safe deposit boxes censored?

I really have to respond to Muzzleflash.

First of all, the entire basis of your argument does not hold water, since the economy is much, more complex than that. With all the advanced trading systems, market type and human influences, inflation/deflation, supply/demand, among so many other things, I would tend to think the economy is much more than just the stuff we have in our country. If nobody wants all your books cars food houses streets lightbulbs lumber etc etc etc then they don't contribute to your tradeable wealth, maybe your personal comfort and productivity, but whatever.

One very good example of how an economy can crash is by making money, ironically. If your supply of dollars goes up, demand will go down, since they're not worth as much. That's inflation. Should our government ever decide to try to print their way out of a deficit, like our Current Account deficit, and try to sneak it past the world through some shady Hedge Fund trading, well you better believe that's going to catch up to us.

Another way an economy can crash is if a previously cheap, essential good goes up in price, like how energy prices have doubled. Now the price of this good affects the price of just about everything. This can have a very complex reaction in a country's economy. Or let's say another country like China or Korea starts making all the same things we do, well now you got a lot more supply, so demand for our stuff goes down, jobs are lost and all the spending power that came with them.

Let's say really low interest rates and expanded credit make it easy for people to buy homes. Loan officers and mortgage brokers are just looking to make their buck, so they use a little creative thinking and come up with really crappy mortgages, like 50-year or interest-only, that broke and ghetto people snatch up because they want a house damn it. They can afford to commute to work from the suburbs and heat this home because energy is cheap and the dollar is strong.

But all that money printing and trillion dollar debt and competitiveness overseas is really fueling inflation, and crap energy costs just doubled last year! Well these people with crappy jobs are hurting, and got to foreclose Or maybe they lost their job because they worked for Ford or any of the many companies doing layoffs. Mortgage companies can afford to buy homes from the home-builders only because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, two semi-governmental institutions, that buy the mortgage from the company itself and thus the company is able to continue doing business. They're only semi because they only get like a 20 billion dollar bailout from the government if they go insolvent, which is nothing compared to the trillions that they still owe and depend on all these on-time payments to stay afloat.

These two institutions are already groaning under the waves of foreclosures that went up 13% in december alone, and uh-oh, all their accounting fraud isn't enough to hide it anymore, and they implode. Oh crap, now all the derivatives so many major banks are holding cause them to sink with Fannie and Freddie, and you know how Americans will act when they can't get their money out of banks. Don't worry, they're federally insured right? HAHAHAH, the account that insures you is only so big, in fact, you'll be lucky to get a penny to the dollar! Realistically you won't get a dime, as the rich and connected will be allowed to withdraw their savings first, I'm sure.

So it's SELL SELL SELL time. Everyone starts going broke, the biggest consumer in the world can't consume anymore, so those factories in China selling us cars, clothes, and knickknacks got to close, you got tons of PO Chinese rioting and whatever you get the picture.

So you see how an economy is a delicate, inter-woven object? A crash in one sector of the market can cause a crash in so many others these days, because everyone's always buying derivatives or whatnot. You can say energy, free trade, corrupt officials printing money, and this soon to be collapsing climate are our dust bowls. The dustbowl shouldn't have happened anyways, stupid farmers seeding rain clouds with salt.

1. FDR never "seized" anybody's gold assets. Period. He authored an order that people voluntarily bring their bullion to banks and be paid for it at the spot price: $20 per oz. Back then, because America was on the "silver standard," the dollar to gold rate barely changed for decades at a time.

Six weeks after all the gold was collected, FDR "set a new rate" of gold at $35 to the ounce. This is how he financed a bunch of government debt without issuing any extra treasury bills. I knew an old man who was still kicking himself in the 90's for just giving up his gold like that, then having FDR say it was now worth 75% more, once it was is government vaults. But you have to remember that, back then, no one really questioned the government . . . about anything.

Note also that FDR excluded gold jewelry as well as US and foreign coins with precious-metal content.

Response: I have a sack of extremely low-quality "mercury dimes." Beaten to all heck and with no numismatic value. You know what I paid for them? 15 cents an ounce over spot. Basically, they were treated as bullion as far as price goes, but they are technically circulated US coinage, and so they cannot be confiscated without confiscating all cash and collectors' coins. And that would be a cause for civil war.

Response II. Frau Dr. has a lot of "ethnic jewelry" she inherited with belly dancing costumes. It is basically chains, necklaces, anklets and forehead-chains made of small Austrian and Spanish coins from the 1770's. The coins again are low grade, basically priced at bulk, but it is technically collectable and jewelry. This happens to be a very common way of storing/hiding wealth in Egypt, and so is totally in keeping with her culture.

2. I know of absolutely no reason why anyone would ever lock things away in a bank, that is basically closed except for 9 am - 3 pm and whenever there's no "bank holidays." Why would you do this? The only reason I know is to share out documents so that non-relatives can have access. Corporate charters, etc.

Response:

A. Go to home Depot. Spend 30 - $45 and buy a fire safe. Spend another $25 on a good quality bicycle lock and chain. Now take the fire safe home and fill it up. Lock it. It is good for three hours at 500 degrees (identical to the banks 'safe deposit' insurance policy); fine for any housefire that doesn't involve roasting the firesafe in your barbeque grill. you can spend a bit more and exceed the fire rating of your local bank!

B. Take the bicycle chain and tie the box (via the handle) to your bedframe. There. Now thieves won't steal it, unless they also steal your bed. (ours is a kingsize brass sucker, about as easy to move as a fireplug set in concrete.)

Response II:
1. Look through the phone book and find a "self storage service." But not one of the national chains. Find a mom & pop company, something like "Bob's storz-a-lot" or "Sally's Store-o-rama." Pay your $35 (!) dollars a month and rent a unit.

2. Fill it with Christmas decorations, crap from your garage, etc.

3. Be very careful to make sure you don't keep any receipts in your home. Don't label the keychain with the key on it. DONT EVER write down the address of the storage company etc.

4. Pay in cash. Even if you have to pay for the next 6 months in order to rent it. DO NOT ever write a check or use a credit or debit card when doing business with the company.

5. IF and WHEN you think the government is going to go through your belongings with/without a search warrant, or when you think they are about to sieze your firearms, just load your stuff up and take it to the storage unit. Lock it up.

There's basically no way that the feds will ever figure out that you have a storage unit unless you leave a paper trail. Mine is actually not even in my name, but in the name of a corporation I'm an officer for. I have the only key, and I pay for it out of my own cash, so there's no record. The operator of the storage company is a "strict interpreter" of the 2nd amendment, although he has no reason to believe I own guns or store any at his site.

Cops HATE storage companies, by the way. The clerks are usually totally uncooperative, and are very "reasonable" about not requiring home adresses, etc. if you will pay cash. Basically, they want to please their customers, and not the cops.

Yes, the cops have the power on their side, but you have sheer numbers of the american public on your own side. So make the best of it, and hide stuff where cops will never have the leisure time (or initiative) to go looking. Remember, most of the cops in uniform are getting 4 - 5 bucks an hour over minimum wage. They just want to do their hours and go home. So help them. It's easy.

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good to know Doc....I will look into some out of state storage and sniff around.

Originally posted by Nygdan

craig
Maybe what is happening now may be different from what happened back then, but back then the government wasn't ripping these people off.

when paper money that isn't backed by gold is exchanged for actual gold, your investment is now effectively gone.

I think that may have been the whole point of the seizure back then; to switch from the silver standard to gold backed currency. Theoretically, when you take gold from someone and issue them paper money instead, that paper money is now backed by gold.

I am in no way condoning this. I am against ALL forms of government seizure of private property, including gold, silver, property, illegal drugs, and eminent domain seizures.

But, as I noted in my post, the govt. revalued the gold after they got the public to give it up.

That is a dilution of value, not a guarantee of it.

Besides, to be "backed" by gold, the govt. would have to hold it "back" from other uses; to "reserve" it for financial insurance of the paper supply. But that's not what the Fed did. Instead, they used it to underwrite loans for the new deal.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

But, as I noted in my post, the govt. revalued the gold after they got the public to give it up.

That is a dilution of value, not a guarantee of it.

Besides, to be "backed" by gold, the govt. would have to hold it "back" from other uses; to "reserve" it for financial insurance of the paper supply. But that's not what the Fed did. Instead, they used it to underwrite loans for the new deal.

Hmm, interesting points. I have not studied this issue enough to do anything other than give my opinions on it. I wonder 2 things though:

1) Did the rest of the world's gold market fluctuate to compensate for the US government's forced price change on the gold? (If so, then there really wasn't any dilution of value, as the gold would then actually be worth what the government said it was worth.)

2) Did they use the whole value of the confiscated gold to underwrite loans for the new deal, or did they just use the difference in price from the original value of the gold to the re-priced value of the gold. (If they only used the difference in value then technically they did reserve the gold that they issued paper money for and only spent the artificial increase in its price for the new deal.)