When friends may be the enemy - DisInformation in the new age.

I think one of the crucial things I have noticed is that the majority of people appear to believe that disinformation originating from the perpetrators of events such as 9/11 would only function by seemingly reinforcing official versions of events.
This is clearly not so, in fact it makes far more sense in a situation like this, where discrepancies are almost completely impossible to hide, to react by throwing in false leads designed to confuse people and keep them preoccupied.
After all, if people are busy discussing falsities that can obviously never be proven, they are not discussing the more sensitive and accurate issues pertaining to the true nature of the event.
The most popular theories revolving around the events of September 11th, 2001 appear to be some of the most ridiculous and unlikely; I believe this is no accident. I am sure there are at least several mainstream sites which primarily address issues relating to 9/11 who have some form of hidden agenda, controlled by forces unknown, designed to confuse and disorientate while keeping people occupied on trivial or false ideas.
It is obvious this is working, as in the nearly 5 years since the event, little progress appears to have been made by these alleged truth movements. The biggest so called breakthrough I have seen of late is the video recording by a Mr Rick Siegel, which has mysteriously taken this long to emerge and with no other recordings in the public domain to back up its claims. However it would be understandable that the gentlemen would be concerned for his well being if the recording is as it seems and due to the high rate being paid for footage on the day, it would seem perfectly feasible that the majority of footage has been bought and stored, with anything left being in the hands of citizens without the knowledge or ability to share what they have through the Internet.
While even I could see some glaring errors in the reasoning behind a lot of the content, which actually reduced a friend of mine who is more knowledgeable in these areas to tears of laughter, the footage itself which the video revolves around is certainly interesting and significant if, and this is a big if, it is as it seems.
I am fairly sure that a lot of the content in the program is filling to make it seem a more tempting purchase, but then it would be understandable that the author would like to see some revenue from his work and risks taken. It does seem a little disappointing though that given the potential magnitude of the information within that he did not distribute the raw footage freely through one of the many ways I know are available.
Still, if genuine we should be grateful he has chosen to come forward with it at all, when many people would be too scared to put themselves on the line in such a way, or would simply have given in to the tempting offers of high financial rewards being offered for 9/11 footage at the time.

Given the inability to be assured that even this new evidence is genuine, we are left with virtually no real breakthroughs and nearly five years on the world has become a completely different place. If we are to believe as some people do that September 11th was part of a plot to help push forward changes in world policies and homeland security, then it seems that it is almost too late and while people have been kept occupied arguing over such entertaining subjects as “Pods”, “Did an airliner hit the Pentagon”, "Was the taxi moved" and “Explosives in the WTC”, the changes they fear are happening here and now.
This alone seems like good evidence of a structured attempt by powers unknown to influence and control people through the power of alternative media such as the Internet, in effect the very tool which has allowed people to communicate with each other to share information and has allowed them to even become aware of hidden agendas and alternative theories, has also been the tool used to contain them.

We came into a new age with the widespread distribution of the Internet allowing people to share ideas and information, which then bred another new age of Disinformation; Now we are entering yet another new age – one in which we must fight back against the real disinformation sources, seeking them out and exposing them for what they truly are.
To do this we must be open minded and try to think from the point of view or our enemy, we must think like they think, trying to understand how they perceive us and how we would spread disinformation if we were them.

In this rising new age we have to analyse information knowing that the enemy is aware of our own awareness of both their presence and interference. We have to look at the possible new ways in which the enemy will try and trick us and confuse us, we have to keep on our toes and try and always stay one step ahead.
Now is a time for change, we have to look at all the information we have realistically and logically, we have to be prepared to admit that a lot of theories will have been planted to distract us from the true path and even the correct path(s) may have been obscured to an extent.

It makes more than perfect sense that there will be disinformation agents walking amongst us, not just here on ATS but on the Internet as a whole including many other popular conspiracy forums. But don’t think that they will be the obvious people, the ones who appear to tow an official line.
Don’t make the mistake of allowing your arrogance to make you think you are one step ahead of the puppet masters, they are here, they know what you are thinking.
Is it not unreasonable that not being able to steer people any longer by simply baffling them with official stories they will seek alternative methods, such as infiltrating the group and appearing to sing the same song, but to a different rhythm, taking everyone to an alternate destination full of wonders, yet still far from the truth.

I believe that many boards around the Internet have been infiltrated in this way; there are those that walk amongst us singing the song of Freedom and Truth who are simply here to lead those that will follow on a trip down a dark, drizzly path to nowhere.
In our quest for knowledge and light, we now have to be aware of and defend ourselves against these people and be aware that they will try many different tricks to discredit us. We must not allow this to happen, beware of those that are completely unquestioning to official stories of events, but be even more cautious of those that entertain ideas that are proven wrong or don’t make any sense.

I see the latest attack on ATS as a sign that we are closer to the truth than ever, though we must now be more cautious of getting drawn into the web of disinformation under the guise of comrades in arms.
We must never allow our spirit to be broken and together we will carry on fighting in our quest to deny ignorance.

EDIT: Spelling, Grammer, errors.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

not bad, smithy! not bad at all.

this is a brave new era where we can attack anyone who doesn't buy the 'obvious truth' on the grounds that the truth can't be complicated. any discrepencies in information from different sources MUST be ignored, if we're to get any kind of understanding of 911.
anything which clearly indicates a lie in the official story must be ignored in favour of concentrating on some OTHER irrefutable data that the bad guys are buying and selling, and slaughtering us like cattle.
for example, if i know cheney has shady business dealings, or i knew haliburton had people arrested for handing out sandwiches, or i knew bush was a cokehead, or i knew the administration and congress, even, were passing laws that violate the constitution it would be better to focus on that, or i knew that evidence from a crime scene had been destroyed, or that.......
oh yeah, and the whole jeff guckert/gannon whitehouse kiddieprostitute parties and the franklin cover-up...yeah, i would definitiely concentrate on that....oh yeah, and the chertoff conection at both fema and popular mechanics, the new home of yellow journalism,,,,yeah, i would concentrate on that...
or if i found out the flight schools were regularly used by the cia to import drugs, i would concentrate on that...

you know what's interesting, is that THIS is a new wave of propoganda that is going around. it's simple turnaround. anyone who is 'getting bogged down in unecessary detail' can now be 'branded' a 'disinfo agent'. there's someone at physorg who has repeatedly accused me of 'rove-like'(lol) 'poisoning the well'(the desk agents term for putting out a 'crowd' of false info in which the 'single truth' hides). the thing about a poison water source, is that DISTILLATION will clean up your water, and make it drinkable again.

it is this distillation process that info undergoes on the web, and in intelligence offices around the world.

damn, and we used to be able to tell them by their fruit, LOL!

don't worry, old bean, i still have discretion and a slow but reliable intellect to help you wade through what's what.

that taxi looks like planted evidence to me, for example. look at the damage to the car, the arc on the pavement, and the anomolous dust and debris around the pole that is in some pictures, and not in others...

oh wait. you already did, and have DECIDED that there is 'nothing to see there, move along'. in fact, you started this thread to refer people to WHENEVER there is 'nothing to see here, move along'. very handy work.




[edit on 26-1-2006 by billybob]

Incorrect, there are many people out there delibrately trying to mask the truth with both denial and seemingly good 'inside info' or theories.
I used those particular subjects as examples because of my own opinon regarding them, maybe it will be proven wrong but so far it does'nt seem that way. There are blatant deceptions out there, the most obvious being the pod and missile theories, which are both illogical and practically impossible depending on which location you subscribe to for the alleged pod. Of course that's still just my opinon....
Nor do I suggest people don't investigate things in detail, I merely advise caution in doing so and sometimes using more common sense. Beware those that keep pressing a point for no seemingly good reason, they may very well have ulterior motives.
Obviously this does not mean that we ignore information, it just means that it is more complicated then it seems to filter out what is disinfo and what is useful. Rather than simply categorising it as being either 'disinfo' (as in official versions) and 'Conspiracy theories'/'Alternative theories' there is no clear defining division.

The point is that people need to be weary of information from all angles. The most obvious one that people have been aware of for some time is that of pure denial or the promotion of official ideas.
What a lot of people seem to have not considered is that a huge proportion will be distributed through seemingly 'friendly' sources, this works well in several ways including making it far more difficult to detect and also luring the average person, either observing or actively engaged in the discussion, into a false sense of security.

It is difficult to decide who these people may be, some may be more subtle while others more obvious. I think we can be pretty sure that they will fall into several categories and not simply one or two.
The most obvious ones will of course be those that appear to take a huge active part in certain theories while wildly distributing accusations of disinfo to anyone that fails to agree and always tirelessly reviving the same old theories whenever the discussion takes a more interesting turn.

I started this thread to ensure that people are aware of the dangers they face and the trickery they will be exposed to. It has come to my attention that not enough people have given thought to the very real possibility of disinformation agents infiltrating their ranks and steering them away from truth by offering them a more exciting, alternative one. The truth is guaranteed not to lie in one of the extreme areas such as the complete official version of events, nor is likely that space aliends orchastrated it using remote aircraft fitted with missiles. Maybe it was a more mundane group that did it using remote control and it was for monetary or political gains.
Maybe the terrorists did hijack the aircraft and do it as described thinking their motivation was religon, but really the puppet masters behind the scenes had more sinister motives. It could be many things but it will undoubtedly be complicated.

What will be interesting is to see who rushes out to respond to this post and in what way, I can be sure that informing people of the alternative angles of deception they can expect will drag people out of the woodwork and make some people sweat.
Beyond a doubt we will now see a number of people either contesting this or attempting to cover their tracks by making further sacrifices for the benefit of the true agenda, for example revealing existing disinfo tactics in operation. More than likely they will choose subjects and theories which are on their last legs and can be sacrificed with minimal loss, while at the same time maximising any potential gain still exisiting in using them to help conceal their identities and of course, the ever elusive truth.
I am sure this thread will get a substantial response, but I doubt it will be by any obvious means within this thread, we should keep our wits about us in looking for any signs in what people post and the way some people may change after this. I for one will be suspect by many for sure, but things of late have made me realise that things can be very serious and should not be taken lightly. There are also more dangers from more angles that we must be aware of than ever before.
But whatever happens, it may very well cause enough thought to help us identify those who truly mean to deny us the truth.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

well, you and i disagree on just about everything. i'm glad your not my freind, 'cause if you were, i might have to mistrust you. as it is, i can safely assume that whatever i'm thinking, you will think the opposite.

seeing as we can't both be right, that makes one of us a spreader of disinfo. it will alternate on whose doing it when, because sometimes i'll be right(yes, it happens), and sometimes you'll be right(most of the time, OF COURSE!). so this makes us both disinformationalists.

i like to hide a lot of truth in my disinfo. that'll keep 'em guessing, i figger.

I think you're still failing to understand, whoever it is that aims to spread disinfo, will be aware of the growing number of people who are aware things are not as they seem.
Now people are aware of dis-info, the next logical step is to adapt the method in such a way that people will be less suspicious of it.
Plain denial will no longer suffice, a compromise has to be made and this means releasing what seems like damaging information and ideas which act as a diversion while reality takes place.
This is a very real and significant prospect that people need to be aware of, are you trying to deny them this or wipe the thought from their minds?

This got me thinking. My theory now is this. All the video except one of the pentagon crash has been classified right? Well, I'm thinking that instead of them hiding something, they are now sitting there laughing at us because we're quabling over what hit the pentagon instead of trying to focus on more real matters.

Who cares what hit the pentagon. I care about who orchastrated it and why. Get my point?

Originally posted by AgentSmith
I think you're still failing to understand, whoever it is that aims to spread disinfo, will be aware of the growing number of people who are aware things are not as they seem.
Now people are aware of dis-info, the next logical step is to adapt the method in such a way that people will be less suspicious of it.
Plain denial will no longer suffice, a compromise has to be made and this means releasing what seems like damaging information and ideas which act as a diversion while reality takes place.
This is a very real and significant prospect that people need to be aware of, are you trying to deny them this or wipe the thought from their minds?

i'm understanding perfectly. i happen to have already mastered triple reverse with a half twist disinfo 101 at the Spy University.
which is why i'm pointing out that this very thread can be viewed as self-referential.
do you understand?

Oh yes I fully understand, these days everyone and everything is a suspect. So yes, this thread could be seen as suspicious as it may describe it's own actions in some respects. But never the less the information contained within is accurate and regardless of anything, they are points which have to be considered.
I'm not afraid of telling everyone so they are aware of it, I believe it important that people realise this and feel that the only way progression can be made is if they are addressed and considered.
One may question your motives of attempting to derail these points, is there something here you are afraid of people knowing?
Perhaps it is because you and I don't get along and you feel the need to disregard or criticise anything I say, even if it is in your favour by being pivotal in getting to the truth?

Originally posted by Griff
Who cares what hit the pentagon. I care about who orchastrated it and why. Get my point?

Yes, that's what's important, what's the point of spending years worrying about what are actually trivial matters if it means you turn around at the end of it with a conclusion, only to find the world is a different place and you are being ushered into your final resting ground.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

What gets me is that no one knows exactly what the 'real truth' or etc. is, that we're allegedly avoiding by discussing other topics.

Of course, you can say that this is just a sign of a job well done, but why don't you at least try to go after the real issues that you seem to be more interested in, Smith?

If you were to go deeper into 9/11 and pull out 'the real truth' or whatever, I don't think many people would be challenging you from the conspiracy side, but go ahead and see. I'm interested in seeing what you think is so important and needs to be brought to light and held there anyway, above everything else that is already being argued to show direct government involvement and massive, horrendous conspiracy. What is it that's so critical that you think we're covering up? Post some threads on it and get us thinking.

Originally posted by bsbray11
What is it that's so critical that you think we're covering up? Post some threads on it and get us thinking.

When did I say you were covering it up? I merely am stating that there are people out there acting from all angles to do this, it is important for people to move onto a next level. People have been convicted in courts of law for murder with no weapon being found, it is irrelevant in the long run and precious time and resources can be wasted on what is really trivial information.
You could find a dagger used in a murder at the bottom of an old lake bed 500 years in the future during an archeological expedition, but the victims and murder(s) will be long gone, the events will have passed and those guilty will have walked free, it will be nothing more than an interesting story for a history book.
Until more people start to look in the forward facing direction, anyone that makes a stand and tries to speak freely will become nothing more than a forgotten martyr.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

Well, whomever you're addressing, nonetheless, what do you think we should investigate instead? Because, like I said, start a thread man. I'm sure people will be more than happy to help.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by bsbray11]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.

You're saying that to preserve cover, disinfo agents would increasingly blend in true, "damaging" information with false leads, correct? Instead of simply sticking to official lines, they would pretend to be anti-establishment to garner trust and sympathy - although that's nothing new - correct?

About time you ran a contrarian thread containing some damaging truths then, correct?

Originally posted by Lumos
You're saying that to preserve cover, disinfo agents would increasingly blend in true, "damaging" information with false leads, correct? Instead of simply sticking to official lines, they would pretend to be anti-establishment to garner trust and sympathy - although that's nothing new - correct?

About time you ran a contrarian thread containing some damaging truths then, correct?

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, but the point of this, as I keep explaining, is simply to ensure that people are aware of the various tactics that can be used.

I'll try and explain again, knowing that more people are now aware and dubious of any information that simply reinforces the official story - they will basically stall for time by throwing in and encouraging various conspiracy theories. While people are busy arguing amongst themselves over relatively trivial matters, the world is changing around us as we speak and the conditions we were so concerned about 5 years ago are becoming a reality today.
There are people out there who pose as 'free thinkers' initiating ideas and also encouraging subjects which have as much evidence either way so people are simply kept occupied over what is actually a trivial detail in the big picture.
It is possible there are elements of truth in some subjects, but even if it is proven - what is the point when you emerge to tell the world and it is gone or changed so much it is a shadow iof it's former self?
Unfortunately, the majority of people are too busy trying to spot the enemy on the other side of the river to see the one who was posing as their buddy sneaking up behind them with a garrotte.

The reaction in this thread so far is interesting in itself, the people that have come forward are all ones who I virtually always disagree with and people who have accused me of being a disinfo agent, how pictorial of the brainwashing that even when things are said in your favour (but by someone you perceive as an enemy) you still come forward dubious and attempting to discredit what I say... The wonders of the human mind...
Tell me, if I kept stating that it was a bad idea to jump off a highway bridge, would you go ahead and do it...?

[edit on 28-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

there are many people out there delibrately trying to mask the truth with both denial and seemingly good 'inside info' or theories.

I agree.

I've always felt (and even more so as time goes on) that in order to really control a situation you have to control - as much as possible anyway- both flows of information. Pro and Con controlled by basically the same group.

Planting seeds of this and that scattered in disparate parts of the web, archive or library somewhere. Perhaps even batch consigning certain information at certain groups.

Turning seekers of truth into spreaders of disinformation and they have absolutely no clue they're doing it.

As time goes on truth will become more and more personal. What is truth to you is a lie to me.

If no body can agree no body can move forward and nothing ever gets solved.

Unless I've completely missed the point..and it wouldn't be the first time.

Spiderj

No it sounds like a very valid point to me. I have no quick answer for it and I'm not sure there is one.
You can't label anything easily as being disinfo, I used some examples in my first post but in all honesty they are based purely on my own opinion at the end of the day, so in effect it simply proves your point.
But I must emphasise that when looking for disinformation, people need to look at everything and have to accept there is an at least equal chance that people who appear to be on the same side as them, perhaps even 'noisy' central characters who claim to be seeking the truth, have a very good chance of being a disinformation agent themselves.
In fact, now that people are more aware disinfo being spread which simply contradicts conspiracy theories and will not listen to any of it - not even what makes sense and is probably true, there is a much greater necessity to attack from a different angle. It was probably done from the beginning - these people are not stupid and if you are prepared to give them credit for pulling off the biggest crime in history (whoever 'they' may be) then you should be more than prepared to believe they will have planned well ahead with how they will control or delay any investigation into what happened.
The point about how honest people become unwitting spreaders of disinfo is also an important point as you say, quite often I and others will be called a 'shill' simply for seeing things differently, yet the people that are quick to accuse are often oblivious to the fact they too could be a 'shill' but for someone else.
Again based on my opinon, but I think the claims that the aircraft were holograms or edited into newsfootage after are one of the biggest jokes in the whole scene. Yet there are people out there even as upstanding as Rick Siegel who entertain this idea.
I'll try to be openminded so as not to invoke any more accusations, but I believe this is a prime example of disinformation designed not only to distract, but more importantly to render the whole Conspiracy perspective in a very bad light. Present people with videos of the collapse and you may get them to question what caused it, try and tell them that they didn't see aircraft and they were edited in afterwards... Well.... We can imagine the result and after that will they be so eager to hear any other theories? I think not..

Your point of how the truth becomes personal is also a very good one, you see it all the time and people that should be on the same side become divided. Just look at the response in this thread from other members - I try and help people out by pointing out important issues that need to be considered and they think it's suspicious, trying to throw it back in my face. Either that or the article is sailing too close for comfort for some people..

[edit on 29-1-2006 by AgentSmith]

Of Course 911 was a set up to go after the oil. Afganistan was smoke and mirrors to get to Iraq. See politicians set up layers of facade. The oil is not for automobiles, its for transducers silicon and synthetic chips, by products. You see transponders and transducers are counting devices for manufacturing and mind control and cell phones, wireless communication, Alien possession and becoming an American Idol or writer overnightm sort to speak.. The 911 tragidy was allowed to happen in order to trigger the invasion plan. The proof is in nothing. And the nothing is the lack of any good global reason for the invasions. Not very complicated and not very blah blah blah of words having no substance. It leaves a man chasing red herring. It taste bad too. Cordially, Ravenmock1

Very good, but can we keep specific discussion on the events of 9/11 for the 9/11 forums, obviously using elements as an example as I have done is fine, but I havn't seen anything in your post that relates to the topic of the thread which is about Disinformation.

AgentSmith
The reaction in this thread so far is interesting in itself, the people that have come forward are all ones who I virtually always disagree with and people who have accused me of being a disinfo agent, how pictorial of the brainwashing that even when things are said in your favour (but by someone you perceive as an enemy) you still come forward dubious and attempting to discredit what I say... The wonders of the human mind...

The wonders of memory. Not everyone suffers from the legendary 5-second attention span, therefore your assumption that we would completely reassess your motivations with every new post you make is invalid. Outlining "disinfo 2.0" and simultaneously starting to pursue it might win intellects equivalent to Faux-fans over, but it will not deceive autonomous, aware minds.

You might think we're only arguing over history at this point, an academical, irrelevant to reality exercise. However, accurate perception of 9/11 does have tangible consequences for history in the making.

AgentSmith
the conditions we were so concerned about 5 years ago are becoming a reality today.

Isn't that telling? Sounds like you're discouraging debate: why bother when you can only distill the truth after untruths have already shaped reality? The lack of concern exhibited there just goes on to reinforce my convictions.

You paint this thread as "pointing out important issues", let me tell you we're aware of CoIntelPro's countless modes of infiltration: direct, reverse, x-reversed - it's nothing new, at all. The only important thing transcending here is the obvious correlation between your announcement that CIP can take the reverse-route and your novel partiCIPation in it.

Still not sure what I'm "trying to imply" here?

[edit]

As, for some reason, I can't relocate one of my posts that posed a direct question to you, let me ask again:

Why would you, apparently seeing no merits in "conspiracy theories" (up until a week ago, that is) spend such vast amounts of time on this site, which is explicitly dedicated to discussing exactly those? If, in your opinion, we were all loonies, wouldn't it be magnitudes more sensible to spend that time in a more worthwhile manner, somewhere else?

[edit on 29-1-2006 by Lumos]

Really? You seem to have such an opinon of my motivations and what I think. You have read all of my over 2000 posts over the last 3 years have you? You know enough about me to come to these conclusions do you?

Regardless of my motivations, you can't change the information being put forward, nor can you deny it is true.
Nor am I trying to discourage any form of debate, please can you explain how this is the case in your opinon?

Once again, here we see someone attempting to derail the topic of the thread with yet another personal attack - how telling

If your so interested in me then use the link in the sig to talk in the thread for the task.

Mr previous statement still stands, it is very telling to see who has responded and how.

Now where was I... Oh yes.

Listen to me and hear me now:

AgentSmith says "COINTELPRO requests you DO NOT, repeat, DO NOT jump off the nearest highway bridge. Thank you for your co-operation."

[edit on 29-1-2006 by AgentSmith]