Why no terrestrial saucers

Not sure if some of you know, but as far back as the 40s. The Nazis had developed working flying craft that resembled 'flying saucers'. Indeed there was a picture taken by Andreas Epp (one of the designers) who snapped a photo which looks like many photos taken from the ensuing decades.

The Nazis used a combination of Jet propulsion & Koanda effect to operate the flying saucers. Now remember that these craft were manoeuvrable, fast, versatile (no need for runway - VTOL) and could carry a heavy payload of bombs. Also due to their circular design i believe it made them harder to detect by radar. Which is why the CIA was interested in a design for flying saucers back in the 50's/60's.

Now if we were able to build these craft and operate them, which proved to be highly manoeuvrable, fast and versatile (VTOL). Why haven't we seen further development? Did they encounter obstacles/problems which hindered further design? Or have we actually built such craft and have kept them away from the public and prying eyes?

It just strikes me as odd that the Nazis were able to develope and fly these things, yet we haven't developed the concept further.

Anyway let me know what you guys think!

ANY government would probably want to keep this kind of stuff a secret.

[edit on 18-1-2006 by noobius0ne]

(Omg, thats the second time I accidently double posted.)

[edit on 18-1-2006 by Kacen]

Mmm, we already have rougly nine flying saucers at Area 51, including the "sports model". We didn't make `em, but they were part of an exchange between the US government and extraterrestrials back in 1975(?) I believe.

Yes I am aware of the Nazi's flying saucers. If I recall they didn't fly well. There was a video tape of one of the tests and it just keeled over and slowly clunked onto the ground. Not a serious crash at all, but it showed the craft weren't fit for combat operations.

The thing is in theory they were "highly manoeuvrable, fast and versatile " in practice they turned out to be horribly unstable at any real height.

The USAF and US invested alot of effort in the saucer design.


The VZ-9V Avrocar for example. These designs all had major problems with becoming unstable and were scrapped in the long run. There was a good show on the History channel " The real flying saucers" that detailed the history of the design.

I guess some people have looked at the design again such as Sikorsky and their UAV "Cypher"

www.unrealaircraft.com...

[edit on 18-1-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by ShadowXIXI guess some people have looked at the design again such as Sikorsky and their UAV "Cypher"

www.unrealaircraft.com...

[edit on 18-1-2006 by ShadowXIX]

I remember seeing a TV special with the Cypher in it a long time ago. It was a disk-like automated vehicle with a propeller in the center, right? Sometimes it had a camera tripod mounted on top.

Yeah thats Cypher was suppose to be use in tight urban setting were other UAVS would have trouble. It really looked out of this world when you saw video of it. I havent heard much about it in awhile though might have been canceled.

I guess it could be worth looking back at these disc designs since we now have computers which can help unstable shapes fly.

Hello

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The USAF and US invested alot of effort in the saucer design.

The VZ-9V Avrocar for example. These designs all had major problems with becoming unstable and were scrapped in the long run. There was a good show on the History channel " The real flying saucers" that detailed the history of the design.

To me the Avrocar looks like disinformation. Some kind of "See we can't make flying saucers" propagande to fool people and nations, while more serious stuff is being done secretly (see HERE for just an example).

Yeah they did a full segment on the Cypher on the TV show I saw. It was flying around and everything. It could simply land with the camera on top and act as a sentry. I'd like to see how well it would do with some type of armament, it could act as a sentry gun.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The thing is in theory they were "highly manoeuvrable, fast and versatile " in practice they turned out to be horribly unstable at any real height.

The USAF and US invested alot of effort in the saucer design.

The VZ-9V Avrocar for example. These designs all had major problems with becoming unstable and were scrapped in the long run. There was a good show on the History channel " The real flying saucers" that detailed the history of the design.

I don't think that's true for all designs made by the Nazis. There were two projects that i know of carried out. One was the Schriever-Habermohl project, the other was the Miethe-Belluzzo project. I've only just started reading the book Hitler's Flying Saucers. However it does state that although the Schriever-Habermohl was a joint project by two designers, each designer had his own individual design.

Schriever-Habermohl

The Schriever design was unstable because the wing vanes were lengthened. Where as the original Habermohl design had the exact specifications which Joseph Andreas Epp has specified, thus allegedly allowing the craft to successfully fly.

The other project as mentioned was the Miethe-Belluzzo design. Here are the designs they came up with...

Miethe-Belluzzo 1

Miethe-Belluzzo 2

It was claimed by Epp, through a written statement in 1965 by test pilot Otto Lange that he flew the craft successfully for 500 kilometres!

Which brings us back to my original point. If they were able to successfully build working flying saucers, that were indeed fast, versatile & manoeuvrable. Then why stop there?

I don't believe that the VZ-9V Avrocar was a serious attempt at flying saucer design. Even though i try to stay away from 'government conspiracy' theories. I do feel in my personal opinion that it was more of a disinformation ploy by the US Government to throw people, perhaps the Soviets off the scent. If they said this is the best we can do, case closed. Then people would lose interest and stop pursuing the Military on testing flying saucer type vehicles. That's my belief anyway.



[edit on 19/1/06 by Flyboy211]

I can email you a pdf about the USAF flying disc's for the late 60's

(absolutely a awesome article...with pictures)

if you want u2u me your email address and ill send it to you. (its 1mb in size)

Originally posted by Flyboy211


I don't believe that the VZ-9V Avrocar was a serious attempt at flying saucer design.

I might believe that if I didnt know alot about John Frost, the aeronautical engineer and the creator of the avrocar. He was facinated by the saucer design and spent a good deal of his life trying to get it to work because he had so much faith in it. Frost was convinced that such vehicles could offer vertical take-off capability as well as high-speed forward flight. Even after failure after failure.

Then there is also the fact that the project was originally kept a deep secret, This was not some PR move.

Of course there are rumors that still circulate that the military actually did get the Avrocar or something like it to work, accounting for many UFO reports. But I doubt this since if they had any value over classic planes or flying wing designs countries all over the world would be using them now. Things that were uber top secret in the 50s-60s and even decades later are rather mundane now.

There are good reasons why we went with things like the B-2 and F-22 and not a single country on earth uses a saucer design in its military. Russia, China, Europe some other country would have used that shape if it really was better by now the US couldn't hope to hide such a design from everyone for long.

pictures removed...found to be fakes !

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Alpha Grey]

Fake^

Its actually a photo of the D-558-2, its B-29 mothership, two F-86s, and support crew. The image has been heavily photoshoped, obviously.

People go to great lengths to spread disinformation junk....



[edit on 19-1-2006 by Spreadthetruth]

I'm not aware of any reliable photos or film of such successful Nazi saucers. Much of the Nazi saucers mythos is heresay and unsubstantiated "dream" blueprints...and phony photos. Also, there are some pics of Nazi experimental craft missing their wings, in a museum, etc.

After the war, not only would the allies have found such craft...but we also got many of the military scientists as well, so the idea is pretty out there to begin with.

For sure, they had experimented with designs that were saucer-shaped, wing-shaped, etc. So did we, even after the war. Still though, we don't seem to have perfected our own stable versions yet, and it's been attempted for decades. I'm sure the Air Force would just LOVE a stable saucer craft.... If they had one, you can bet they'd use it to dismiss just about any credible saucer sighting that came up. That they haven't done this, is probably a good indicator that we don't have our own yet.... Though who knows, maybe Lazar's loaners really do exist....??? (though slight correction, he believed at least one was shot down, to the damage to it)

ok screw it..I tried !!

No biggie, there are plenty of actual photos and film clips of real USAF saucer attempts...but the pics were nice nonetheless, hehe...

Here are some pics I can assure you are 100% real Alpha Grey

www.laesieworks.com...

Hee hee ^

The very first flying lawn mower!



This is more impressive:

www.wimp.com...

Spreadthetruth - Just a heads up. The History Channel did a series on man made UFO type aircrat. Those images were not or are not part of a "Dissinformation" attempt. They were used to show the scale of the craft based on the eyewitness accounts. The site details the accounts and illustrates them with the images. Obviously that makes it easy for people take images and post them elsewhere as something else.

Of course we're dealing with a double edged sword here. Unfortunately people take images at face value as real. That's why we see a multude of posts asking about the same alien and UFO pics over and over. If we had a system for catagorizing images on ATS, we might be allot better off putting our resources into new material.