There is no war on terror

I have to admit Souljah, nice job of taking my point and expanding it by imputing your own views, all the while claiming that it’s exactly what I meant, it’s a rare talent
Like I said before if we could stop terrorism all over the world, that would be great, however if we only manage to keep the US safe, then that's a victory in my opinion. If there is still terrorism occurring elsewhere, that's just unfortunate and tragic.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I have to admit Souljah, nice job of taking my point and expanding it by imputing your own views, all the while claiming that it’s exactly what I meant, it’s a rare talent

Like I said before if we could stop terrorism all over the world, that would be great, however if we only manage to keep the US safe, then that's a victory in my opinion. If there is still terrorism occurring elsewhere, that's just unfortunate and tragic.

You don't get it.

Terrorism is OCCURING elsewhere, because War on Terrorism SPREADS and INCREASES the Attacks. You are not any Safer then before - fact is, that the Chance of an Attack on US Soil has Increased by Half! That is not DEcreasing the Possibilities, but the Opposite.

Iraq is now a Breeding Ground for Terrorists, who are just Waiting in Line so that they can Fight the Evil American Crusaders in their Holy Land. Don't you remember Russian invasion of Afganistan - I bet they also wanted to Liberate the People, but they had to Pull out at the End.

I am sorry to tell you, but you are not Any Safer then before, because the List of your Enemies is getting Longer with every Bomb you drop with intentions to kill terrorists, but instead you kill civilans.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

So basicly War on Terror does NOT decrease Terrorism, it Increases it and not only that, it also Creates a perfect Breeding Ground for Terrorism and for Attacks on American People on their Land.

Is that the reason why the US has not been attacked since 9/11? Seems to me that the WOT is succeeding in keeping the US safe. As for terrorism elsewhere, well, that really doesn't concern me, as long as the US mainland is safe I’m satisfied.

That's a very silly way to look at it. Terrorist attacks on US soil are so rare to begin with, that "four years without a boom!" isn't exactly a bragging point to make! Odds are good that even without the "War on Terror", there would have been no other attacks in this span of time. And like it or not, there's likely to be more at some point in the future, despite the War on Terror "Keeping us Safe".

Fact is, our troops aren't oversees "fighting the people who want to kill us", they're over there fighting people who want to retake Iraq and Afghanistan. If you think Muqtada al-Sadr is going to put some guys on the next flight to Chicago to set us up the bomb, then you need to cut back on the cable news. Ain't gunna happen. The people who are after our nuts on a plate, are the very ones that our president has admitted to not being terribly concerned about. In fact, the Pakistani military has done more to round up and dismantle chunks of al-Quaeda than any American operation has. Presumably because they're more busy supporting their end of an alliance than they are with listening in on the phone calls made by Quakers in Florida.

Ironny, people disagree with a war but rush off to fight it. Or they fight it but claim they follow orders.... remember what happened in Nazi Germany, they followed orders to and look what happened.

Your attempt to portray our soldiers as Nazis is an insult and its very pitiful.
You should be lucky that you live in such times where you can urge soldiers to desert.
I offer a quote from Abraham Lincoln.

“Must I shoot a simple-minded soldier boy who deserts, while I must not touch a hair of a wily agitator who induces him to desert?” -Abraham Lincoln-

You may not know this, but Lincoln is something of an idiot, and likely did more harm to our country than any moonbat could ever claim Dubya is doing. The deserter acts of his own will. Punishing the inciter instead implies that the soldier had no brains to make a cost-value rationalization: Is the value of deserting worth the cost of being hanged?

I don't think he's calling anybody a Nazi here. Looks to me like he's referencing the fact that "I was just following orders" wasnt an excuse for them at Nuremburg, and that precedent holds for other countries, as well.

First - WOT was never meant to be won. Ever. That is why Bush admit that he did not spent much time now on Osama. Of course. Catching Osama could indicate, to the poor stupid average Joe in some insignificant country witch create most terror on earth, that the WOT is at it's end.
Therefore the the first question - no, WOT was meant to be continuous. The money is in the question as well, as the strong grip on power. As long, as the US government can get away with almost anything (Enron, anyone? Hint - biggest Bush campaign contributor...), that long they will wage the WOT.

What as actually won? Well, money for some, death or being crippled for others (soldiers) and intense hate of America around the world. To put it by my perspective - in 1989 i believe that America is defending freedom, giving freedom and that we should take example from this country. In 1999, when the very same America almost killed my friend in Serbia with "humanitarian" bombing, I thought that America become nation of warmongers, crazy stupid bastards and arrogance. And that they should be judged as war criminals and US of A should be sanctioned for what they did. And as the time come and crimes too obvious, either from past or the present (detaining w/o accusations, torture, lies, occupation, WMD usage, not counting dead civilians and so on) I come to conclusion that anyone who fight against America do a service to the future or mankind and that the evil America has to be eradicated at all costs. In short, the more dead US soldiers, the better. And attack against civilians? Justified as well be what US army is doing in the world. Not to mention the US government, witch should be held responsible for what they are doing are elected and keep in power by the same civilians - so they become - same as people in Yugoslavia, Afghanistan or Iraq - legitimate targets.
The more dead Americans, the better. Personally I would kill on sight any US soldier in Iraq and would love to kill any neo-con from Bush administration by the most painful and longest way, as they are deserve.

Quite a shift from my actually pro-American views from the past, back in 1989, right?

And it is my fault that I become so hostile towards America, or it is because of America policy? Frankly, America is beautiful country (where the capitalism did not yet destroyed everything, I mean wildlife and parks - simply beautiful) and there are many Americans that are highly admirable persons and contribute well for the human race.
Yet there are also many that deserve only death and nothing else.

I become even to understand why America has took such dramatic shift from positive country to the worst evil ever - it is enough to watch the news for week and one understand pretty quickly.
Same with the political system - 2 parties, both almost same = no choice. These two also make sure that no-one third one could arise - media, that are payed by the parties and surprisingly mainly owned by jews ( www.realnews247.com... ) make sure of this.

Now back from explaining my radical views, mostly caused by the WOT, to the WOT itself. When we get back to 9/11 event, it show us for the last time how US of A itself killing - itself. Since after the end of WW2, America bombed 22 countries. Back in 2001 are the moments of Yugoslavia bombing pretty fresh, so to be entirely honest, when I saw the video of burning and collapsing tower 1 - the very first thought that come into my mind was "finally". "Finally someone bombed these." So it was not only the jews, who jumped out of joy ( newsmine.org... ) but I was also happy that finally someone - very lightly, tough - bring America back what they are doing for at least last 60 yeas in the world. I must say that I also feel regret for the lives of ordinary citizens lost, but it is smaller regret that the feel of "finally"

Hey, don't hate me, because I'm being dead-honest with you!

Now later I found that I was again decieved. No-one attacked America - they do it for themselves (it become too obvious to hide: www.911timeline.net... - 0911.site.voila.fr... - www.amics21.com... - ax2.old-cans.com... - even US citizens do noticed - www.infowars.com...), so world don't object that they go to Afghanistan to build one pipeline and later to Iraq to control the area and establish 14 permanent bases there.

"...once that oil start flowing and money coming, it is going to be lots of money. Is the second largest reserve of oil in the world. It is not question how much money is there."

-Youssef Sleiman, Harris Corporation

And then it get worser. I study and understand the Leo Strauss neoconservatives ideas as well, as the radical Islamistic views (the shortest way to understand is probably to see the 3 parts of The Power of Nightmares) and I realized that they decieved the public on purpose. On noble purpose to unite them against enemy. It it not necessary that the enemy is real or not. The war bringing neo-cons money and power. It should never ever stop. Even if it means that they actually have to do the attacks for themselves, as happen in Spain and England. (in this light the harsh France memo saying that they are prepared to use even nuclear weapons against any country that carry-on terrorists attack in France make sense)

Now what could be a victory? Well, depends on who are you asking about.
Average Joe tell you that no attacks on American soil are the victory.
Radical Islamists tell you, that death of all Americans are the victory.
Neo-one tell you, that never ending WOT is the victory.

I think that the victory will be, when America become third world nation, unable to spread terror around the world. This will be a victory.

Others seems to think that there will be massive civil war in America, because the neo-cons overpressure the grip of oppression on the people. But I think that the Joe-goats are too lazy for anything like this. They aren't real men either, thanks to their feministic-driven scholar system, so I do believe that nothing like this happen. But maybe I underestimate average Joe?



[edit on 23/1/2006 by trodas]

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I have to admit Souljah, nice job of taking my point and expanding it by imputing your own views, all the while claiming that it’s exactly what I meant, it’s a rare talent

Like I said before if we could stop terrorism all over the world, that would be great, however if we only manage to keep the US safe, then that's a victory in my opinion. If there is still terrorism occurring elsewhere, that's just unfortunate and tragic.

You don't get it.

Terrorism is OCCURING elsewhere, because War on Terrorism SPREADS and INCREASES the Attacks. You are not any Safer then before - fact is, that the Chance of an Attack on US Soil has Increased by Half! That is not DEcreasing the Possibilities, but the Opposite.

Iraq is now a Breeding Ground for Terrorists, who are just Waiting in Line so that they can Fight the Evil American Crusaders in their Holy Land. Don't you remember Russian invasion of Afganistan - I bet they also wanted to Liberate the People, but they had to Pull out at the End.

I am sorry to tell you, but you are not Any Safer then before, because the List of your Enemies is getting Longer with every Bomb you drop with intentions to kill terrorists, but instead you kill civilans.

Do you really want to know why we are safer now? Mostly because the terrorist are going to stop and think(not that they are too rational to begin with) my family, my friends and whoever else will die if we attack any US interest. This is fairly simple, you leave us alone and generally we will leave you alone. attack us, well then, many people will die. I dont know why you think playing mr. neutral will save your rear souljah, fact is if your not a muslim, your their enemy.


Now what constitutes a victory in my opinion, is the annihilation of those responsible for 9/11 and the security of the US and it's interests.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Now what constitutes a victory in my opinion, is the annihilation of those responsible for 9/11 and the security of the US and it's interests.

Good!

I suggest you Start with Annahilating Saudi Arabia, because 15 Hijackers from 9-11 were Saudi Arabian (so they SAY!). But I guess that Bush really likes the family of Saud and they ain't never going to bomb them.

Instead US have bombed targets in Afganistan, Iraq, Pakistan and maybe some other, which we don't know about.

Here isa great idea, America....you wanna remove the threat, then you should seriously consider removing the regime that controls your country, and stop thinking that some people in caves are the threat. Its absolutly ridiculous.

You think men in a cave could carry out 9/11? Use all rational logic here for a change, you really think men in a cave could have NORAD stand down? You think men in a cave can get through FBI, CIA, NSA security? You think men in a cave can shut down the automated anti-air missle defense system that guards the Pentagon? If you honestly can sit there and tell me that you believe that, without laughing, then you got a serious problem.

4 planes in 2 hours? 4 commericial jets, hundreds of people on board, hi-jacked, for 2 hours, and no response. That plane was allowed to come over, come back around, and hit the pentagon without the missle defense; those 2 planes were able to be hi-jacked form hundreds of miles away, and then were able to fly into the buildings, without a single solitary form of defense.

Yet, when Paine Stewert, the golfer, when his little 2 engine Cesna goes of course, for 15 minutes, he's got 10 fighter jets surrounding him in no time.

Umm excuse me? Anybody notice anything odd about that?

Here is what is supposed to happen. When a plane loses contact with the control tower, for any reason, the control tower immediatly notifies NORAD. NORAD is responsible for protecting the skies of North America. Now, NORAD is then supposed to scramble jets to intercept that plane. This all is supposed
happen within a very short amount of time. It has happened many times before, its how it always has worked.....

On 9/11? Nothing! Not one plane scrambled, they said for a week! Then the next week, they changed their story. Dan Rather, without citing a source, went on CBS and said ''CBS has learned that, yes indeed, jets were scrambled to meet the planes, but they didnt make it in time.''

Then they changed their story again. They said that jets actually reached flight 93, the one that crashed in pennsylvania, and that they shot it down before it could hit its target....great job guys!

But wait a minute, according to David Shayler, former British Intelligence agent who has done extensive research on 9/11, says that he has proof that flight 93 was only shot down AFTER it was determined that the passengers had regained control of the plane. Why?

But more important than all of that is this: did you know that 7 of the 19 hi-jackers were found ALIVE after 9/11? Including one who is working for Morrocan air-lines today? Well, I guess if a passport can survive, they can parachute too!

Thats just a small sample of the deceit and outright lies surrounding the
events of 9/11.

Now, 9/11 was used to justify EVERYTHING that has transpired afterwards. ''War on Terrorism'', anti-terrrorism laws, subversion of the constitution.

Bush even said himself that it was alright to crush childrens testicles infront of their parents in order to make them talk during suspected terrorist interrogations.

He also says it is okay to torture unto death, to obtain answers.

This the same kind of mentality we see from serial killers!

Interesting to know, these guys who control your government have mass murdered more people in 9/11 alone, then every serial killer in America's 200 year history. Unbelievable.

Lets take a real good look here......

They say they're having a ''War on Terrorism''; there is more terrorism now then ever before.

They say they're having a ''War on Drugs''; there are more drugs available now then ever before. You can literally buy any drug, anywhere.

They say they're having a ''War on Illiteracy''. Test scores are the lowest they've ever been, and continue to drop.

They say they're having a ''War on Crime'', there is more crime now then there was 10 years ago.

I think my point is made.

Like in Orwell's 1984, these people specialize in ''newspeak''. Everything that says one thing, means another. They flip and turn and reverse everything they say.

The devil is known for that. He distorts, and reverses everything because thats the best way to keep the truth from people. In fact the symbol of Satanism isthe 5 pointed star, reversed backwards.

These people knowingly, consciously, physically worship Lucifer, I am not at all kidding about this. You dont believe me, look forthe proof yourself. Its right out there. (Skull and Bones secret society anyone?)

There is no War on Terrorism. There is only a war on the freedoms of all peoples of the world. It is so obvious, and Im glad to see more and more people are starting to wake up to this fact. You may have the odd-ball here and there who thinks everything is a joke, and the government can do no wrong, but let them stew in their own ignorance.

Keep up the good fight people, and these monsters' days are numbered!!!

(And just because you think you're safe here is no reason to be satisfied. Just because you havent felt the full effects of your governments tyranny at home in America, doesn't mean you never will. And the fact is many people out in the world are feeling the full effects of your governments tyranny. If you can care less for their suffering, and care less about them just because it aint as bad in America, then you are a discrace to the human race. The truth must be told.)

[edit on 23-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

WestPoint23- you leave us alone and generally we will leave you alone.
Now what constitutes a victory in my opinion, is the annihilation of those responsible for 9/11 and the security of the US and it's interests.

That is weird. Since it is always US of A, who start messing with some country and when they get punched back, they scream about attackers, terrorists and so on so far... So the "let be" has to be first preserved from the US side. Let's not forget that the radical muslims get 3 bilions from US of A and 1000 Stinger missiles (above other). And when US of A betrayed them and started supporting the Northern Alliance (less extreme muslims) to kill them, they hit back US of A. Yes, these Freedom Fighters Ronald Reagan dedicated Columbia shuttle to.
So why the screams from two bombed embassy and Cole?



And another thing that hit me is the "security of US interests". Hmmm, wait a minute, you mean the interest, where mere 4.75% world population produce over 25% of all pollutions and they refuse to do anything about it? Or you mean as US interest Iraq oil? Or continue living over what US of A should by borroving 2 billions $ every day from the rest of the world w/o any intention to pay it back? (US of A canceled their national debt in 1933 and sort-of in 1972 by Nixon...)

That interest? Or what interest?

Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest you Start with Annahilating Saudi Arabia, because 15 Hijackers from 9-11 were Saudi Arabian (so they SAY!). But I guess that Bush really likes the family of Saud and they ain't never going to bomb them.

Instead US have bombed targets in Afganistan, Iraq, Pakistan and maybe some other, which we don't know about.

Well, since members of Al Qaeda are pretty much from all around the world, might as well attack Egypt, Libya, Palestine, Austrailia,etc. You mentioned only 15, where do you think the other 4 are from?

Take whatever GW says and turn it roughly 180 degrees and there you will find the truth. No Child Left Behind, Clear Skys Initiative, Prescription Drug Benefit. All these programs are in fact doing the opposite of what they intend. Why wouldn't the "War of Terror" be the same.? Just this decades boogeyman. We must have a boogeyman. No boogeyman ,no fear!....The Neocon's love fear, fear is their friend !

Originally posted by Souljah
I suggest you Start with Annahilating Saudi Arabia, because 15 Hijackers from 9-11 were Saudi Arabian (so they SAY!). But I guess that Bush really likes the family of Saud and they ain't never going to bomb them.

Very interesting point. Is this merely a 'guess' or do you know of some other connection between that royal family and the Bushes? Their prince holds significant shares in NewsCorp [Murdoch is bush supporter].. I have my suspicions but I need more information to dig with.

Originally posted by riley
Very interesting point. Is this merely a 'guess' or do you know of some other connection between that royal family and the Bushes? Their prince holds significant shares in NewsCorp [Murdoch is bush supporter].. I have my suspicions but I need more information to dig with.

I suggest the Following Book:

House of Bush, House of Saud



Bush - Saud Relationship is VERY Close we Might say.

And we must not Ignore the Bush - Bin Laden Familiy Ties either - you know that on the Morning of the 9-11, Bush Senior met with Osama's brother Shafig bin Laden in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Washington.

Now why did they meet?

Could it be that Bin Laden's have several Ties in Washington, even if they are pronaunced as TERRORISTS?

Hey, as long as the Money keeps rolling in their Pockets!

Could it be the Carlyle Group - Bin Laden Business Relationship?

Interesting ey? You're Business Partners are also you're Evil Terrorist Enemies.

Well, it looks to me, that the Bush Goverment is not only of VERY FRIENDLY relations with the crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, even if 15 Hijackers from 9-11 were Saudi. Furthermore, the Number One Suspects and Super-Terrorist-Leaders Osama Bin Ladens family is STILL in business with the US Goverment.

And I thought they do NOT negotiate with Terrorists!

*DOH*

OOOO, thats a bugger isnt it? I wonder if he can explain that?

''Oh, I was just there as a spy, so I could infiltrate and uncover their plans to attack us''

I can just imagine him saying that

Bush is a damn traitor, he is the REAL terrorist, him and his Illuminati buddies.


[edit on 23-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

The war on terror is as real as WWII or any war. One had said that "we agree there is no war on terror," but that is a vague assumption. You may be unfamiliar with the players of the war just as one might be unfamiliar of an NFL player named Hassleback - that doesn't mean he and the game doesn't exist. War is also many agendas, never just one regardless of the name of the war or title granted. There are corporate and arms agenda, military agenda, political agenda, and intel agenda. There are many separate organizations working their own policy and integrating with the whole. The way our government works is by windows of opportunity and timing. If you do not understand this you certainly cannot understand the bigger picture. Each organization has four years to operate and enact policy. Understanding strategic steps and logistic buildup would aid greatly in understanding strategy coming out of think tanks and the White House, and the time which such stratagies can be realized.

In engagement, an enemy who controls vital resources that could violate and subject economic resources is a priority. Logistics is key to supplying military and economic momentum, thus you have Iraq and the pipeline in Afghanistan, which constitutes at a minimum 20% of the worlds oil supply in untapped reserve. What does this have to do with the war on terrror?

Stop the enemy first from cutting off your food supply.

If you did not know the current strategy of fighting terrorism is under a perimeter strategy - push the perimeter or MLR as far out as possible and engage there. There are of course many flaws with this strategy, but yet this allows a temporary course of depleting enemy resources (manpower, financing, tactics) while the rear continues to build logistically and prepare for drawn out engagement.

Who is the enemy?

The enemy can be defined as any entity, religious or otherwise, who will wage war against the United States and her interests. Comparing Al Quaida to those who hit the WTC doesn't matter. The fact remains the enemy is real and will continue to Harrass and Interdict US interest directly on our soil and abroad. If you are unaware who the enemy is, and I assure you Bin laden is merely one player surrounded by millions, then let me pause for a moment for your lack of knowledge.

The fact of the matter is there are many who understand who the enemy and who the terrorists are - namely religious muslim zealots, and will continue to fight such whether you understand the difference or not.