The China Problem.

Thats not the point a aerial burst of 750 KT over ANY city spells doom for it.
For that matter any thermonuclear weapon, 40KT+ will make the region inhospitable.

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus

The people of China are not independent of eachother, they rely on the success of their central government, but if for instance the US destroyed their largest dam, China would be ruined.

I think Stratrf shall have better way to express himself and his logic--- I really have no idea how these two above linked together. So, if people are indepedent of each other, they can avoid being killed by flood? Stratrf, come on!

Besides, why does US want to bomb the dam? to kill innocent Chinese? That is equal to nuke. And there are many threads here talking about the nuclear war between major powers in this planet. So, Stratrf, please educate yourself from other threads here, I think I donot need to repeat it again and again.

They have 30 warheads capable of hitting the US...the US can pulverize China into oblivion with their Nuclear Capability.

This is a piece of news from 1980s. Again, there are many thread discussing this topic, You need to do some research before you start to waste your and other's time.


The other thing about China's agricultural import. Yes, China as become one of the largest importers, that mainly due to the upgrade of the food chain and it has nothing to mean that China cannot feed themselves, they just begin to eat lots better: much more pork, lmuch more beef , much more milk, much more seafood...

Last, China indeed face lots problems, somebody need to open a serious topic of this. The original post is little too funny and is full of author's confusion in logic.


[edit on 25-1-2006 by kidswar]

if a nuclear war ever starts, we're all forcibly sodomized.

30 well placed nukes i enough to put an entire nation into chaos.

think about it, 30 targets.

dc

hoover dam

nyc

la

major farming areas

industrial areas

that alone would throw this nation into chaos, so don't talk about anyone nuking china into a history textbook.

also, china could just lob a couple of nukes at japan, whiping out millions.

or saudi arabia, creating chaos and oil shortages

30 icbms can do a lot more than you realize.

what would be worse is an alliance between china and any other country, though india would be the scariest.

also, where is the majority of industrial production for the US done?
china, so now china can mobilize an even bigger army faster if they want to.

America isn't "generously" attached to the Yuan, you NEED us to simply survive economically. If you haven't realized 80% of American based multinations rely on China's abundant and skilled labour to produce their commodities which can then be exported to all around the world, 60% of those which goes back to US as imports that you buy daily in Wall Mart.

Without China the firms would have to hire labour from a secondary source, ultimately increasing the costs of production, as a chain reaction umemployment will increase in US causing recession. And a recession is something US can't afford to have right now.

Just because the value of a currency is relatively low does not necessarily label it as "inferior". The advantage of having a low value currency comes from the ability to sell exports with more competitiveness. Take the Japanese Yen for example, it is one of the lowest valued currency in the market, but that does not make the Japanese economy "inferior".

In fact, if you havne't been watching the news. The Chinese financial minister is INTENTIONALLY sustainning the low value of the Yuan, while US is protesting it saying China should let the Yuan's value flow freely without supply drag, which would causes Yuan's worth to increase.

Watch the news and take some economic classese before you tackle a subject like this.

So, if you nuke our Three Gorges Dam Chinese economy would be doomed........

What logic is this??

So what will happen if China nuke NYC, BOOM, Wall Street is ash, is US economy destroyed??

OH, and what about nuking the White House, BOOM, Bush and every idiot running America now is dead, so i guess US is goner?

China can nuke the White House??!
I wasn't aware they had that kind of range. I thought that they could hit only as far as the Rocky mountain states.
Maybe if they manage to get a SSBN within range, then Washington would be reachable.
Still, since China has a no first use policy and assuming that they stick to it, their strike would only have to be a retaliatory strike and by then PONUS and his band will be flying around the country or tucked up in some undisclosed N bunker..

Daedalus3,

Im just wondering how well informed you are?.

Was that a pot shot at my supopsed ignorance to military current affairs or was that something else?

Here's what I got for land based ICBMs:

SPECIFICATIONS


DF - 5:

Configuration: Two stage liquid
Length: 33m
Diameter: 3.4m
Launch Weight: 183,000kg
Propellant: Liquid fuel (Unsymmetrical Dimethylhydrazine/Nitrogen Tetroxide mix [UDMH/N2H4])
Guidance: Inertial with onboard computer
Range: 12,000km (DF-5); >13,000km (DF-5A)
Deployment: Silo and launch pad
Re-entry Vehicle Mass: ~3,000kg
Warhead: Single 3,000~5,000kT
CEP: ~1,000m
Launch Preparation Time: 120 min (mobile), or 45~60 min (in silo)


DF - 31

Configuration: Three-stage
Length: 13m
Diameter: 2.25m
Launch Weight: 42,000kg
Propellant: Solid fuel
Guidance: Inertial + stellar update
Range: 8,000km (DF-31); 10,000km (DF-31A)
Deployment: Silo or road mobile
Re-entry Vehicle Mass: 1,050~1,750kg
Warhead: One single 1,000kT, or up to three 20~150kT multiple independently targeted re-entry vehicle (MIRV)
CEP: 100~300m
Launch Preparation Time: 15~30 min

DF - 4: (Is it deployed or not )

Configuration: Three stage
Length: ~15m
Diameter: ~2m
Launch Weight: ~30,000kg
Propellant: Solid fuel
Guidance: Inertial + stella update (?)
Range: >12,000km
Deployment: Silo or mobile
Re-entry Vehicle Mass: ~1,000kg
Warhead: Multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle (MIRV)
CEP: 700 to 800m
Launch Preparation Time: ~15 min

So the only land based one(s) capable of reaching Washington DC from the eastern most points on China is the DF 5(Don't know if the DF 41 was ever inducted) since the distance is a few km short of 10500 km.
Form the western most points its about 11000km.

Try this out:
www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov...

I took Vladivostok as the eastern most point considering Manchuria and Tashkent as the western most point considering Xianjiang Province. Tashkent is say 500km west of the western chinese territory.

The DF 5 doesn't have MIRV capability which makes it even more easy to take out considering that fact that Washington will have the best ABM defenses the US has to offer.

So that leaves us with the SLBMs namely the JL 2 since the JL 1 has an IRBMish range.

The JL 2 as per best estimates has a range of 8000km max. Assuming it has been opertionally deployed, each Type 94 SSBN is said to carry 16 missiles. Whethre the JL 2 is MIRV capable is somewhat unknown.

So now to hit Washington DC (again assuming the theatre to be the Pacific ocean) to least distance it would have to travel undetected would be about 3000km due east of Tokyo in the North Pacific ocean to get to the 8000km range. In all probabability, it would be safer to patrol further south away from Japanese/US ASW and north of Guam(again to avoid US ASW).
This would obviously translate into a deeper patrol(by a few 1000km) since the distance to Washington would now be extended as it was not in the same latitudinal region (Tokyo-Wahshington).
And this is exactly what I meant when I said that sneaking a sub through PACCOM would do the job of leveling the White House in a PRE EMPTIVE strike.
Any second-strike would just hit an empty White House obviously.That is what I meant by PONUS and his band flying around if it were a counter strike

So what was all that about?!!

Maybe this belongs in the Weaps forum?


[edit on 2-4-2006 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Was that a pot shot at my supopsed ignorance to military current affairs or was that something else?

No pot shot just was wondering why your asking so many questions you could look up

So the only land based one(s) capable of reaching Washington DC from the eastern most points on China is the DF 5 since the distance is a few km short of 10500 km. Form the western most points its about 11000km.

That answers your question

The DF 5 doesn't have MIRV capability which makes it even more easy to take out considering that fact that Washington will have the best ABM defenses the US has to offer.

What does MIRV got to do with hitting the white house?

During the cold war the US was given a choice between protecting her ICBM fields in colarado (?) or protecting washington. She choose her ICBM fields thus leaving washington void of defences.

Which ABM systen was it again?

So what was all that about?!!

I dont know. you tell me

Chinese ICBM stratgery has always been self defence. Duing the times of Mao it was always about conventional warfare and nuclear weapons were called paper tigers.

Chinese missile planners during the cold war had two enemies, the west and the soviets. Her first item of defence were tactical nuclear bombs againest soviet armoured formations and went hand in hand for retailatory ballistic missile strikes. From about the 60-70s the soviets were covered because china had nukes to ensure the soviets had second thoughts about attacking china.

Then it was againest america which only then during the late 70s and early 90s did china have a weapon capable of hitting the US continent, but by then the US was friendly towards china and building more nukes was not a priority since the four modernisations were starting to take off and the military was last on the list.

The chinese nuclear plan was always for a counter strike and were going to wait weeks and even months to lanuch another strike. thats why china hid her missiles in caves and were not on full alert (well not all of them). China has over 1000km worth of tunnels in one nuclear missile site alone. she has three of these. This was because nuclear war was expected to invole everyone in the world instead of two parties alone

But now that seems to change since she now has made moblie ICBM lanuchers with lower Preparation Time to lanuch a attack when it gets attacked. I think this is out of the realisation that the russians arent going to lanuch their missiles for no reason anymore and needs to do more damage for the missiles it has.


Im just thinking that the D-5As will be used to target the east coast of america with its longer range while the DF-31 will target the west coast. This i think is a stop gap before the longer range missile comes on line. More missiles along with more warheads per missile with at least half of them moving on the road all day while the others in one of the massive ICBM fields china has got. I think getting rid of the other persons first strike capability has become obsolete now since it is most dificult and any missile that survives will do enough damage to make the risk to costly

Any strike on washington right now would be sucide simply because there is no point nor do we gain anything from it.

I think the figures are about
25-30 DF-5s all upgraded to DF-5A standard. the DF-5 has enormas throw weight and is packed with counter measures like flares and things. It enters and will unleash a massive amount of flares into the astomphere if a ABM system was working. and is rumoured to have been fitted with a GPS system

while there are about 11-13 DF-31s. This is a large amount considering the damage each could do.

Plus the JL-2 missile which is also expected to come online this year if not already in service

[edit on 2-4-2006 by chinawhite]