A Titanic Conspiracy?

the ship itself, not the movie.

it's been rumored for years that the Olympic, the Titanic's nearly identical older sister, was switched with the Titanic in a bid to collect insurance money. on the surface that seems absurd, but it isn't outside of the realm of possibility. the Olympic was viewed as something of a lemon; it was involved in a collision with a warship and had been sent back to drydock numerous times for repair. the White Star Line was relying on income from the Olympic to pay for the building of the Titanic and the youngest sister the Gigantic (later renamed the Brittanic), so when the numbers came in lower than expected, White Star had a problem. so, a plan was concocted to switch the Olympic and the Titanic, sink the Olympic near enough to another ship to get the passengers off the ship and collect the insurance money.

The Olympic and the Titanic looked very nearly the same. in fact, the White Star Line used pictures of the Olympic in all of its promotional materials for the Titanic. (there were internal differences, but I'll get to that later.) slap on a new brass nameplate, and you've got another ship.

now onto the sinking. why would White Star intentionally kill so many people? obviously, they wouldn't. that's not good for business. someone fouled up and landed up sinking the ship too far away from nearby ships. J. Bruce Ismay (the president of White Star) ordered Captain Smith to go full-speed ahead, despite both of them being fully aware of an iceberg field straight ahead. now, it could be said that Ismay was trying to reach New York quicker to make Titanic seem faster, but that wasn't likely to change the perception of White Star ships. the Cunard line was the holder of the fastest ships on the North Atlantic at that time, and White Star based its marketing on luxury, not speed. they also knew about the lack of lifeboats, but in 1912, that wasn't seen as a problem. lifeboats were just there to ferry passengers from the sinking ship to a rescue ship. so everything goes horribly wrong, Captain Smith goes down with the ship along with over a thousand others and Ismay lives out the rest of his life in hiding.

but, with every good conspiracy theory, there is a catch. the internal design of the Titanic is a sticking point. there are numerous rather significant differences between the Olympic and the Titanic. the Titanic had a French style cafe, the Olympic did not. the layout of the Turkish baths on the Titanic were different than on the Olympic. the Olympic had a dorm-style third class, while the Titanic had seperate rooms that slept from 4-16 people. also, so many people would have to been involved in a switch, it's unlikely everyone would have kept silent. but, we won't ever really know. I don't think anyone has asked any Titanic survivors about the layout of the inside of the ship, and there really weren't a lot of third class passengers left to ask about third class. White Star did eventually get an insurance settlement, but that went to families of the deceased.

I'm a font of useless Titanic info, so any Titanic questions in general I can probably answer. oh, and what do I think about this? like I said, it isn't outside of the realm of possibility.

This is an excellent presentation for both nautical historians and lovers of third-rate box-office monster soppy romances.

Well done MC, good research.

how sad buisness has been, will be and become...
hopefully peoples can learn to do right versus go wrong...

great find

I find it so sad to contemplate the fate of the people in steerage...........

that would have been horriffic.

Well, if it was a conspiracy to get insurance money, it certainly backfired in a very large manner.

At what point was the Olympic disassembled/sunk, or is it still around (I doubt it)? Surely this conspiracy could be put to rest if the decks in question aboard the Olympic were different than what was supposed to be there.

Originally posted by heelstone
Well, if it was a conspiracy to get insurance money, it certainly backfired in a very large manner.

At what point was the Olympic disassembled/sunk, or is it still around (I doubt it)? Surely this conspiracy could be put to rest if the decks in question aboard the Olympic were different than what was supposed to be there.

last I heard of the Olympic, it's empty hull was sitting in a scrap yard in Eastern Europe. this was at some point in the 90s though, so it could be gone by now.

oddly enough, the Olympic was the only ship of the three to live out its full service life. it survived World War I as a hospital ship (unlike the Britannic, which hit a land mine and sunk somewhere in the Mediterranean. there are still a lot of unanswered questions as to what happened with the Britannic, too.), and was making runs across the North Atlantic at least until the 1930s. (I can't remember the actual dates off the top of my head.)

Bruce Ismay (the president of White Star) ordered Captain Smith to go full-speed ahead, despite both of them being fully aware of an iceberg field straight ahead. now, it could be said that Ismay was trying to reach New York quicker to make Titanic seem faster, but that wasn't likely to change the perception of White Star ships. the Cunard line was the holder of the fastest ships on the North Atlantic at that time, and White Star based its marketing on luxury, not speed.

Not really inconceivable... The Titanic was more than just the maiden voyage of a large ship. It was intended to revolutionize the industry in EVERY way...including speed. The iceberg risk was considered minimal due to the Titanic's mammoth size... It was an underestimation of nature, and ill-planning and cost-cutting, that led to the tragedy...and White Star paid dearly for it....

To me the real downfall of this theory is that having one of your ships sink would be a real turnoff to people contemplating buying a very expensive ticket. That, I think would have been far more costly to White Star than an underperforming Olympic.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Not really inconceivable... The Titanic was more than just the maiden voyage of a large ship. It was intended to revolutionize the industry in EVERY way...including speed.

not quite. the Titanic was renowned for it's onboard conveniences, not speed. the Cunard Line's ship Lusitania held the North Atlantic speed record from 1907 until its demise in 1914, and then it passed to its sister ship the Mauritania. the Mauritania held it until 1922. the Titanic was too big and not powerful enough to make the fastest trip across the North Atlantic, and White Star knew it.

Originally posted by copcorn
To me the real downfall of this theory is that having one of your ships sink would be a real turnoff to people contemplating buying a very expensive ticket. That, I think would have been far more costly to White Star than an underperforming Olympic.

I have no real answer for that. although the majority of these ships' income was from third class passengers, I doubt they would be any more likely to sail on a line with a lousy reputation than first or second class passengers.
as a sidenote, the White Star Line survived until 1934, when it merged with the Cunard Line. that could be partially attributed to the Titanic disaster, but it probably had a lot more to do with the Great Depression.

I have a friend that is close to being an expert on this topic and there is also debate about radio operators and weather reports and the captain absent from the bridge and on and on...

Originally posted by THENEO
I have a friend that is close to being an expert on this topic and there is also debate about radio operators and weather reports and the captain absent from the bridge and on and on...

indeed there is. I left chunks of the conspiracy theory out for length purposes. I could write a long essay about it, but no one would read that far

Couldent any tests be done now on the wreckage to find out if any of this could be true.

Originally posted by Fitzpatrick
Couldent any tests be done now on the wreckage to find out if any of this could be true.

possibly, but there are two big hurdles in the way of that. the wreckage of the Titanic is disentegrating; it's estimated that the entire thing will collapse completely in the next 10 years or so. the years in salt water haven't been good for the ship.
funding is also difficult to find, especially to investigate a theory that is pretty much shunned by the mainstream scientific community.

Not to seriously pour water on your parade - but James Cameron invested a lot of money in getting the footage he did as research - and was used in the film. I think some one who know maritime engineering and the ships layout would have commented long before on this ?. Also Discovery Channel and Woods Hole have also spent significant time researching the causes of the disaster - and the current theory is actually sub standard steel used in the rivets and plating.

Given the project management required to build a huge capital investment like Titanic - rigging a ship to sink would be a bit of a major thing to do. Lets face it the ship was built in Belfast - and construction I understand supervised from Liverpool. Haarland had a huge reputation at stake in building this ship - and suffered after its sinking. Im no marine engineer - ask my dad hes the one who built ships - but to fake a ships demise - sorry for the pun just doesnt hold water. I would also add that a visit to a certain bar in Belfast - where a huge ammount of recovered materials are on display - mention of such a slur on the ship building skills and ethics of the people involved might be met with a sure and direct response.

Why not ? - the ships hull is still down there - and her sister was available till the early '90s to examine - also pictures and manifests accound for her departure at a time her sister ship was also accounted for.

It is howver intersting that the conspiracy theory behind her sinking grew in popularity prior to the release of a film that although successful was hugely inaccurate in its portrayal of a liner of its class - and subsequently went on to win Oscars.

FWIW White Star Line actually existed into the 1970s - albeit under another flag - and as a tanker fleet.

There was a special on the History Channel about the switching of the ships. Personaly I do not believe that they were switched.

dang,mc. You know alot about the Titanic.I also enjoy reading about the Titanic. I have a book on it called:" The Discovery of the Titanic" by Dr. Robert D. Ballard. I suggest you pick up that book.Its a very good read.

[Edited on 10-19-2003 by theshadowknows]

A hull plate was retrieved from the Titantic some years ago. Inspection indicated that the plate contained high percentages of manganse which makes the steel brittle. Also the plates were riveted rather than welded. When the ship brushed the ice berg, the theory was that the plates shattered and the rivets popped because of the brittleness. Considering the strength of the impact, the plates should have just buckled rather than popping. The real reason the Titanic went down was that they used Birmingham steel rather than Krupp Stahl.

New evidence that it was in fact a conspiracy...

The fun kind of evidence

The best page in the universe

To those of you who doubt this conspiracy theory....
there is a surprising amount of evidence to support the theory that the 2 ships were indeed switched. Firstly the Titanic and the Olympic had 2 very different designs of boilers. According to the footage shot at the wreckage of the ship, the one that sank had the old style boiler (the olympic's boiler)

Also there is a very famous photo of the 'Titanic' before it sailed it's maiden voyage. It has a patch of paint that is a slightly different colour to the rest of the ship, in the exact location where the olympic collided with the HMS Hawk (which was equiped with an underwatewer Ram!)
That patch of paint was also the exact same shape and size as the resulting collision. (interesting no?)

I also find it quite strange that the design of the Titanic was altered to make it look more like the Olympic, only a few months after the collision with the HMS Hawk.

The Problem was that when the Olympic collided with the Hawk, the main drive shaft of the ship was damaged. This shaft was never meant to be replaced and was beyond repair. Because the HMS Hawk was a military ship, the insurance policy for the olympic was void. No other insurance company would insure the Olympic because it was no longer 'sea worthy'.
The damage to the drive shaft meant that although the main drive propeller would still run, the bearings were damaged and there was no way of knowing how long it would run for.
....many of the survivors of the disaster did report the ship vibrating quite violently during the journey. (no, I am not making this up!)



To tell you everything I know about this theory would take too long, suffice it to say that at one point I was addicted to the idea and dug up a lot of evidence. Most of that evidence would seem to indicate to me that the ships were indeed switched. If you want to find some more info yourself, that's what google is for!