Some questions on Catholicsm

Now, I am just wondering why the Pope lives in vatican city and in Israel. Jesus lived in Israel aka Palestine, but the popes live in Vatican City, can any body tell me why?

Another question that I need answered is, why are Catholics not allowed to have children? Doesn't this go against this quote from genesis "Be fruitfull and multiply"?

The Pope lives in Rome due to the fact that when Christianity rose in prominence Rome was the "super-power" of the world. Several roman emperors converted and championed Christianity, spreading it throughout the empire. The Bishop of Rome hence became very influential and eventually became known as Papa or Pope. Something that the Eastern Orthodox churches are still jealous of today.

As for your question about children, you are very confused. Catholic doctrine forbids birth control of any form and encourages large families.

Originally posted by speight89
Now, I am just wondering why the Pope lives in vatican city and not in Israel. Jesus lived in Israel aka Palestine, but the popes live in Vatican City, can any body tell me why?

The Pope is the bishop of Rome, so is naturally based in Rome. Christianity centred originally in Jerusalem; however the city was sacked in the Jewish War in AD 68, and the church had to flee. The gentile church grew up around eastern cities such as Antioch and Alexandria. From there it spread to the West, and thus to Rome. The major bishoprics were based in the big cities. The only one in the Latin-speaking West was that in Rome. The Arabs conquered most of the East, and the East-West split in the 9th century left Rome in solitary pre-eminence in the West.

The Vatican city was created in the 19th century at the time of the Risorgimento, or Italian Unification, and legally came into existence in 1923.

Another question that I need answered is, why are Catholics not allowed to have children? Doesn't this go against this quote from genesis "Be fruitfull and multiply"?

Some confusion here, I think. Catholics do not believe in contraceptives. It is everyone else who encourages their women to take poisons to induce supposedly temporary sterility. Why Catholics think as they do is something that has never been allowed to appear on TV in my time. There will be a good reason for it, as there is for everything in RCC teaching. But I don't happen to know it.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Now, I am just wondering why the Pope lives in vatican city and in Israel. Jesus lived in Israel aka Palestine, but the popes live in Vatican City, can any body tell me why?

Another question that I need answered is, why are Catholics not allowed to have children? Doesn't this go against this quote from genesis "Be fruitfull and multiply"?

1. The Pope is not Jesus or the Messiah. The Pope has to live somewhere.

2. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry because if they could, the Catholic Church would attract a lot less perverts and pedophiles to the priesthood.

And yes, it goes against the Bible and it goes against nature!

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
2. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry because if they could, the Catholic Church would attract a lot less perverts and pedophiles to the priesthood.

And yes, it goes against the Bible and it goes against nature!

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Excitable_Boy]

i know a lot of priests, none of them are perverts and/or pedophiles, hell, one of them took a bullet for a soldier in WW2. people just don't realize that all the stories are flooding out at once, so the millions of priests on the planet all seem bad at once.

so, you're saying jesus was a sinner for not being fruitful and multiplying?

Originally posted by thejunk
The Pope lives in Rome due to the fact that when Christianity rose in prominence Rome was the "super-power" of the world. Several roman emperors converted and championed Christianity, spreading it throughout the empire. The Bishop of Rome hence became very influential and eventually became known as Papa or Pope. Something that the Eastern Orthodox churches are still jealous of today.

Matthew 23

"...but according to their deeds you should not do...

    "They love the chief places at festivals and the chief seats at the assembly, and a greeting in the streets, and to be called by men 'Rabbi.'

    "But you should not be called 'Rabbi;' for One is your Rabbi, and you are all brothers.

"And 'father' do not call yourselves on earth; for One is your Father, who is in heaven."

The way the use of "father" is banned is in connection with titles that exalt the clergy over the laity. This instruction was eventually ignored and applied to the office of bishop in general, and then, by the time of Jerome at least, to the bishops of the Patriarchal sees, and eventually in the West it was reserved for the bishop of Rome alone. 'Father' also became applied to priests since, once episkopoi (bishops) were no longer ruling individual parishes, they assumed most of the original role of bishops.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]

so, you're saying jesus was a sinner for not being fruitful and multiplying?

No....Jesus was fruitful and did multiply. Jesus wasn't a Catholic. We're talking about Catholics and Catholic priests here....

I think it's wrong and medieval for Catholic Priests to not be allowed to marry. It is not natural and goes against nature. As a result, many perverts and pedophiles join the priesthood in hopes of hiding their true natures.

If Catholic priests were allowed to marry, the Catholic priesthood would attract a much higher percentage of normal men.

As far as I know the reason for celibacy for the priesthood was done to stop abuses that were occurring in the dark ages. At the time the rule was implimented the upper echelon of the catholic priesthood was being dominated by rich italian families and the papalcy and important positions such as being cardinals and bishops were being handed down via nepotism. Another (as far as I know thing) fact is that the papalcy would be bought and sold during this era. Thus a council was formed to address such abuses and the results were to require priest to be unmarried. As a side note, I was taught in a Roman Catholic school that not all catholic priest must be unmarried. There is an ethopian rite of the catholic church were male priest may be married. I believe that there are four rites in the catholic church with one of them being the Roman Catholic Rite.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

so, you're saying jesus was a sinner for not being fruitful and multiplying?

No....Jesus was fruitful and did multiply.

Look, all Torah commandments like those concerning the Sabbath can be set aside to save a life, even the life of an animal. Missionary work saves people's eternal lives, even more important than their physical lives, that is why Yeshua could be a celibate unmarried man without sinning, and Paul could recommend that condition for those doing missionary work, wives and children make it hard to travel. However, when it came to the clergy of an established congregation, we see in the Pastoral Letters that, they are required to be married, because they will be primarily involved in stationary pastoral work.

It was a mistake to require celibacy of the clergy in defiance of this. It is true that part of the justification for doing so was to stop absuses inherent in the Medieval system, but those abuses had come about because church government had centralized beyond the parish level, the church had become wedded to the state, and they had discontinued the primitive Christian tradition of allowing the laity to elect their own local clergy (ex. Augustine was elected this way).




[edit on 30-1-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]

that is why Yeshua could be a celibate unmarried man without sinning

Who is Yeshua?

And....I have no children. I am married and have step children, but none of my own. Does this make me a sinner? No, it doesn't. This whole discussion about being fruitful and multiplying is ridiculous. What does it have to do with anything?

When is everyone going to figure out that God just wants us to enjoy the life we have been given to the best of our abilities?

He doesn't want us going around thinking: "Okay, now let's see, I have to be fruitful and...I must multiply. I don't want to sin.....I don't want to go to hell. I must be a good Christian and try to convert others. I must spread the word that Jesus is the messiah and tell people that they must accept Him as such in order to be saved. I want to be saved. Jesus is my messiah. I must do good works. I must give 10% of my money to the church. I must pray. I must confess my sins. I should feel guilty if I have impure thoughts.." etc. etc. etc......

and BTW....God loves everyone. He loves blacks, whites, reds, greens, purples, blues, yellows, etc. He loves gays and he loves heterosexuals. He loves sinners and he loves the purest of the pure. He loves us all my friends!

Originally posted by speight89
Now, I am just wondering why the Pope lives in vatican city and in Israel. Jesus lived in Israel aka Palestine, but the popes live in Vatican City, can any body tell me why?

The pope isn't jesus. Also, the rome is the residency of the offices of the Catholic Church because of history.

why are Catholics not allowed to have children?

Catholics are allowed to have children. Generally and stereotypically, catholics are presented as having excessively large families.

If you mean why don't preists have children, well, of course, at some points the office of the papacy has been darned well inherited I beleive. But in general the RCC is saying that if a person wants to be a preist, then they have to be entirely and utterly devoted to religion, not family, not nation, not anythign else but serving god.

However, exceptions are made for preists who already have families, obviously.

Originally posted by roger_pearse
Catholics do not believe in contraceptives.

Onanism. Google up Onanism. It comes from the OT.
This is a good chunk of why the Catholic Church doesn't
allow artifical birth control. Just about ALL Christian
churches didn't allow artificial birth control right up
until the start of the 1900's.

Why Catholics think as they do is something that
has never been allowed to appear on TV in my time.

Both cable and satelite carry EWTN - the 'Catholic Network'.
Everything is explained on the station and they have some
good programming that is easy to follow.
EWTN also has a web site. Also, the Catechism of the Catholic
Church explains all beliefs - which come from Scripture and
Sacred Tradition. These are available in bookstores.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I think it's wrong and medieval for Catholic Priests to not be
allowed to marry.

There is a quote in acts - those that wish to serve the Lord
and are unmarried should remain so - because married people
are anxious about many things whereas unmarried people
can serve God without distractions. I'll look up that quote
and try to get back to you with it.

Also - no one forces Catholic priests not to get married. They
are more than welcome to get married ... but they can't stay
a priest. They have choices just as all of us do .. they CHOOSE
not to marry and become a priest.

Frankly I'm glad they aren't married. I don't want to be on
my death bed, waiting for Last Rites, only to find out that
my priest can't make it because he's at his kids soccer game
or something.

Priests have a calling to serve, not to be served.

As a result, many perverts and pedophiles join the
priesthood in hopes of hiding their true natures.

That's entirely possible. At least you didn't claim that being
celebate created pedophiles and homosexuals. It doesn't.
Anyone who says celebacy creates homosexuality and/or
pedophilia is dead wrong.

because married people
are anxious about many things whereas unmarried people
can serve God without distractions.

I don't agree...it seems altar boys are a serious distraction for many priests.

Priests have a calling to serve

I don't think many priests have a "calling." I think that is a myth is MOST circumstances.

o.p. by E.B.
I think it's wrong and medieval for Catholic Priests to not be allowed to marry. It is not natural and goes against nature. As a result, many perverts and pedophiles join the priesthood in hopes of hiding their true natures.

Your line of reasoning above is weak, as the one statement doesn't necessarily follow from the other. In fact, from a conspiracy perspective, an outside entity seeking to undermine the church's influence could easily direct "many perverts and pedophiles (to) join the priesthood in hopes" of indulging their true natures and discrediting the church in the process. Think about it. Stranger things have happened, and the timing, nature and orchestrated snowball effect of the RCC-sexual abuse scandal in the US could easily make one suspicious if he hadn't already made up his mind that

I don't agree...it seems altar boys are a serious distraction for many priests.

a statement that may point more to your own latent interests, or feeble attempts at humor, than to the actual activities of 99% of catholic priests.

I advise you, for what its worth, to be careful going around proclaiming what God wants for us. His plan for us, imo, is by nature unknowable, and you are expressing a level of hubris reserved from mere mortals such as we. You may find your words taste good, and go with your suffering like bread with wine.

Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I don't think many priests have a "calling."
I think that is a myth is MOST circumstances.

You don't think God calls people to serve Him?
Or is it just Catholics that are outside of God's
call to serve? hmmmmm?

BTW .. read any Jack Chick tracts lately?

I advise you, for what its worth, to be careful going around proclaiming what God wants for us. His plan for us, imo, is by nature unknowable, and you are expressing a level of hubris reserved from mere mortals such as we. You may find your words taste good, and go with your suffering like bread with wine.

Be careful of what? My God just wants us to be happy. Is that a terrible thing for me to proclaim? It is my belief and what I have faith in. If you disagree, that is your right. Save your intellectual jargon for someone else. I don't need you to lecture me or preach to me......save that for your family.

My suffering? What suffering? I have true serenity. Not many have it. It is an amazing thing what life is like with serenity.

I have hubris? Where does "You may find your words taste good, and go with your suffering like bread with wine" come from? Who here suffers from hubris?

You don't think God calls people to serve Him?
Or is it just Catholics that are outside of God's
call to serve? hmmmmm?

BTW .. read any Jack Chick tracts lately?

No...I don't think God calls people to serve Him, be they Catholic or otherwise. I think people CHOOSE to serve Him (and in some cases, serve themselves, i.e. Tele-Evangelists...a disgusting bunch or corrupt con artists).

Who is Jack Chick and what exactly is a "tract?"

Please understand that my comment above is motivated out of concern for, not condemnation of, you. An admonition out of concern, not an assault of condemnation. The tone my words convey sometimes takes on a character of its own, easily misunderstood over the endless reaches of cyberspace.

I speak from my own, humbled, experience. There is a two-way covenant to be observed, and bearing false witness against others, even in jest, is a breach, imo.

Isaiah 2:11-12 KJV
2:11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.

2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

Keep that in mind for me when you're prancing through the poppy fields, or whatever you do, with the love of God shining down on you, that precious, precious love.

Don't take it for granted, and watch out for landmines in the poppy fields.

Please understand that my comment above is motivated out of concern for, not condemnation of, you. An admonition out of concern, not an assault of condemnation.

Don't be concerned for me. I'm just fine. I would be concerned for yourself. You seem to have a God complex.

Keep that in mind for me when you're prancing through the poppy fields, or whatever you do, with the love of God shining down on you, that precious, precious love.

I will keep nothing in mind for you. I do not prance....not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that if you're into it.