al Qaeda's master bomb maker killed in U.S. strike!

You've got to be kidding. Any information we get from that region is bound to be filtered and biased seven different ways, mostly against the US.

Bodies have been moved by a local cleric. There is no local coroners office that we can get autopsy reports from. There is no FOIA. And you ask why the western news agencies' story has changed? Geez!

So, then you conclude that any intelligence gathered from this region of the world is suspect, however, you agree that using such force was neccessary? This sounds somewhat paradoxal, don't you agree? Wester News agencies simply preconcluded that terrorists were killed even whilst intelligence officers could not gather factual data as to the location of these terrorists, as it seems to be at the moment. They even went as so far as to concieve compliance by the Pakistani Government whose very Prime Minister lashed out against.

It's become a matter of veracity, something which the U.S goverment is highly lacking at the moment.

We have absolutely no idea what the US govt has as a database. What you say is just your opinion.

Horrible counter argument. The United States government you suspect has blood samples of these very men? How do you surmise that exactly, or will you just state a vauge generality laced with some patriotic innuendo?

Why don't you give me an answer to my initial and imperative question as to why Al-Zahari is worth more dead than alive.

Luxifero

Originally posted by marg6043
The entire region has been deemed as Terrorist breeding ground, they are muslin and follow Islam law.

dont be so naive.

Originally posted by namehere

dont be so naive.

I have been call many things but naive I have been married to a retired Marine for twenty something years I lost my naiveté a long time ago.

Anyway I would not be surprised that the Pakistani troops has been protecting these people.

Originally posted by Luxifero
Horrible counter argument. The United States government you suspect has blood samples of these very men?

prison records, hospital records, family members, etc, not as hard as you think.

External Source

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistani intelligence sources on Thursday identified three of four al Qaeda members believed to have been killed by a U.S. airstrike last week, though they have yet to recover the bodies.

One of the dead was said to be Abdul Rehman Al-Misri al Maghribi, a son-in-law of al Qaeda second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahri.

Another was Midhat Murfi al Sayid Omer, an expert in explosives and poisons who carried a $5 million U.S. reward on his head.

The third man named was Abu Obaidah al Misri, al Qaeda's chief of operations in Afghanistan's eastern Kunar province.

I know, I know still not enough proof for some of you.
What exactly will it take to convince you that this attack was justified?
Maybe if al Qaeda brodcasts their deaths in a statement that would do.

Perhaps the blood samples and DNA is to rule out anything that be the outcome of the bodies identity.

After all we have to trust what our government tell us, because we will never get to see any of the death after all.

They can even claim Bin-laden was there and guess what many will buy it with not problems.

Al Queda was created by the CIA, and Osama Bin Laden was put in to run it on their behalf. They are still funded and controlled by the CIA.

www.geocities.com...

raenergy.igc.org...

www.rense.com...

shiftshapers.gnn.tv...

www.apfn.net...

But we gotta stop the terrorists! This airstrike killed many of them. We are doing a good job fighting evil!

We have to stop kidding ourselves. Really, people, its time to wake up.



[edit on 18-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

Originally posted by marg6043.

no you havent, age means very little in that regard, if we were targetting them why dont we treat the area as a warzone and occupy it?

wait....you say theres no militants there, that its just peaceful muslims being targetted?

so why is pakistan protecting them if they are innocent and we dont even cross the border

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
Al Queda was created by the CIA, and Osama Bin Laden was putin to run it on their behalf. They are still funded and controlled by the CIA.

no it isnt, stop confusing the mujhdeen with al queda, we trained and gave weapons to mujhadeen, al queda trained its own group seprate from everyone else.

This simply isnt true, the CIA also created Al Queda to help the Muja-hadin fight the Soviets. Go check it out, mate.

[edit on 18-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

LetKnowledgeDrop

it is true, quit spreading such ignorance, facts do no support such nonsense, i have checked it out.

al queda never had a cia connection EVER, this is a lie created by ignorance and confusing facts.

[edit on 18-1-2006 by namehere]

ummm provide proof please.

www.msnbc.com...

Even MSNBC reported about it!

Actually if you read the article you see that MAK was funded by the CIA, and that Al Qaida was created after Osama returned to Saudi Arabia.

www.msnbc.com...


In fact, while he returned to his family’s construction business, bin Laden had split from the relatively conventional MAK in 1988 and established a new group, al-Qaida, that included many of the more extreme MAK members he had met in Afghanistan.

Originally posted by Luxifero

You've got to be kidding. Any information we get from that region is bound to be filtered and biased seven different ways, mostly against the US.

Bodies have been moved by a local cleric. There is no local coroners office that we can get autopsy reports from. There is no FOIA. And you ask why the western news agencies' story has changed? Geez!

So, then you conclude that any intelligence gathered from this region of the world is suspect, however, you agree that using such force was neccessary? This sounds somewhat paradoxal, don't you agree?

Not at all paradoxical. Pre-op intel is usually based upon fact; post-op reporting is nothing more than biased opinion.

Wester News agencies simply preconcluded that terrorists were killed even whilst intelligence officers could not gather factual data as to the location of these terrorists, as it seems to be at the moment. They even went as so far as to concieve compliance by the Pakistani Government whose very Prime Minister lashed out against.

Go back and read marg's earlier response on the Pakistani-American diplomatic relationship. She said it very well. I don't want to repeat her words.

We have absolutely no idea what the US govt has as a database. What you say is just your opinion.

Horrible counter argument. The United States government you suspect has blood samples of these very men? How do you surmise that exactly, or will you just state a vauge generality laced with some patriotic innuendo?

First off, it's not necessary to take what has been so far a normal debate and lace it with inciteful phrases such as "or will you just state a vauge generality laced with some patriotic innuendo?".

Or are you looking to lower this discussion to that level?

Back on topic. Were you aware that DNA identification can be made from family member's DNA?

Why don't you give me an answer to my initial and imperative question as to why Al-Zahari is worth more dead than alive.

Luxifero

The question is imperative to you, not me. While capturing him alive is probably preferable, as long as we get him, that's fine by me.

You seem to think we can just waltz into town with a search warrant, or send Dog The Bounty Hunter in, to arrest him. If it's that easy, why hasn't it been done; after all, there is a $25million price tag on his head?

[edit on 18-1-2006 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by Luxifero

Why don't you give me an answer to my initial and imperative question as to why Al-Zahari is worth more dead than alive.

Luxifero

Well for starters, Dead he can't plan or carryout anymore attacks.

Second he is Osama's personal physician so dead he can't treat him, probably forcing him out in the open or maybe causing illness to claim him.

Third, if the choice is to have Pakistan's military and intelligence forces try to capture Ayman al-Zawahri and us just bombing him into little pieces, I'll take the higher probability of success in bombing him. The ISI still has too many Taliban supporters there for me to trust.

Granted his knowledge of Al Qaeda would be a great catch of information, but without US forces there to surround him totally for capture I wouldn't pass up a chance to kill him.

External Source
In an interview with Bergen, bin Laden’s former chief bodyguard said: “Sheikh Osama gave me a pistol and made me his personal bodyguard. The pistol had only two bullets, for me to kill Shiekh Osama with in case we were surrounded or he was about to fall into the enemy’s hands, so that he would not be caught alive.”

Chances are even if whe had him surrounded his bodyguards would kill him first before allowing him to be captured.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I disagree. While there are many people who could replace him, there are few that would replace him, imo. Living in caves with the full force of the US bearing down upon you is not a life that many educated people would choose.

Not many perhaps but there are obviously enough in the world who would consider it otherwise these organizations would cease to exist due to lack of recruits. Most terrorist leadership is made up of well educated individuals not brainless ignorant peasants anyway so obviously there is a pool of like minded people out there. Also this man undoubtedly had partners, assistants, people with similar abilities and skills, they will step in to fill the void left behind by him.

Granted they may not be as skilled but like I said this is bomb making not rocket science it doesn't take a genius to design a successful ied. Also I am highly dubious of his classification as a "chemical weapons expert", just because someone conducts experiments on animals in a desert training camp doesn't make them an "expert". Al Qaeda isn't exactly renowned for its chemical weapon attacks so obviously his skills as a chemist are being exaggerated. It's no stretch to hypothesize that the next Al Qaeda "chemical weapons expert" will be every bit as "skilled" as this man was.

Also like I pointed out before any contributions this man has made to Al Qaeda have already been made. His training manual is already out there, and he's trained thousands, undoubtedly some of them picked up the skills enough to the point where they can pick up the work where he left off. Killing him know is like killing Oppenheimer after the trinity test kind of pointless. Sure you killed the top researcher but the plans have been made and the infrastructure is still out there to carry out those plans so in the end you've accomplished nothing.

In conclusion I'd just like to point out that Israel has killed countless "master bomb makers" in it's counter insurgency. Yet despite this awesome kill ratio they still seem to have a problem with terrorists and explosives. It seems the various terrorist organizations don't really have much in the way of problems replacing lost members even high value members such as "master bombmakers".

Have your read any of the other articles? Im not saying everything in all of them is true. Im saying read them all, and but the puzzle pieces together.

Interesting.

First the Attack in Pakistan was supposed to kill Al-Qaeda-Number2.

But now that it looks like they missed him (AGAIN!), some Master Bomb Maker will have to DO, right?

There has got to be something to JUSTIFY that missile attack, right?

In no way the News are going to write, that US were Wrong and that they have Killed Civilans Instead.

Originally posted by Souljah

In no way the News are going to write, that US were Wrong and that they have Killed Civilans Instead.

Oh.... Pakistani officials and intelligence said

Midhat Mursi, 52, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri,

.... the man who trained the shoe bomber Richard Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui, as well as hundreds of others

.... and Khalid Habib, the al Qaeda operations chief for Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Abdul Rehman al Magrabi, a senior operations commander for al Qaeda, were killed.

Pakistani intelligence says this was a very important planning session involving the very top levels of al Qaeda as they get ready for a new spring offensive" (source)

There might be a reason, that Pakistan said there will be no compensation for the families of those who have been killed at that U.S.strike...



[edit on 19-1-2006 by Riwka]