Do you ever wonder if the Roman Empire had never fallen how great the world would be right now?....

Ricko..

Romans were savages.

Remember colosseum?

I have been there..



And the Roman empire still lives..

The Eagle symbol..



www.globalsecurity.org...

Roman Empire

In the fourth century B.C., Alexander the Great of Macedonia brought all these empires and dominions, in fact most of civilization known to the Western World, under his suzerainty in a series of rapid military conquests. In so doing, he carried to the highest point of development the art of war as it was practiced in the Greek city-states. He utilized the phalanx? a solid mass infantry formation using pikes as its cutting edge?as the Greeks had long done, but put far greater emphasis on heavy cavalry and contingents of archers and slingers to increase the maneuverability of his armies.

The Romans eventually fell heir to most of Alexander's empire and extended their conquests westward and northward to include present-day Spain, France, Belgium, and England, bringing these areas within the pale of Roman civilization. The Romans built on the achievements of Alexander and brought the art of war to its zenith in the ancient world. They perfected, in the legion, a tactical military unit of great maneuverability comparable in some respects to the modern division, performed remarkable feats of military engineering, and developed elaborate systems of fortification and siegecraft. For all their achievements, the Romans made no real progress in the development of new weapons.

Roman military institutions, like Roman political organization and economy, underwent progressive decay after the second century A.D. The Roman Empire in the west was succeeded first by a congeries of barbarian kingdoms and eventually by a highly decentralized political system known as feudalism, under which a multitude of warring nobles exercised authority over local areas of varying size.



Funny this info is found at the www.globalsecurity.org...

Under US military..

www.globalsecurity.org...

An interesting thought -
a world led from Europe by an a "godhead" possesing a belief in his self proclaimed divinity - hmm well maybe

but to look to the real history of the Roman Empire - we had Claudius (Gais Germanicas), Nero, Claudius - not really what I would call a pedigree for a future world controling state -

Or are you looking at Marcus Auralias (sp) as a model for a future world - then you have been watching too much film hyped rubbish. The Romans were a brutal race - and if your scared of concentration camps in the US then rest assured the romans would have delivered in spades - especially to any dissenter.

In a time line projection - you would have seen a subjugated Native american population - probably serving as slaves or sacrifices in Rome - and the ret of Europe languishing in a somewhat subjugated state. As for science it took the Christian revolutions of the ancient world to push the boundaries that led to science as we know it today. Thats excluding the effects of the black plague on western europe.

For an interesting take on this - and ignoring the Roman connection -

"The years of Rice and Salt" - Kim Stanley Robinson

Fulcrum,

much of the known world was savage not just Rome.

the difference was they elevated to a form of theatre.

also I have been to Rome and the coliseum,

I have also extensively travelled in Finland,

people in your country drink a lot don't they?

Chances are if Rome never fell the world would be ruled by a world wide empire from the seat of Rome.
Chances are Islam would have never taken root because Mohammed would have been assasinated or crusified by the romans fearing a revolt (Or then again it would still be a great religion just with a few parts changed about it).
Chances are we would have many roman military bases all across the globe
Chances are we would have a great stride in medical and scientific advancement.
Chances are we would be visiting the moon on a regular basis.

But we're not, so if your so interested about this... write a book, direct a movie.

The medieval ages were a time humidity, the rise of major religions, the birth of the christian/islam hatred which in the domino is what the middle east is today. It is because of that we are who we are today. cheers

Thats why I quoted,

The goverment falls, not the people

Good stuff herm

Originally posted by THENEO

Flix or whatever your name is,

how can Rome be responsible for 99% of all people today?

Figure it out yourself moron.

I know it'll be hard for you to form a coherent thought but give it a try.

[Edited on 10/6/2003 by Flinx]

The vatican seems weak these days. Where does Ceasar hide today? Our basic template of societal control is Roman. Ceasar went into hiding, the Cruxifiction was a scam to seize controll of the disintergrating Empire. Check out the Gnostic Gospels. The Empire Never Ended.

do not forsake your forefathers...
for we are still present be it omnipresent with all the segregation and all...
but life is still a very beautifull thing...

Originally posted by THENEO
Fulcrum,

I have also extensively travelled in Finland,

people in your country drink a lot don't they?

Some do.. So?

I dont.. i see no point in it..

Originally posted by Ricko
Tell me this who INVENTED DEMOCRACY? The ROMANS .

If rome was so great, why did it fall? Because it was corrupt.

Chances are you would be a slave anyway.

the middle ages sucked because of the vikings

without them, i doubt the church would have the hold it does now

Very interesting conversation. The Romans were not savages, you cannot judge them by our modern standards they were a beacon of light in a very dark world. But I also dont like to see 'middle ages bashing', it was a time of rediscovery, a chance of reflection and enlightenment. I think if the romans were about today we would not be that technically advanced, the innovation would have become stale, as people became protectionist. Todays scientific discoveries were never enevitable. It would be a very different world though.
Nice topic.

You are probably right about the world being more advanced
had Imperial Rome never fell.
The roman empire was a far more advanced civilization prior
to the rise of christianity and constantine.
The dark ages and the intellectual stagnation that resulted
afterwards was partly or greatly the result of Christianity
and it's sinister influence.
The historian Edward Gibbon seems to suggest that Christianity was one of the causes for the decline of
the empire of Rome.

Some have regarded the Roman catholic church as a sort of
continuation of Imperial Rome, but I do not regard this institution as a part of the original Roman empire.
For that matter is has nothing to do with the original Imperial Roman empire.

The real question is � 'Do you ever wonder if the Roman Empire had never invented doctrine based religion as a basic ruling tool."
How great the world would be right now without Holy Inquisition? Remember Galileo...
Roman Empire didn�t fall � it was only evolution.
Observe how and why we have explosion of Christianity in Africa and South America...

Tell me one good thing that came out of the middle ages? NOTHING!

The realization that society can live without the state. The Western idea of society and individuality, as opposed to the Soviet style of government.

By the way, "The empire never ended."(Phillip K. Dick, Valis)

Originally posted by hexagramfifty
Tell me one good thing that came out of the middle ages? NOTHING!
The realization that society can live without the state. The Western idea of society and individuality, as opposed to the Soviet style of government.
By the way, "The empire never ended."(Phillip K. Dick, Valis)

Time to hit the history books, buddy.

Gunpowder was found in the middle-ages, what about the scientific Revolution?

I am not sure about that.

The Dark Ages were a relief compared to Rome. If they kept a Republic, and really abided by any morals there may have developed something new and different. Nonetheless the ways of an empire depend far too much upon the caprice of an Emperor, and it tends to destroy the commons in the form of taxes and more wars.

I see nothing admirable from ancient Roman history other than its shining moments as a Republic, taking care of business, building aqueducts, roads, and increasing trade. By the time they needed slaves, they were finished. Good riddance to Roman anticivilization!

Originally posted by Ricko
Tell me this who INVENTED DEMOCRACY? The ROMANS .

You say that like is was a great thing, when it helped lead to the downfall of the empire.

They (the citizens) will only vote reasonable until they realize they can vote on what isn't theirs.
Tyranny, plain and simple.

[Edited on 2-10-2004 by BeingWatchedByThem]

Originally posted by SkipShipman
The Dark Ages were a relief compared to Rome. If they kept a Republic, and really abided by any morals there may have developed something new and different. Nonetheless the ways of an empire depend far too much upon the caprice of an Emperor, and it tends to destroy the commons in the form of taxes and more wars.

Are we both talking about the same dark age?

Rome is one of the back bones of our civilizations, without that we would probably not be here in America.

Originally posted by Ricko
Just imagine if the Roman Empire never had fallen how far we would be in technology right now. I say we would be travelling to Jupiter and beyond. Us humans have wasted hundreds of years in war and crap like that for no reason.

I wanna hear your ideas on this topic and how better the world would of been right now if the Roman Empire had never fallen.

did the romans know that? did the barbarians who conqured rome know that? nope