Born again, then what?

When I say I was born again - I don't mean baptised again (although I have been baptised twice) I mean literally becoming like a baby once more/ understanding pure love and being overcome by it.

What happens next? I've reached the conclusion that mainstream religions are the cause of the problem, not the solution.

I'm writing a book, but I don't want it published - I'm just going to allow my closest friends to read it.

I've met 4 psychiatrists so far and they have all been unable to diagnose me with an ailment. I'm being completely honest with them, I did question my sanity at one point, but I've reached the conclusion that the psychiatrists don't have a clue what to make of me, they're merely trying to help me in any way they can.

I believe in God, first and foremost. I believe in 'agape'/ pride, I believe Jesus saved me, I believe in loving my neighbour more than myself, most of the time.

Is there any point in believing anything else?

hmm...

well, there are many paths to the same destination.

some people find the beyond (or as some refer to it the divine) through belief in specific diety, but others have other ways.

i personally find it troubling that you'd state

Is there any point in believing anything else?

because all you've established is that you have faith that isn't due to some psychological disorder.

you found jesus, good for you, but don't dismiss other paths as pointless.

You need to read a portion of the Bible everyday. It maybe 1 verse or 10 chapters, but set aside some time for this everyday. You are going to be on a lifetime walk with God. So patience is something God wants you to learn and develope.

You should find some close christians to help you in this walk.

Originally posted by dbrandt
You need to read a portion of the Bible everyday. It maybe 1 verse or 10 chapters, but set aside some time for this everyday. You are going to be on a lifetime walk with God. So patience is something God wants you to learn and develope.

You should find some close christians to help you in this walk.

or maybe you can take time to help PEOPLE and do good works? maybe you can spend your time having informed philosophical debate with people of different faiths?

keeping yourself with a close group of christians is the best way to slip into the worst forms of christian extremism. find someone a muslim, a hindu, a pagan, a buddhist, a jew, and people of other religions and foster open discussion.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
or maybe you can take time to help PEOPLE and do good works? maybe you can spend your time having informed philosophical debate with people of different faiths?

keeping yourself with a close group of christians is the best way to slip into the worst forms of christian extremism. find someone a muslim, a hindu, a pagan, a buddhist, a jew, and people of other religions and foster open discussion.

A person must be grounded in what the christian life is so they won't fall for extremism. How do you do that? By knowing the Bible well. Then when other people say something about God you are able to determine if it is correct, because you know what the Bible says. Truth and lies can be distinguished from each other. I am speaking from experience.

I am not talking about becoming a monk on a mountaintop secluded from the rest of the world. Add daily Bible reading, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes a day and they face the events of the day with knowledge that God wants you to know.

Then the good works that are done are for the right reason and the most beneficial to everyone involved.

I believe madnessinmysoul said it best, just be a good person, learn as much as you can about "other" ways.
If you surround yourself with just christians you're not expanding your mind enough to understand all that is out there.
Every religion on earth thinks that they are the "right one", maybe they all are in some small way.
Just keep an open mind and a healthy skepticism.

The rest will fall into place.

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron

snip...

I mean literally becoming like a baby once more/ understanding pure love and being overcome by it.

What was your experience like "understanding pure love and being overcome by it"?

I'm writing a book, but I don't want it published - I'm just going to allow my closest friends to read it.

It sounds as though you are writing a journal documenting your search for truth. Is this so?

by Simon_the_byron: I believe in God, first and foremost. I believe in 'agape'/ pride, I believe Jesus saved me, I believe in loving my neighbour more than myself, most of the time.

I would like to ask you what you mean by " 'agape'/pride"?

To me the word "agape" is "love' defined as follows:
The New American Bible
Saint Joseph Edition
Corinthians 13: 4-8

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.

You have entered the phrase as agape/pride. To me pride is the direct opposite of love. Could you please explain what you meant by agape/pride?

I am not trying to be a "wise guy" here. I would like to understand what you are saying. Actually I am very interested in your experience.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
hmm...

well, there are many paths to the same destination.

some people find the beyond (or as some refer to it the divine) through belief in specific diety, but others have other ways.

i personally find it troubling that you'd state

Is there any point in believing anything else?

because all you've established is that you have faith that isn't due to some psychological disorder.

you found jesus, good for you, but don't dismiss other paths as pointless.

I haven't, in fact I don't believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God. I believe he was the chosen Christ, just as I believe Siddhartha Gautama was also a Christ.

I've read the Dhammapada from cover to cover, as well as many other religious texts. I merely see Jesus as the one true example of perfection. I believe God sends Christs in order to teach humanity lessons in righteousness.

With all due respect, is being 'born-again' merely starting over with a clear slate? Isn't that just another form of avoiding responsibility and consequence for your prior actions? It seems like just an excuse to distance one's self from unfavorable decisions that one has made in the past.

Originally posted by Mahree

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron

snip...

I mean literally becoming like a baby once more/ understanding pure love and being overcome by it.

What was your experience like "understanding pure love and being overcome by it"?
It sounds as though you are writing a journal documenting your search for truth. Is this so?

I would like to ask you what you mean by " 'agape'/pride"?

You have entered the phrase as agape/pride. To me pride is the direct opposite of love. Could you please explain what you meant by agape/pride?

My book is my journal (I've never kept a diary, but my memory is pretty good) of my search for truth.

My experience (10th December 2005) I'd say was terrifying. But it was enlightening at the same time. I realised that the dominant force in the world was love. Pride or vanity is the polar opposite of agape, which is why I said agape/pride, because pride divides love. Pride does not and cannot destroy it, it merely decreases the size of love.

God's love is infinite and cannot be divided, but humans like to divide everything and as finite beings our love can only ever be finite. We cannot comprehend the finite, so we use labels in order to try and define the infinite and understand it. We will never understand it all, but we can grow (as a race and on an individual level) and by growing we can grow into knowledge of infinite love.

The only thing that truly creates anything in this world, be it truth, lies, hate or art is agape. The greater the force of pride working against agape, the smaller agape will become, till the agape or love will be focused on one thing. I reached the point where I was only able to love one thing at a time, but I still wasn't able to love myself, I never have.

The next day I was feeling enlightened. I was able to love myself and everything around me. I was feeling energised and revitalised. It was the first time I'd slept in a fortnight.

As far as reading the bible every day goes, I've been doing that for 2 years - 3 hours a day. Perhaps I was overstraining myself, because the more I searched the less clear everything became. I read the bible in Greek because I am Greek and it makes more sense to me than it does in English.

1 Corinthians 13 is one of my favourite chapters in the bible, it's life-affirming certainly.

Agape didn't exist as a noun until the apostle Paul and his followers created it from the verb 'agapan' which meant to love something. Noone in Greece understood how anyone could have love for everything and nothing until the noun was created in the 1st century.

Great word, if God is agape I'll spend my life worshipping it.

Originally posted by Jonna
With all due respect, is being 'born-again' merely starting over with a clear slate? Isn't that just another form of avoiding responsibility and consequence for your prior actions? It seems like just an excuse to distance one's self from unfavorable decisions that one has made in the past.

Yes. You are correct.

But if your decision was to be molested as a child and beaten to a pulp then surely starting over with a clear slate is desirable?

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
But if your decision was to be molested as a child and beaten to a pulp then surely starting over with a clear slate is desirable?

I don't see how that is any child's decision for such things to happen, but, from a psychological aspect at least, isn't it better to find a way to deal with such things instead of attempting to repress them, to pretend they never happened?

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
But if your decision was to be molested as a child and beaten to a pulp then surely starting over with a clear slate is desirable?

And besides, the thing the child needs to understand that it was not him/her that was at fault in this sort of situation. That they are not the one to blame for the action. A crime was commited against them and not because they deserved it.

Sorry to go off topic, but I just wanted to make a point.

So far this is a most interesting thread. Many differing views presented with honesty from the posters.

I don't believe in the phrase "born again" in the way it is generally used. I don't think that it wipes out all that came before. As someone has said we need our prior mistakes/experiences to build on in making decisions for the rest of our lives.

It is my belief that we can "start over" by recognizing the mistakes and bad choices we have made and ask our Lord God for forgiveness, in Jesus' name. This would be my choice because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the cross that my sins may be forgiven if I am truly repentant and honestly promise not to commit this sin again. Unfortunately, I am human and despite all good intentions I often fail to keep my promise. But, you see, I do keep trying anyhow.

Simon, my reading of the experience you call "born again", sounds like what I would call a conversion experience. I have had many of these in my life. Almost always they come unexpectedly. It is like finally "seeing" clearly with a spirit that is soaring toward the heavens.

I cannot speak to the case of the molested child that was cited. That is one experience I am thankful to have avoided. So I cannot know the later years results from the pain and hurt caused to this child.

Originally posted by Jonna
I don't see how that is any child's decision for such things to happen, but, from a psychological aspect at least, isn't it better to find a way to deal with such things instead of attempting to repress them, to pretend they never happened?

Well, dealing in love is so much better than withdrawing I agree. I'm confronting my demons by confronting them with love. It's hard to explain, but let's just say your nonsensical ravings make more sense to me than you may ever understand.

I feel born again. I wouldn't say it's a clean slate necessarily - I haven't changed, I've just realised my self is a product of others.

We are a whole.

Once we realise that we stop becoming a 'hole.'



[edit on 18-1-2006 by Simon_the_byron]

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
let's just say your nonsensical ravings make more sense to me than you may ever understand.

Ya, every once in a while something remotely intelligent falls out of my head. I just try not to make a habit of it. The only thing worse then other people taking you too seriously is taking yourself too seriously.

Originally posted by Jonna
With all due respect, is being 'born-again' merely starting over with a clear slate? Isn't that just another form of avoiding responsibility and consequence for your prior actions? It seems like just an excuse to distance one's self from unfavorable decisions that one has made in the past.

This is what being born again means. Man is a 3 fold being, body, soul and spirit(the desire and ability to know and want to know God and His ways).


When Adam and Eve disobeyed God their spirit died. Since then everybody has been born with a dead spirit. The only way that spirit is brought back to life is through Jesus Christ. When faith is placed in Him alone for salvation the Holy Spirit comes and lives in that person and that person's spirit is brought back to life(born again).

Before the cross the Holy Spirit came upon people for a specific task and time. Now after thr cross once the Holy Spirit dwells in a person, He will never leave.

Some people make being born again into a complicated unknown mystery, when it menas the rebirth of someone's spirit.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Jonna
With all due respect, is being 'born-again' merely starting over with a clear slate? Isn't that just another form of avoiding responsibility and consequence for your prior actions? It seems like just an excuse to distance one's self from unfavorable decisions that one has made in the past.

This is what being born again means. Man is a 3 fold being, body, soul and spirit(the desire and ability to know and want to know God and His ways).


When Adam and Eve disobeyed God their spirit died. Since then everybody has been born with a dead spirit. The only way that spirit is brought back to life is through Jesus Christ. When faith is placed in Him alone for salvation the Holy Spirit comes and lives in that person and that person's spirit is brought back to life(born again).

Before the cross the Holy Spirit came upon people for a specific task and time. Now after thr cross once the Holy Spirit dwells in a person, He will never leave.

Some people make being born again into a complicated
unknown mystery, when it menas the rebirth of someone's spirit.

and how do you know if they're legit? you know, some people would fake it...

so what are the consequences of having a "dead" spirit upon death?

are there OTHER ways to avoid these consequences (you know, without the help of jesus)?

or maybe you can take time to help PEOPLE and do good works? maybe you can spend your time having informed philosophical debate with people of different faiths?

keeping yourself with a close group of christians is the best way to slip into the worst forms of christian extremism. find someone a muslim, a hindu, a pagan, a buddhist, a jew, and people of other religions and foster open discussion.

I agree, go out and try to meat other people of other religions. Unite the religions under the name of one God.

Others may say read the bible every day... I'm not going to say other, I believe the Bible holds knowledge but like many that recomend reading it everday, that take the words literally, fact for fact, I wouldn't recomend. If you try to take the bible as pure fact your only going to end up confused and have to go to a psychiatrist. If the Bible were the pure word of God then why would the authors of the books give their names. The gospel according to Luke, instead of the Gospel according to God. I'm not going to say that God (the universal spirit) didn't influence them, but I am also not going to say the bible is pure fact. In fact I would agree that much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament (the Jewish books) are ancient stories.

Take the Bible how ever you would like though(don't rely on your preacher to decide what you should believe), its up for you to decide, thats why you have free will. Do this, but don't forget to understand that other people have other beliefs and you need to respect that in the name of good.

Nicely said Coolaid!