources which became so much of the crunch ..both in industry and on the front.
You know ..psteel..I also read a book about the U boat fleets. It became obvious when looking at the numbers of boats built and those they could at any time get ready for sea. It seems that for all the U boats built they could only get about 25 max ready for sea at any one time. All the damgae done to their enemys was by no more than 25 or less at any one time. Amazing to me.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

While I agree the influence of commerce is extremely significant in the course of world events, you must understand this is not the only force at work. Your example of Grenada was a fairly good example. (Though a large number of countries WILL go to war over the well being of a few hundred of thier citizens, Invading an entire country to rescue one university is well...)

Perhaps a more accurate assesment there would be the conflicting economic policies in play, and the value of Grenada as a small fight to prove a really big point. Putting this back into the threadd topic, one has to wonder if Japan would've slowed down in it's impirialistic policies had they been rebuked in Korea. (Instead of waiting untill they'd gone into China, then just providing support for thier enemies)

Originally posted by orangetom1999
The Germans and Japanese ..both wanted access to markets...which where already controlled by the British Merchantile Association..or the Crown. The Crown..is not the throne of England but the Merchants in Olde London. AKA...THE CITY. This Group goes back to midieval times and a bit before. It is they who controlled world trade ..since the fall of the Spanish Empire. THey have always had competitors ..like the French under Napolean..but they always out foxed them to get the Lions share ..either on the battlefield or the negotiating table. Their attempt was always to control markets..and trading routes to and fro these markets. They will brook no interfearence.
These are Merchants ...they are loyal to no country including England...they are loyal to thier profits..not a nation..they are a nation unto themselves.

(Loud smack as I slap my brow)
NO! Do some basic research first. The merchant houses? Half of them went up in flames during the Blitz and the remaining ones have halls that are being used to host graduation ceremonies, seminars and anything they can hire out to, because their economic power has been eroded away. Don't be silly.
World War Two was started by that deluded and very evil little twit Adolph Hitler, whose economic policies very nearly broke the German Economy, whose social policies were based on ideas that were at best nonsensical and whose cultural policies were fixated by blond people standing in heroic poses wearing very little. Why did he come to power? He had a large chunk of popular support plus the idiots in charge of Germany thought that they could control him. They were very (and in some cases terminally) wrong.

First Travellar,

The Japanese merchant association was called Zaibatsu...the merchant class some of them going back aways in familys involved in the westernization of Japan. in the 1800s. They took on a doctrine called Asia for the Asiatics. This was the doctrine that Asia belonged to the oriental...not the white man. Japan was going to lead the orientals to their natural greatness...with Japan as the industrial head of this empire.
In its buisness form this doctine operated under the guise of the "Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere. This was the Japanese buisness association ..at least its public face. When this buisness operation invaded China and other Asian countrysto get the natural rescorces..they found out one thing...Chang Kai-Chek worked for the Crown/London. THey expected Chang to follow them. Japan found hereself bogged down in a war in China they couldnt possibly win. When the war was concluded the Zaibatsu was quickly broken up...or absorbed by western influences.
ONe of the companys still in buisness under this olde system ..is Mistubishi...the makers of cars and trucks ..was the maker of the Japanese Zero fighter plane and the Betty bombers.
I will remind some of you that Mazda is Ford...Mistubishi is a Chrysler product. I do not know who actually owns or gets the bulk of the profits from Hundai which is Korean..but no doubt the bulk of them are not Korean.
I have always wondered about Cannon..and the Sieko watch company. These are all companys put in place by the generals really running the wars...paid for in our finest blood. Something for many of you to remember when waving the flag for the next war...soon to come.

The British Merchant association operated under the name of the "Crown or the City". It was not allowed to be refered to publically by the Houses of Lords or Commons. This was frowned heavily upon..they were a independent soverign nation within London..much the same as the Vatican in Rome. The doctrine under which they operated was called. ..."Anglo Saxon superiority and rule of the World." This is the only surviving doctrine of world power ..today though it is coming under competition again.
The other doctrines or dogmas fallen by the wayside are....

Pan Americanism...under the Monroe Doctrine
Pan Germanism..under the Kaiser and Adolph Hitler
Pan Slavism.....Mother Russia
Pan Asia or Asia for the Asiatics......Died out with the end of WW2

All these have fallen to the Crown...and its maneuverings..
This is covered well in a small book titled

"The Empire of the City "

By E.C. Knuth ..

E.C. Knuth goes on to add to his book with the advent of the Brenton Woods agreement as the pre cursor to the agreement which established the United Nations..which seems wont to gaurantee more conflict provided it remains orderly.
An explanation of the workings of the "City " are also found in this short but informative book.

Now ..what Darkmind has posted about this "City " and its workings being changed since WW2 is true...they have dispersed thier operations to new areas...especially in the electronic age. They have found much of the olde City wanting. Remember what I have posted..these people are loyal to their profits ..not a country. This is a very difficult concept for most of us to grasp.
This is quite obvious when you find out that Pepsi Cola and company were operating behind the iron curtain countrys before most of the iron curtain fell. Rember the commercial of Mikhail Gorbachov for Pepsi.or more appropriately Pizza Hut ..a company owned by Pepsi Cola. How long has Pepsi been operating in Russia? Notice you never hear this on the evening news..and information networks..even those "looking out for you." If you want to find out something very intresting ..find out how long Pepsi has been operating in Vietnam. Why has Pepsi been one fo the few companys operating behind iron curatin countrys long before others are allowed. This is a strange set up. Or is it???
By the way ..Coca Cola ..declined this offer...and left the field to Pepsi..some of you might want to find out the reasons for this ..very intresting unto itself.

I ,myself, dont happen to think that the communist Chinese have stolen any American Nuclear secrets...I believe they were allowed to gain access to them as part of buisness deals..established long ago...buisness leverage against new investments. This is the price paid for new and continuing buisness investments. You dont have to buy into that one ..but when you look at the world through a buisness prizim ..it paints a different picture from what one reads in the history books.

When you look at the nations surrounding Iran...you learn of the US and other Foreign Nations investing in oil and natural gas in countrys like Kazhastan, Usbekistan,Turkmanistan, Afganistan, Pakistan....what you learn is that we literally...have Iran surrounded..buisness wise. Think about what this means??? Strategically economically and politically.
Then think about what the future holds!!

Something for many of you to think about before the real shooting starts.

Thanks,
Orangetom

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