Born again, then what?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and how do you know if they're legit? you know, some people would fake it...

so what are the consequences of having a "dead" spirit upon death?

are there OTHER ways to avoid these consequences (you know, without the help of jesus)?

Only God knows who is saved and who is not. I agree there are people who fake it. They think they can fool God, but He knows thoughts and motives of everyone. We can look at someone's life and see how they live and get a general idea if they have a relationship with God through Christ. But we cannot judge if they are saved.

If you have not accepted Christ before your moment of death then you are lost and seperated from God for eternity. There is no other way than Jesus.

that seems pretty illogical

that would put gandhi, einstein, other great thinkers, and not to mention many great philanthropists and great humanitarians, all in hell for not adhereing to a certain system of beliefs.

would a just god not allow people to achieve salvation through good WORKS?

do you HONESTLY believe that because gandhi wasn't a christian he went to hell?

i would like to know WHY you believe that the ONLY possible way to be saved is through jesus, because i know many christians that tell me that as long as i live a good life i'm fine in the j man's book.

so why do you believe that only christians go to heaven?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
that seems pretty illogical

that would put gandhi, einstein, other great thinkers, and not to mention many great philanthropists and great humanitarians, all in hell for not adhereing to a certain system of beliefs.

would a just god not allow people to achieve salvation through good WORKS?

do you HONESTLY believe that because gandhi wasn't a christian he went to hell?

i would like to know WHY you believe that the ONLY possible way to be saved is through jesus, because i know many christians that tell me that as long as i live a good life i'm fine in the j man's book.

so why do you believe that only christians go to heaven?

Salvation is not done by works. How would you know when you'd done enough and how many good works cancel out a bad work?

God made it simple enough for a child to be able to understand. There is someone who loved you enough to take your place and take the "spanking" you deserved. Trust what He has done.

You forgot Mother Theresa, Where is she? Only God knows that right now.

I believe because some people who knew and saw Jesus and His resurrection were faithful and passed along this info in the Bible. Down throught the ages the Bible made it through, and generations of people took their turn believing in Jesus. Then my turn came and I believed and hear His voice and see His workings. I personally can testify to that fact.

1 Corinthians 3:18
Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

3:20
And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death



[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]

[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]

[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]

dbrandt, if you live a life of good works, you aren't caring about cancelling out the bad.

i have not devoted my life to any city, state, nation, or deity, i've devoted it to a planet and all the people on it.

if god did create the world, and i turn out to be wrong in my religious beliefs, my devotion to god's creation won't be enough?

seems a bit irrational to me

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
dbrandt, if you live a life of good works, you aren't caring about cancelling out the bad.

i have not devoted my life to any city, state, nation, or deity, i've devoted it to a planet and all the people on it.

if god did create the world, and i turn out to be wrong in my religious beliefs, my devotion to god's creation won't be enough?

seems a bit irrational to me

That's the part that people don't know. The bad doesn't just go away. Something has to be done with it. Lets say you had a ketchup stain(very noticeable and rather large) on the nicest shirt of yours that you own.

You are invited to meet a rather large dignitary(queen). You are told to wear your very best and it must be spotless or you are not getting in. You have no money to buy another shirt but you really want to go.

You want to go but you can't because you cannot do Anything to change your situation and get in. Your out of luck because perfection is required.

For us to see God, perfection(think about this, PERFECTION, total 100% PERFECTION is required. We cannot see God and be in his presence without it. We are covered with sin(stains) and can't do anything to get rid of them. The wages of sin is death.

God didn't leave it at that. He knew we couldn't have sin removed from us. So He came and transferred our sin to Himself. He has no sin of His own so He could pay for ours.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.







[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]

[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]

debrandt......

so what about the yogi who was fortanate to be born into a very devotional family of yogis. what if he has abstained from sex. never touched a drug, alchohol, nicotine or any other kind of harmful sustance. what if he spent his day chanting the mantra 108 times 4 times day. what if in his spare time he studies up on god, and helps the poorand other very saintly stuff. what if he has devoted his entire life to loving god. has led a perfect life has never srayed off the path. your gonna tell me that that is not perfection. that he will cease to live. yet some one can sin multiple times then except jesus as there saviour and they will auto matically go to heaven.......

where is this bad coming from?

you can't honestly believe we are born bad, can you?

i thought god didn't punish for the sins of your ancestors, was i wrong?

are people born blind because of what their parents did?

why can a person who devotes their life to good works not enter heaven? what is stopping them?

Since the term "born again" for all intents and purposes originated with Jesus of Nazareth, it might be a good idea to see just what He meant by the term:

John.3

[1]There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

www.hti.umich.edu/cgi

My thoughts are that Baptism is to be "born again". Yes, at that point all of my sins are forgiven because of Jesus dying on the cross for me.

Baptism will take away the original sin of Adam and Eve and all of my personal sin too.

But, I am human and continue to sin through my life. This is when I can be sorry that I have committed these sins and ask God to forgive me in Jesus' name. When I ask for this forgiveness I also must want to never commit this sin again.

During much of my life I have also had "conversion" experiences where I find myself understanding more and am closer to Jesus.

I do "good works" because this is the way Jesus has told me that I must live. Love God above all else and Love my neighbor as He (God) has Loved me.



[edit on 1/22/2006 by Mahree]

Originally posted by plague
has led a perfect life has never srayed off the path. your gonna tell me that that is not perfection.

The only one who has never sinned is Jesus. No one else has ever lived a perfect life.

It shouldn't make any difference in your behaviour unless you were unhappy and truly motivated to change it when you were 'saved'.

A missionary in India had nearly given up hope in explaining what being born again meant, to a Hindu.
"I must be born again." said the Hindu, finally.
"Yes! You got it. Praise the Lord. I finally got through to you."
said the missionary.
Then the Hindu continued, " and again, and again, and again......"