Nasa deny alien life again

Hello

All major corporations dealing with ufo secrecy, Nasa included, have been compartmentalized. Compartmentalization is a powerful weapon to keep ufo information secret. Even people working for fifty years at Nasa have never seen anything special because they are not in those specific secret areas (special access programs).

aliens have not landed here yet - it hasnt been televised.
The more i read this stuff, the more im inclined to beleive that the ufo topic will always make money for those keeping this dream alive.

Granted life probably does exist, but bacteria in some peoples minds wouldnt warrent life.

Musclor - So you would agree that all the NASA footage posted on ATS people claim show UFO's are bogus right?
Because the public videos are outside the "Compartmentalization" theory, Right? Since we know that NASA personel are not mindless drones serving the government, someone like Quest would see it and be able to see it out of the Compartment right?

I'll refer to Quests laments on the problem with unfounded accusations and their affect on NASA. Lets learn a lesson, if we can.

Quest - I'm a long time ATSer, but I do still occasionally pop in to these threads just to remind people that when they say "NASA LIES!" they are in effect isolating themselves from me and other former/current NASA employees.

- AND -

Quest- For decades NASA would release data upon request, but evenetually some yahoo published a pic of some rocks claiming it was a face. It all went down hill from there. Suddenly the people with the most interest were the ones willing to put in the least work. Much of the public wanted to play arm chair space explorer without putting in any time or effort into a science education and application to NASA, thus things turned to crap. All the sudden every shadow and spot and unknown event was aliens.

Thus NASA, to keep from becomming a joke and losing funding, had to just start countering all the accusations of aliens with the most logical explination.

We really need to start validating our statements instead of writing theories and unfounded accuations as factual statements. It will benefit the community in the long run.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by nullster]

Originally posted by nullster
Since we know that NASA personel are not mindless drones serving the government, someone like Quest would see it and be able to see it out of the Compartment right?

Don't get me wrong, MOST of the Nasa personel we use to hear about and see on tv is ok. I'm not talking about these people. I'm talking about the corrupted organisms which are acting behind Nasa. There is a complex underground network that people at Nasa are even not aware of, and i'm convinced that the CIA, NSA, DIA are all implicated in it. Some people at Nasa are probably given orders to hide some sensible informations from the public.

Originally posted by nullster
So you would agree that all the NASA footage posted on ATS people claim show UFO's are bogus right?

Definitively not, au contraire. These are the best evidence to me, live public video broadcasts which could not have been sanatized by these rogue organisms. And btw, i encourage Quest to give his opinion on the videos he can watch via the links in my signature.

[edit on 19/1/2006 by Musclor]

Originally posted by exsmokingman
who or what is flying the several ufo's that you have seen? you automatically believe that what nasa say must be true,they wouldn't lie to their workforce? nasa are as trustworthy as a politician.....

I have absoultely no idea since I didn't see inside of them.

They could have ben autonimous, or military (thus humans), or aliens, or extra dimensional mice, or angels, or an alegator named skip. Seeing a UFO doesn't prove aliens, it proves unidentified stuff. For the record, it was a black triangle which seems to be rather standard. Also, based on my existing knowledge an educated guess would be man-made with ion engines.

Also, by "their work force" do you mean Mike the COE or Vernon in accounting? Contrary to what most people think of NASA, it is just a bunch of people with hobbies, pets, kids, and house payments.

Originally posted by Musclor
Hello

All major corporations dealing with ufo secrecy, Nasa included, have been compartmentalized. Compartmentalization is a powerful weapon to keep ufo information secret. Even people working for fifty years at Nasa have never seen anything special because they are not in those specific secret areas (special access programs).

This is true. My trust of NASA comes from the fact that almost all of the association is scientist who have gone to school, looked for truth, put in their duty, and just risen through the ranks. There are departments, some who used to be military (again, NASA got out of that business, I'm pretty sure that was made public). But in the end, I trust people who devote their careers and school time to finding things. People like that will always garner more trust than people on the internet who could be anyone.

Originally posted by nullster
I'll refer to Quests laments on the problem with unfounded accusations and their affect on NASA. Lets learn a lesson, if we can.

Quest - I'm a long time ATSer, but I do still occasionally pop in to these threads just to remind people that when they say "NASA LIES!" they are in effect isolating themselves from me and other former/current NASA employees.

- AND -

Quest- For decades NASA would release data upon request, but evenetually some yahoo published a pic of some rocks claiming it was a face. It all went down hill from there. Suddenly the people with the most interest were the ones willing to put in the least work. Much of the public wanted to play arm chair space explorer without putting in any time or effort into a science education and application to NASA, thus things turned to crap. All the sudden every shadow and spot and unknown event was aliens.

Thus NASA, to keep from becomming a joke and losing funding, had to just start countering all the accusations of aliens with the most logical explination.

We really need to start validating our statements instead of writing theories and unfounded accuations as factual statements. It will benefit the community in the long run.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by nullster]

Nothing can be proven on the internet. I'm here for entertainment and in this case venting what I hold to be true.

Work and the labs (i'm no longer in science) are for doing and proving.

All ATS is for is sharing Ideas, in the end, all of you either belive or don't believe a statement or a link. In the end, it is all trust. I speak of what I believe from what I experience and see with my own eyes. I have no proof of my statements at hand, and what i can prove, I can't load onto the net. Nor can you prove me wrong. It's just talking. Thats what I'm here for.

Here is the best way I can benefit the community....

Go to school.
Get a degree.
Go explore with skills and information.
Question everything.
Judge only what you are involved in, otherwise, you're guessing or trusting.

Me and everyone else on ATS sees NASA from press releases. I also saw NASA as an employee. How would my views be less valid?

Sorry for the sweeping remarks and generalizations though, it was a bit emotional for me, but based on a factual view point.

Originally posted by tiddly54
i dont know if you all are aware of this at all, but ill just say in case

methane is called organic because it has carbon in it.

all hydro carbons are organic molecules, regardless of how they were formed.

i dont know the exact method, but you can make methane in the compleate absense of life

As well as C-C bonded molecules. Not only that, but methane can be found in the atmosphere of some of the gas planets such as Jupiter and Uranus, I would be willing to stake a claim to say it exist in the atmosphere of Saturn as well.

Because it is known that methane can be produced regardless of a presence of life does not mean that the methane on Titan is of this variety. In order to make the claim, you need to present evidence as to why this is. NASA has done so.

I can't help but get the filling the OP made a claim without researching or bothering to think analytically (oh no, not here in the UFO & Aliens forum!). I would recommend to everyone who has read this thread so far to go to their library or to a school library and request the Nature issue. The article linked said it was released Dec. 8th.

Quest, you're just going to have to get used to it.

Since I often post my home ([email protected]) and work ([email protected]) e-addresses, few people doubt who I am, what I do, or where I work. And, of course, people who are innately paranoid, luddite, or both automatically assume that technologists, their organizations -- indeed technology itself - is some sort of bête noir, or an instrumentality Of The Huge And Sinister Secret Plot. So to them, Boeing is every bit as evil as NASA is; and anyone from those Servants of Satan who attempts to use common sense and skepticism is automatically Part of the Huge Sinister Plot.

My esteemed colleague Byrd has addressed the "abiotic oil" arguments in dreary detail. Since methane is a much simpler fraction than oil, the existence of extraterrestrial methane has nothing to do with the observation that 99.9 percent of the oil we see (and burn) was produced by Cambrian and post-Cambrian diatoms.

Yet many of the more vocal Luddites here simply don't want to believe in peak oil, because they don't want to, and will go to astounding lengths and leaps of logic (make that leaps of illogic) to try to show, by whatever means makes sense to them, that such is not the case.

Go with the flow, bud, and put your name in for the next deliveries of the Toyota Prius.

On the flip side of this, NASA did come out officially stating they believe water once flowed freely on Mars....so that was a good step.

Also, some of their comments regarding water elsewhere in the solar system seems to indicate they aren't too set on saying no life out there, just that they are very cautious....and likely using the Brookings Report (or something like it) as a playbook....

Both facts can be true: that methane and hydrocarbons on Titan are non-biological origin, and yet most of the fossil hydrocarbons on Earth are of biological origin.

How can that be? No legitimate scientist ever said that it is theoretically impossible for methane to be produced from non-biological sources or to remain from the formation of the solar system (witness Jupiter and Saturn), but that wasn't the case on

When the experimental evidence and laws of biology, physics and chemistry, say so.

How do they infer that Titan's methane is non-biological? By looking at other facts surrounding it, like the chemistry of the environment and the physics of the planet.

They use scientific reasoning and observable facts. Like how they determine the opposite is the case on Earth.

In Earth's case, there are clear isotopic ratios present in oil and fossil methane which point to biological origins, as well as clear geological evidence and correlation which puts the presence of such deposits exactly where you expect for a biological origin.

The vast majority of commercially important hydrocarbon sources on Earth come from fossilized biological material, mostly plants and algae of ancient oceans. Not dinosaurs, but dinosaur food.

You just need to go to the local garbage dump to see biotic Methane production in action or stand in a herd of Cows or get out a lighter and well you know....

Until evidence is available to support any biological evidence on outer planets, we have to go with abiotic right now and they use physics and chemistry to back this up. We need more probes....

And I'm still at a loss as to why this relates to aliens visiting earth. The original post(who it seems has abandoned this thread after starting it) seems to me to be saying that because of this article NASA is denying ET drops by here every once and awhile. And now some how we're into peak oil. sheez

To Longhair cowboy:-

What the original writer wrote on the first post was the key issue of methane lakes found on Titan. Hydrocarbons such as Methane has been long believed to be altered remnants of ancient plant and animal life deposited. Therefore, finding methane lakes on Titan would mean it harboured life once if not in the present.

However, Nasa has now claim that such methane are not the altered remnants of ancient plant and animal life deposited, thus denying the evidence of life past or present.

While it may be pure speculation that life would be as or more advanced in Titan than ours enough to take to the stars or visit our earth the way explorers would do, there can be no denying with the evidence of methane found on Titan of life.

Some may argue that methane can be produce in a lab. That is correct, we can even grow body parts, such as ears from the petri dish. We are an intelligent species and can create anything in time or back engineer. However, let us not be hoodwinked that labs can produce planet size amounts of anything. And even if we could, it is still the product of intelligent life.

Personally, Titan is an interesting place and data from more probes will give us a definitive answer. However, at the current level, ALL is pure speculation, no matter how trusted or intelligent a source can be.

There is no harm to question any claims, whether one is educated or not. Education is very broad and there is no way one can learn every single subject of Earth. Just because one does not posses a degree in Science does not mean he has no right to question the validity of a premise, otherwise, other proffesionals such as judges, historians,social workers, etc would be termed as uneducated buffoons. What we dont know, we make up by reading from several sources to firm up our understanding.

Man is an intelligent being with the capacity to question, analyse and find a solution. Universities were not started by some professor borned overnight. It is the accumulation and consolidation of data from the common laymen and taught in schools for the further advancement of mankind. It is a continual process as long as man lives, for learning is unending in our infinate universe.

Those of us who have the privilege to have degrees from colleges owes it to the common men, for it is them and their ancestors who worked hard, experimented and gave us the knowledge. We should be humble and not set ourselves apart as some elitist with a huge monstrous ego, belittling the comman men or others who do not have the same degrees as us, and should take time and patience to explain in simple terms, not impressive techspeak, to help others understand issues, irregardless of their beliefs.

I remember meeting a high school redneck once who shared his beliefs on weather and soil. Rather than to dispute him, i sent the data back to my friends working on labs who applied scientific analysis to his claims and found his 'beliefs' true. Rigorous tests were performed and such information were then filtered down to agricultural departments to be disseminated to the industry to enhance agricultural yields.

The days where we accept the words from 'specialist' are over, for we are no longer naive to believe that one or a group of persons holds the key to answers, no matter how trustworthy they are assumed to be. Too much of our trust had been abused by 'professionals'. Just turn a page in the newspapers and you will know what i mean.

well said Seeker. My observation was based on the first sentence of the original post.

NASA are so desperate to deny we are visited by people from other stars

It's my contention this has nothing to do with the article. You see as you say us degreed folk can sometimes come off as a little uppity so I tend to ask my simple self "hey where's the connection?" This so that when I discuss things with others I start from the bottom instead of the top.
In other words what has methane on Titan to do with ET coming here?
And why would it matter what type methane it is?
Could it be ET stops at Titan to top off the tanks before the last leg of the journey to earth?

This is what I have found from the articles so far, and it is quite interesting:

-The atmosphere on Titan is nitrogen dominated and has carbon-carrying gas (both much like earth's atmosphere), but due to such low temperatures (10-20k) the carbon-carrying gas is not CO2 but rather, as you guessed methane, CH4.

-Within a layer of the atmosphere (mid layer) photchemical reactions take place and cause a smog to be exhibited.

-There is a rain of methane nitrogen-aerosols which is very frequent which produces both river, lakes and oceans of methane. (interesting to note was the mention of a dry riverbed)

-The average surface temperature is 70-95k and the highest recorded was 170k. (damn this is a cold body, but what else is new?)

-The atmospheric pressure (at surface?) is about 1,467 hPa, or 14.67 kPa (for reference the atmospheric pressure at surface here on earth is about 101.325 kPa, making Titan's pressure about 7 times less than that here on earth).

-Presence of charged particle species in an ionized layer, pressumably induced by cosmic rays, and the detection of some electrical discharge (lightening).

I did not have much time before class to read the articles and I will need at least an entire week to finish reading the articles (I skimmed 3 out of 5?).

I must admit that when I first heard the story of methane oceans on Titan I was a bit surprised that no mention of biotic proccess, to facilitate such quantities, seemed a bit unusual. But this was based on my understanding of theories that supported the facilitation of water here on earth by biotic proccess. Though I will hold out on the 'life on Titan' stance until I can definitively make such a claim. It will be necessary to carry out more missions on Titan aside from the Cassini-Hyugens in order to determine exactly if there is life on Titan. I feel it premature that one probe can define the methane presence as abiotic, this however does not rule out the presence or rule in the presence of life on Titan.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Frosty]

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Frosty]

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Frosty]

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Frosty]

i dunno if its true or not but the site i found last night in forum reversed speech has a nasa rep talking then the play it backwards and you hear him say how there is life on mars and how nasa is being told what to do or say by a higher athoritie

I have read threads like this in almost every conspiracy forum, and the web is full of such material. But I have always wondered if it makes any sense to claim that NASA hides the existence of aliens. There are several reasons for this:

1) NASA would get more funding if alien life was proved to exist.
2) NASA people that would come forward with alien news would become the most famous.
3) NASA consists of many people. How come noone has ever come forward with real proof?

All conspiracy forums have at least one person that claims he works at NASA. I simply do not believe Quest Seeker to work for NASA; he is just another hoaxer.

As for UFOs, they are Unidentified Flying Objects. They are not alien spaceships.

Well, this guy from NASA say aliens are real.

www.stargate-chronicles.com...



Any news on if or when he will have his book published?

Originally posted by Smoot
Well, this guy from NASA say aliens are real.

www.stargate-chronicles.com...



Any news on if or when he will have his book published?

You gave a linke to 'stargate-chronicles'. LOL.

This is one guy claiming to have worked for KSC and offers no evidence to the existence of UFOs. How surprising?