Project Serpo Issues: Proven Factual Problems

Originally posted by Byrd
A brief glimpse at the rest of their cosmology is found in that same section of Anonymous' writings. According to that same message text, the little point that "nearest planet, Otto" is 88 million miles away.

Let's do the math (it's okay... it's easy.)
sun * Eben * sun 2
* OTTO Eben


This means that the planet "OTTO" is orbiting about 8 million miles from its sun. "Serpo" is 93 million miles or so from its sun, so if you subtract 88 million miles away from it, "Otto" is orbiting around one or the other suns, at a distance of 4-8 million miles from that sun.

Those of you who are saying "Whoa! Planet of Cosmic Vaporization" win the prize. Yes, that's too close to a sun to exist.

Most of us don't have the numbers for our own solar system, so a bit of goodling shows that our innermost planet to the sun, Mercury, is 68 million miles from the sun.

"Otto" is apparently orbiting near the solar corona, where temperatures are hot enough to vaporize rock.

Crispy planet, anyone? And what are they mining on a vaporized planet, anyway? Hot air? if so, Anonymous must have bought up all the mines.

We quickly finish this exercise with another bit from that same post: the "nearest inhabited planet, SILUS" is 434 million miles away."

Let's put this in terms of our own solar system: Silus is as far away from "SERPO" as the Earth is from Jupiter.

BUT WAIT-- There's a huge star (Serpo Sun 2) orbiting at just outside the orbit of Mars! So... where IS this other sun that SILUS orbits? It can't be Star2, or Silus would crash into Sepro!
www.factmonster.com...

Crowded little section of the galaxy, isn't it? In "Lost In Space" realities, you can ignore physics and place them wherever you like. Back here in Reality, it's nothing but Stupid Science.

Yes, he tries to do the "physics don't work the same in this section of space. I'll get to that one in a later post, where I start talking about the "scientists", who apparently were chosen for their boyish good looks and the way they filled out uniforms rather than for any knowledge of science.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by Byrd]

If I'm running around a telephone pole that's 10 feet away, and my brother is running around the same telephone pole and he's 9 feet away from me? And we are in the exact same direction, in relation to the pole, at all times. Is he 1 foot away from the pole? Maybe, but he could also be, 19 feet away from the pole.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by trudginup]

QUOTE : " If I'm running around a telephone pole that's 10 feet away, and my brother is running around the same telephone pole and he's 9 feet away from me? Is he 1 foot away from the pole? Nope, he's 19 feet away from the pole.
"

ACTUALLY - more data required , if we are being pedantic -

he could be ANY distance - from 1 to 19 feet - EVEN exactly 10 feet too - it depends on relative velocity

but the serpo clowns were unable to calculate this either

pedantic rant / ogff

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
QUOTE : " If I'm running around a telephone pole that's 10 feet away, and my brother is running around the same telephone pole and he's 9 feet away from me? Is he 1 foot away from the pole? Nope, he's 19 feet away from the pole.
"

ACTUALLY - more data required , if we are being pedantic -

it would be essential to know what type of tether (chain, rope etc) connects you to the pole and where are you attached (foot, neck) to said tether.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
QUOTE : " If I'm running around a telephone pole that's 10 feet away, and my brother is running around the same telephone pole and he's 9 feet away from me? Is he 1 foot away from the pole? Nope, he's 19 feet away from the pole.
"

ACTUALLY - more data required , if we are being pedantic -

he could be ANY distance - from 1 to 19 feet - EVEN exactly 10 feet too - it depends on relative velocity

but the serpo clowns were unable to calculate this either

pedantic rant / ogff

Thanx, I fixed it.

Originally posted by trudginup
If I'm running around a telephone pole that's 10 feet away, and my brother is running around the same telephone pole and he's 9 feet away from me? And we are in the exact same direction, in relation to the pole, at all times. Is he 1 foot away from the pole? Maybe, but he could also be, 19 feet away from the pole.

Nope.

Go back and read the Serpo lies again.

There are two telephone poles. You're standing at a distance of 10 feet from telephone pole A, and at a distance of 10.1 feet from telephone pole B. Your brother is standing nine feet away from you, either around Pole A or Pole B.

He can, indeed, be nineteen feet away from Pole A, which will place him exactly one foot from Pole B.


(no, an extreme eliptical (weird and wonky) orbit isn't possible because of the other bodies in the system.)

a) In one of the Q.A's on the Serpo page, somebody picked up what I noticed - if the planet's axis is tilted, doesn't it cause weather changes justl like we have on earth? The answer from anon was less than satisfactory

b) I expect the hoaxer to be of Slavic origin. The word "Serpo" can be found in the Esperanto language and is translated as "Sickle". It's close to "srp" or "serp" found in _many_ slavic languages where besides the sickle it also means "crescent moon". I have a feeling that the anonymous author used his poetic license to describe a "moon" in his hoax, referred to as Serpo. "Eben" is close to a Slavic expletive which is translated to a word that sounds similar to "freaking".

(NOTE: this post was accidentally edited by Byrd (see below). Apologies to Trudgingup. It was not meant as a censor to the message.)

------------

11) Serpo moved around one sun only.

That would mean Serpo was in between both suns

The other sun was within the two orbits.

What 2 orbits? The only way this makes sense, is if one sun was orbiting around the other, while their planet was orbiting around that sun.

But Otto pretty much wouldn't be possible in this scenario, unless they meant Otto was 88 million miles from the other sun, when they listed it's distance. Even still, that puts Otto at some point 7 million miles from their planet. Wouldn't this effect gravitational pull?

As I said before, there are hundreds of pages of calculations in the debriefing explaining all of this.

Why would Anonomous, say this? It's not like we've seen this debriefing. It doesn't make sense, when someone is asking a question about it. He is supposedly giving out this info freely, but acts like he doesn't have time to answer, such stupud questions.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by Byrd]

From www.serpo.org

Statistics on the Eben planet was collected by our team. Here is the pertinent data for your UFO thread list:

Diameter: 7,218 miles
Mass: 5.06 x 1024
Distance from Sun #1: 96.5 million miles
Sun #2: 91.4 million miles
Moons: 2
Surface gravity: 9.60m/s2
Rotation Periods: 43 hours
Orbit: 865 days
Tilt: 43 degrees
Temperature: Min: 43° / Max: 126°
Distance from Earth: 38.43 light years
Planet named by Team: SERPO
Nearest planet to SERPO: Named: OTTO
Distance:
88 million miles (colonized by Ebens with research base, but no natural inhabitants on planet)
Number of planets in Eben Solar System: Six
Nearest inhabited planet to SERPO:

Named: SILUS (SILUS is made up of creatures of various types, but no intelligent life forms. Ebens use the planet to mine minerals.)
Distance: 434 million miles

Byrd, is correct. What I can't figure out is why he just didn't say the distances are completely erroneous. Why try to understand or account for false data. Otto's placement is irrevelant when true distances are used. It is accepted fact in the field of Astronomy that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are 350 billion miles apart. Thats BILLIONS. Something like 100 times the distance of our Sun to Pluto. More than enough distance for Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 to have their own solar systems independent of one another.

Here is some data from www.ufoconspiracy.com...

The two stars, Zeta 1 and Zeta 2, are located in the southern constellation of Reticulum (the net) and are thus never visible to most of the northern hemisphere. Both are classed as old disk population II stars whose age is between six to eight billion years. There is every indication that both had a common origin and are part of a relatively near-by old moving group (or loose cluster) of stars which was first defined in 1958 and is known as the Zeta Hercules group. Zeta 1 Reticuli is separated from Zeta 2 Reticuli by at least 367 billion miles or about 100 times the Sun-Pluto distance. They may be even farther apart but, as just mentioned above, the available observations suggest they are moving through space together and are therefore physically associated. They probably require at least a 100,000 years to orbit around their common center of gravity.

This is whipping a dead horse of a fact.


[edit on 2/13/2006 by Jeddyhi]

[edit on 2/13/2006 by Jeddyhi]

I edited your message accidentally. I meant to hit 'reply' and instead got distracted and hit 'edit' and ended up editing your message rather than replying to it. Sorry. It was a REALLY brain-dead mistake on my part, but I didn't mean anything hostile by it.

Originally posted by trudginup

11) Serpo moved around one sun only.

That would mean Serpo was in between both suns

The other sun was within the two orbits.

What 2 orbits? The only way this makes sense, is if one sun was orbiting around the other, while their planet was orbiting around that sun.

Exactly. That's the scenario they want to put up. Except that the suns, being similar in mass actually orbit around a midpoint in the distance between them... which is the location of the imaginary planet, Serpo.

But Otto pretty much wouldn't be possible in this scenario, unless they meant Otto was 88 million miles from the other sun, when they listed it's distance.

Exactly. However, they state that Otto is an impossible 88 million miles from Serpo... not from a sun. And that it's in the same solar system as Serpo.

Even still, that puts Otto at some point 7 million miles from their planet. Wouldn't this effect gravitational pull?

Exactly.

Remember, we're dealing with a hoax; a lie. The hoaxer is too stupid to work out the cosmology, which is why we can catch him with simple math.

As I said before, there are hundreds of pages of calculations in the debriefing explaining all of this.

Why would Anonomous, say this?

He's trying to soothe our skepticism so that nobody will check his cosmology and ask sticky questions.

It's not like we've seen this debriefing.

Nor will we ever.

It doesn't make sense, when someone is asking a question about it. He is supposedly giving out this info freely, but acts like he doesn't have time to answer, such stupud questions.

That's because nasty skeptics (like me) with college courses and degrees, stepped in and punched holes into his planetary orbits. He now knows that he can't just toss any old equation at us because several in his audience actually know the math.

And it's math that niether he nor the Clown Committee (the other "anonymous-es") can do. While these questions could be shut up by a hoaxer who was a mathemetician and could do partial differential equations and solve various orbital mechanics problems, the folks who can do THAT are too busy doing research and teaching rather than trying to hoax something that their own colleagues would catch them at.

So he and the other Clowns are never going to show any data/pictures because they can't afford to. By now, their audience is suspicious and growing even more suspicious. Any material they put out now is going to be raked over.

Their best bet will be to lie low. The question is whether they'll try again with this hoax in a year or so when the uproar has died down or whether their next effort will be a new but similar hoax.

[edit on 13-2-2006 by Byrd]

Delete: Double POST



[edit on 14-2-2006 by trudginup]

To Byrd: I thought I wasn't allowed to quote or something, until I looked at the title. No big deal. And thanx for going out of your way to apologize.
EDIT: I had to take the my Font Size bookends off.


I found this website about Star Wars.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not sure how legit the site is. The Answer came from a 'Star Wars' question, after all. But, very interesting, none the less.

"A harsh desert world orbiting the twin suns Tatoo I and Tatoo II..." - StarWars.com description

Besides being the childhood home of Luke Skywalker and later haunt of crime lord Jabba the Hutt, the desert planet of Tatooine is renowned for something else - its unique twin suns. At any point of the day, anyone looking up at the Tatooine sky would see not one, but two large suns. It's no wonder the planet is so scorchingly dry and arid. But while the idea of such a world might seem like far-fetched fantasy, Tatooine, as a planetary concept, is really not all that incredible.

"I still remember the first time I saw the original Star Wars, and Luke is out there watching the double sunset," muses astronomer Ivan Semeniuk. "That's one of my favourite scenes. And it's one thing that's scientifically plausible."

The reason? There are lots of double stars. "In fact, two thirds of all the stars we see at night are in double or multiple systems, " Semeniuk points out. So it seems the more pertinent question is: can a planet orbit two stars at the same time? According to Semeniuk, absolutely.

"If you have two stars, you can have a stable planet that orbits them both as long as the planet is more than four times farther from the suns themselves as the two suns are from each other," he explains. "The planet has to be far enough away so that it's orbiting the two as if they were one."

We know this is not the case, because anonymous states that it's only orbiting one.

There are situations where there are two stars that are fairly wide apart and a planet orbits only one of them. Recently astronomer Geoff Marcy of the University of California at Berkely discovered that the star 16 Cygni B has such a planet orbiting it, while its companion star 16 Cygni A doesn't. "That situation works as long as the distance between the planet and the star is less than a quarter of the distance between the two stars," says Semeniuk

We know this is not the case, because anonymous gave us the distances.
They were: each 90+ million miles from serpo. The max distance between the 2 suns are 180+ million. That's only half, not a quarter. So anonymous backed himself into a corner with that.

When you realize that the distance between Zeta1 and Zeta 2 is 367 Billion miles, Then the distance between Serpo and its Sun is considerably smaller than 1/4.

Can I get everyone to agree that Zeta 1 and 2 are 367 Billion miles apart?
Why are we flogging this to death. The next nearest planet to Serpo is one called Otto. Its 88 million miles from Serpo.

93 million miles ( distance Serpo is from star ) plus 88 million miles ( distance Otto is from Serpo ) puts Otto at about 181 million miles from it's star. I take it that Otto would be further out, not in, since the claim that an eben outpost is there. No natural inhabitants. To cold I would guess.

The only erroneous info is the claim that Serpo is only 91 million miles from from the companion star. That figure would have to be in the hundreds of BILLIONS.

[edit on 2/14/2006 by Jeddyhi]

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
When you realize that the distance between Zeta1 and Zeta 2 is 367 Billion miles, Then the distance between Serpo and its Sun is considerably smaller than 1/4.

Can I get everyone to agree that Zeta 1 and 2 are 367 Billion miles apart?
Why are we flogging this to death. The next nearest planet to Serpo is one called Otto. Its 88 million miles from Serpo.

93 million miles ( distance Serpo is from star ) plus 88 million miles ( distance Otto is from Serpo ) puts Otto at about 181 million miles from it's star. I take it that Otto would be further out, not in, since the claim that an eben outpost is there. No natural inhabitants. To cold I would guess.

The only erroneous info is the claim that Serpo is only 91 million miles from from the companion star. That figure would have to be in the hundreds of BILLIONS.

[edit on 2/14/2006 by Jeddyhi]

If that's erroneous, that makes the whole thing worthless. There's no way to sift through, when you have errors all over the place.

I was taking part of it and disproving it because that's the simplest way.

is what is stated on the Serpo: Home and Introduction main page just below the yellow index/updates boxes.

The purpose of this site

This site is not authored by anyone with direct access to confidential information. Rather, its purpose is to present to the public information that has been released, and to examine that information in a clear, balanced and intelligent light.

The following is solely my opinion, based on the above statement, taken at face value to be true. (if it is or not is anyones' guess)

This statement directly contradicts the method (secrecy/anonymity) of the release, if in fact it is a true statement and is declassified information.

Now, I realize that "certain factions" are against disclosure, and are willing to make physical threats, and swear people to secrecy to avoid life in prison or death, one would think those same factions would not have allowed the info to be"released" in the first place.

I know what you're thinking, what if the info was released without that "certain faction" knowing about it??

Well, it seems to me, (and I may be wrong) that the declassification process is most likely done by a group of high up officials from each branch of the services involved, including one or all of the following, cia, dia, fbi, nsa.
That "certain faction" surely would have been tipped off by someone in the loop before declassification occurred.

Another contradiction that comes to mind, is how it is to be presented to the public.

I don't know about any of you, but the way it has come out so far, well,.... is far from clear, balanced, or intelligent for that matter, so how could anyone "examine" it in that light???

As a matter of fact, to me, when a person is given predetermined parameters of instruction for examination, usually means to me that those instructions will lead to a predetermined conclusion.

Anyone care to offer up their opinions on any of this???

Later,.... Bill

Originally posted by Ausable_Bill

The purpose of this site

This site is not authored by anyone with direct access to confidential information. Rather, its purpose is to present to the public information that has been released, and to examine that information in a clear, balanced and intelligent light.

The following is solely my opinion, based on the above statement, taken at face value to be true. (if it is or not is anyones' guess)

This statement directly contradicts the method (secrecy/anonymity) of the release, if in fact it is a true statement and is declassified information.

Your right, this statement is a contradiction within itself. The statement said that the website purpose is to present "information that is released", but if it were truly "released" it would become public information backed up with "declassified" documents. If the info was coming from someone with access to "classified" documents that are not public domain and making it public, then it is being "leaked", not "released".

Now if the person doing this really wanted to inform the public of "classified" information that is not yet "declassified", IMHO, it would be done all at once and not the piece meal job that we are seeing.

If Serpo is a hoax, intel have shot themselves in the foot, big time. To deceive the public about so important a topic: locations of grays purportedly in Alpha Centauri, and "Ebens" in Zeta, would be unforgivable from an exopolitical perspective. Given the mix of past disinfo from men like Doty, the story would have been better leaked out by clean sources (IF true). We all recall the psy war on Bennewicz.

If gray were actually on a planet in Alpha Centauri, we'd be in a bit of a jam. They would be either trying to isolate us from our neighbors, or horn in on our surroundings in a provocative way.

Of course, if Serpo were true, old hands might want to leak the story, given that it was hot during their watch. But the thing is so easy to either see partial truth in, or discredit. We're all left hanging.

I wrote a hypothetical analysis of what the implications might be, were the story true--on a few web sites, but I'm not yet convinced, of course. The implications would be far-reaching. I posed my analysis in IF terms, of course. I have no personal knowledge of the story, other than one source's statement that Ebens are a hybrid human-alien enclave. Other than that, who knows?

A part of this was meant for "the big thread" but that was closed down before I found it. Another part is a small bit of "factual problem."

OK, this may sting a bit, but I mean no harm. How could so many members of this fine place fall so badly for Serpo in the first place? I know, there were lots of sceptics and fence-sitters, but still there were "believers" enough. I found this place from the Serpo site, and to me it was "obvious" that the whole Serpo thing was cr*p. ("Obvious" in quotes, since there was always some small possibility it could be mixed with something approaching reality.)

When I found "the big thread" my belief rose slightly over the first few pages, since so many people obviously more knowledgeable than me seemed to put some credence into the matter. But then it didn't take many more pages for me to see that everything about the Serpo site was going down in flames. I wasn't even really reassured when Mr. Ryan popped by, because some of what he said made no real sense. That leads me to my contribution to this thread:

Ryan several times defended the "Anonymous" postings by dragging in dictation as a source of faults in the reports. (If dictation is a correct word in this context - English is not my native tongue; I mean his suggestion of someone reading "Anon" stuff over the phone, and "Anon" then writing it down for mailing to Victor and Ryan.)

The problem there is twofold, to my mind. First, "Anon" is dense enough not to recognize the contextual differences between "hostel" and "hostile", between "led" and "lead", etc, as he writes the stuff down. If someone told me a story over the phone and had me write it down, I'd know by the context whether I heard "hostel" or "hostile" - if for no other reason than that one of them most likely wouldn't make grammatical sense in the particular sentence I was told.

And even if "Anon" was dense enough not to spot the difference, Ryan's argument means that "Anon" then didn't sit down and read through what he's just written down - instead, he immediately e-mails it to Victor/Ryan. When it comes to the at least semi-official leaking/disclosure/un-classification of such earth-shattering information, "Anon" blithely and blindly scribbles something and just sends it off, without giving it a second thought...

By the way, since "Anon" or whoever (as quoted above) said that Ebens and Grays were different critters, why has Ryan posted a picture of what looks to be a pretty standard Gray on his site? Where's the Serpo connection?

*edit: leading > leaking... (hey, maybe I'm "Anon" - I sure missed my spell checking...)

[edit on 18-3-2006 by ochre]