Secret US "uber" soldiers?

Just something that's been on my mind that I thought I'd bring up with my fellow ATS mates......

During world war 2 and Hitler's brief reign, he was using his scientists to help develope higly advanced technology for it's time. With the US taking over Germany, they took alot of their scientists back with them to help develope their own technology and techniques futher.

It is known that Hitler was trying to develope his own UFO's - now, what is the possibility that the US has finally got Hitler's original plans working right and has a hidden fleet of USAF UFO's and likewise trained pilots as a back-up in the event the US is under attack (a real attack)?

Also, Hitler was trying to develoipe a "uber-soldat" or super-soldier. Not quite sure on his techniques, but I think it involved brainwashing, drugs to enhance him physically, mentally and to withstand pain. What are the chances of the US having hidden battallions of "take-no-prisoner" ultimate brainwashed soldiers ready to break through Hells door itself and take it over if neccessary?

Yeah, I know you Yanks have got the Seals, and Marines and the like but what I'm, talkin bout here is what I call "Predator Technology".

I have heard of it in the past, a suit worn by the soldier with tiny screen sown into the suit that covers the soldier from head to toe. Within these tiny screens is a pinhole camera. Now what the pinhole camera sees infront of it's lense, it sends the picture to the corresponding screen on the back of the soldiers suit. In effect, you can see through the suit except for a slight blur, or haze in front of the background.

Are you guys with me here, this technology exists, just I havn't heard of it being used yet. With the US military stretched so far around the world on mission you'd think that any normal country would worry about it's ability to defend itself with the smaller contingent that is still based at home.

I reckon the US military has a complete advanced and secret attack/defense force based around UFO sourced technology, craft, ships, soldiers that it is keeping in reserve for a worst case scenario probability?

Does anyone else know of or heard of a secret backup military of the likes described above?

KOZAK - live free or die fighting for it.

The idea of a soldier has changed quite a bit since WW2. I dont think the army want the "brainwashed" soldier, they want the one that can think and survive while achieving their objectives.

Although I do think that with the advances in body armour technology (and weapons), we will see the return of a knight style soldier. We're just not quite there yet

[edit on 28-1-2006 by merka]

Originally posted by KOZAK
I have heard of it in the past, a suit worn by the soldier with tiny screen sown into the suit that covers the soldier from head to toe. Within these tiny screens is a pinhole camera. Now what the pinhole camera sees infront of it's lense, it sends the picture to the corresponding screen on the back of the soldiers suit. In effect, you can see through the suit except for a slight blur, or haze in front of the background.

Here is a link to a web site about cloaking technology. This is from the public sector, imagine what the military is using.


projects.star.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp...


By the way this site is several years old so I am sure the technology is even more impressive then what we are seeing.

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 28-1-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by merka
The idea of a soldier has changed quite a bit since WW2. I dont think the army want the "brainwashed" soldier, they want the one that can think and survive while achieving their objectives.

Although I do think that with the advances in body armour technology (and weapons), we will see the return of a knight style soldier. We're just not quite there yet

[edit on 28-1-2006 by merka]

Actually, what you are going to see is the common foot soldier being closer to a tank.

Instead of looking at the GI as a soldier, they are looking at them as a weapons platform, just lke a tank or fighter aircraft. Thus, they will be given sensory equipment, different specialized munitions, active and passive stealth systems, etc.

I'm having trouble seeing how such things would work out. A great many of soldiers dont have diplomas, let alone college degrees. How are they going to be able to handle all this equipment?

[edit on 28-1-2006 by punkmonkey14]

punkmonkey14, most soldiers are not as stupied as you think they are lol plus the new systems just require your skills at computer or video games lol, yea think about it... those super soldiers are really geeks that are really good at games lol

Hiya. I just have a few links to post regarding this invisibility technology. You may well have seen them before. Not sure about the "uber-soldat" though. I thought that was Return To Castle Wolfenstein.

Anyway:

Invisibility Shield

Invisible Uniform

Invisibility Cloak [Video]

Pretty funky tech.

Originally posted by punkmonkey14
I'm having trouble seeing how such things would work out. A great many of soldiers dont have diplomas, let alone college degrees. How are they going to be able to handle all this equipment?

[edit on 28-1-2006 by punkmonkey14]

Some one once said video games are training the soldiers of the future. The "Nintendo generation" has already proven much better with dealing with advanced systems then older people. Awhile back the tested a 360 degree panel display inside MBTs and the older guys had and much harder time adjusting to the systems then the younger soldiers refeered to as the "Nintendo generation"

Look what the army invest millions of dollars into today as a promotional tool the FPS video game American army. Look at new systems like the remote controled UCAVs like predator or the robot Pacbot very Videogame like. Anyone that can play a videogame or use the internet wont have trouble with alot of these systems. Most kids now grow up with this stuff at a very early age and are very good at it.

Alright, sure they can handle the advanced systems and everything, but is this "Nintendo Generation" in shape enough to perform the duties of a soldier when 1/3 people in the US is overweight? Sure they can work an invisibility cloak or what have you, but can they run 10 miles, climb a mountain, and fire upon people knowing that there isnt any respawn?

Um.. thats what boot camp is for. I had a friend that went into the Marines overweight and lost like 50 pounds. All you do is run and workout when your over weight in boot camp until you get the weight off so you can do the runs or whatever in the required time. Believe me boot camp will burn the weight off faster then any diet you see on TV.

Boot camp is also a great place to condition the mind to having to fire on live targets knowing there are no extra lives.

I think that the cloaking ability is going to be a great advance for the military. Just think of the applications.

Imagine a plane with that technology on it's underbelly. you would look up and just see a blur in a patch of sky. Recon vechicles could camp for days and not be noticed. It would be a major advantage to the country that develops it first.

Much of what needs to be said has already been mentioned, but having been a Marine I'd like to add my two cents.

1. The new soldier needs more skill than strength. Your muscles get you close enough to kill the enemy, then your skills kill them. Wanna make the perfect soldier?
Learn how to build a perfectly covered and concealed fighting position so that you get the first shot in, without immediately getting a round back in your direction.

Learn to estimate distances so you can zero your weapon, and so that you can spot for artillery well.

Learn everything there is to know about your weapon system- what are the most common failures and how do you correct them quickly? How could you employ it better? What is the most likely target and what are that target's weaknesses- know these things in excruciating detail.

Learn the language of an area you may one day be fighting in- if I was in the USMC right now, I'd probably be listening to some Arabic language tapes or something.

Learn the job of the man over you, and know exactly what the mission is so that you can continue to operate when your leaders go down, or even if you end up on your own- Rifleman Dodd style.

2. The super soldier of hitler's day was a bad idea. We learned that lesson the hard way. Why do you think they invented Meth, Agent Orange, etc? Super-strong, super-vicious morons aren't enough. WWII taught us that flexible plans and leadership in the lower ranks is what saves the day when the stuff hits the fan.

3. It's hard to keep a secret in the military. The rumor mill finds out everything- whether it's true or not. I could see keeping a few airplanes secret, maybe some new gear, but I'd be blown away if you could have several thousand Rambos running around without somebody opening their big mouth to brag, and next thing you know every grunt has his own version of the story and a fantasy about getting in. It would hardly be a security risk, because the rumor mill has a way of getting details wrong and leaving out specifics, but people would find out that there was something out there. So I severely doubt that there are batallions upon batallions of brainwashed supermen ready to go anywhere and do anything on a moments notice- unless you're one of those jerks who thinks Marines are brainwashed.

maybe a differnt topic alltogether....but what about soldiers like.... Jason Bourne from the Bourne series. great books wonder if there is anything like this in the military's arsenal?

Originally posted by kaferwerks
maybe a differnt topic alltogether....but what about soldiers like.... Jason Bourne from the Bourne series. great books wonder if there is anything like this in the military's arsenal?

Minus the Hollywood stuff? Yes, probably. What was Jason Bourne exactly? Very intelligent, well educated, well trained in field craft, and rigidly disciplined. A man of that basic outline is definately possible.
I don't think he'd be quite as rigid as the Bourne character, not quite as lethal, and not as independent (would need some kind of briefing and support I'm sure) but like I said, minus the Hollywood stuff, I'd buy it.

The North Koreans have found a great way to raise functioning fanatics without the undesireable effects of brainwashing; the state raises orphans for military service. I'm sure with the right training a guy like that could get a lot closer to that "Jason Bourne" level than most Americans would, simply because you don't have to break his thought process to make him what you want- you just shape his thought process from the very beginning so that's what he is- it's not just the product of command-response-penalty/reward conditioning.

A Henry David Thoreau quote may be appropriate here though "Go down to the docks and see a marine... such a man as an American government can make with it's black arts".


Edit to add: as for gear such as "predator suits" as you called them, etc- if there are any technical barriers remaining, I don't think they'll last long. So it could end up happening within our lifetimes or our children's- IF it is practical.

Depending on how much the government has been successful in keeping out of the private sector, the optical technology and the battery capacity may already exist, or may not be far away.

Durability might be another question of course- if you can't get it wet, leave it in the barracks.

Then there are costs and benefits to be weighed. If a "predator suit" costs a 5 million dollars, and it still can't conceal the soldier's rifle, and the pentagon can't think up too many missions that absolutely could not be accomplished without that stuff- then it's just not gonna happen (unless of course the company that makes the stuff is buddy buddy with the powers that be in American government).

It's going to be an exciting and scarry next few centuries. Einstein has almost already proven right in saying that WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones- major modern militaries just aren't willing to test eachother these days.

Whether it comes in the form of super soldiers, genetically engineered microbes that eat rubber and metal, directed energy weapons, or just threatening to exile American Idol losers to the enemy nation, the advances in weaponry that we see over the next short amount of time could potentially introduce such an incredible weight of military power that wars simply cannot be waged anymore.

Sooner or later we'll get even beyond the MAD thing and get to a point where every major nation knows that within 300 seconds of the order being given, the war will be over one way or another and most sane people just can't cope with sudden change on that level, so instead of wars they'll just sign up for the one world government as an easy out.

I mean think about it- who would go to war if armies were like the predator- virtually invincible against one another and therefore forced to carry out total war on eachother's homelands? In my mind that's heavier than the nuclear threat, because I don't want a bunch of invisible, invicible, supermen burning down our cities and forcing our families out into the cold as a result.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by The Vagabond]

Thankyou for your point of view and perspective (i.e. from a former marines point of view). It is very interesting. Where you call your experience from the field, I call mine from books and the internet. I'm sure with various points of view and various talents such as our in the Western world, far greater minds than ours can co-operate to defeat the scourge of islam or any other know threats to the western civilization. Atleast we all have one thing in common, to live free or die trying..................


KOZAK - LIVE FREE OR DIE TRYING!

Originally posted by punkmonkey14
Alright, sure they can handle the advanced systems and everything, but is this "Nintendo Generation" in shape enough to perform the duties of a soldier when 1/3 people in the US is overweight? Sure they can work an invisibility cloak or what have you, but can they run 10 miles, climb a mountain, and fire upon people knowing that there isnt any respawn?

I wouldn't let the overweight statistics fool you. If you go by the charts being used the majority of your professional athletes are overweight. It is a favorite tactic of some that if your data doesn't give the desired results then change the parameters. This is exactly what has happened in the case of the tables used to determine weight. They didn't have enough people at the old standards to get the funding that they wanted so they changed the standards to include more people. Yesterday you were heavy, today you are obese. My nephew is 6'-1" and weighs in at 255 lbs. If you go by the tables he should weigh only 172 lbs. He runs 5 miles a day and swims 2 miles. He plays on the Football, Basketball and Baseball teams and is on the Track team. Yet I'll bet that in the statistics derived from the height and weight numbers for his school he is in the obese catagory and counted in those statistics.

The "uber soldat" is just a front for a "Robocop" type soldier that the U.s is developing, if you think I'm kidding look at the way the United states are going with military technology unmanned drones and missile platforms just imagine instead of sending a tank in you sent in a few 10ft bad ass robots fully equipped with whatever tech they have got right now, the psychological side of it would scare the # out of the enemy.

Jim is right about the weight statistics. When I was in the poolee program waiting to go to boot, I technically was over the weight limit for enlistment still- but I was responisble for exercising the others whenever the recruiters couldn't because I could run longer and faster than the skinny guys. (when you're fat, the coolest thing that can possibly happen is to say "double time" and listen to a bunch of human fence-posts groan- dang I miss those days)

Ht/Wt alone is a complete joke without a Body Fat Composition check, and even that can be misleading if the subject is well nourished and maintains a reasonably active lifestyle. The bottom line is that if you take a skinny guy who is chronically dehydrated and hasn't got a good store of ATP in his system, his fast metabolism is not going to help him outperform a fat guy who keeps himself hydrated and properly nourished, no matter what tendency that person may have to store fat.


As for robot soldiers- I would never build a large robot soldier- especially not a humanoid one. Bigger weapons are just bigger targets, and the humanoid form is extremely vulnerable to damage.

If I were going to build and unmanned ground combat vehicle, it wouldn't be much bigger than waist high, would present a very narrow target on the front side, would be tracked, not legged, and would carry only one weapon, with the ability to change it's weapon out for different missions.

If you send a 10 foot tall Terminator onto the battlefield you're going to lose a million dollar weapons platform in a storm fo dirt-cheap mortar shells- or worse yet- to something as simple as a well prepared snare trap.

I'd build a miniature tank- no delicate limbs, low visibility, and good protection by virtue of the reduced surface area which must be armored. Strap a Mk 19 (or against armor, a 20mm cannon) to that thing, and you've just added an incredible amount of firepower to your assault without having to build a whole IFV around it- and nobody will even cry if it's KIA (well maybe some taxpayers).

Additionally, I really don't think that there will ever be a machine that can 100% replace the infantryman. Armor is now the unquestioned king of offensive manuever warfare. Artillery is undoubtably one of the most devastating supporting assets that a force can have. Air power brings a whole new level of reach and precision to the manuever campaign.

But whatever weapons they might be operating, there will probably always be infantrymen, dug into a hill, concealed in a city, or storming a beach to form the line and create the balance of power which the other weapons exist to tip. If you don't know how to manage your pawns, you don't know how to play chess.

I can't seem to find it on google, but I remember reading this comical story online about a future war veteran telling his war stories- the generator gets taken out and the enemy are coming- the automated guns and the lasers and all that are down and they infantry are fixing bayonets and getting ready- and you expect that it's about to turn into a real blood bath story- then at the last minute, some corporal shows up with a backup generator- the defenses come back on and the enemy is butchered. The point? Somebody's gotta get that backup generator- there's always gonna have to be a grunt somewhere to hang on by his fingertips when everything else comes unglued.

I am not saying that they will completely replace infantry but if you had some sort of robotic element to spearhead an infiltration the psychological damage alone would freak the enemy out and also save lives.
They have robotic bomb disposal so why not the same for infantry units to go into places like fallujah with a lot of insurgents hidden in houses.
It would have to be heavily armoured, more mobile and agile than a tank and a very stable weapons platform.

i found this sight
science.howstuffworks.com...
a little while back, at the end of the list is links from various gov/universities/corporations that further define how some parts work. i feel this is ample proof of an attempt at creating super soldiers.

this is the link page:
science.howstuffworks.com...

[edit on 12-4-2006 by skitsosoldier]