POLITICS: Rice Offers No Apology for Airstrike

from spliff4020
While performing a miracle would definitly get MY vote, no. Not miracles. Every single person in charge of this war, is an elected offical who can be removed. I assume that most of them like their job and want to keep it. A good way to do that is keeping the public happy. There are a million different indictments brewing now because WE THE PEOPLE aren't content to sit still. We rattle the right cages and things happen.

So now we're supposed to run this war based upon public opinion? Donald Rumsfeld ( not elected, btw ) has been scrutinized for not listening to the advice of his field officers regarding how to run the war. I doubt if having the public vote on an airstrike would be efficacious. I doubt that having the public decide how to handle the aftermath would work any better.

This is an instant information society. If your gonna drop bombs, you better be sure your hitting what your aiming for. The WW2 references are old and boring. We dont have to carpet bomb anymore. We can read license plates from space. If there was a change in plans, then that intel that was watching so closley should have picked it up.

We did hit what we were aiming for. The house we aimed for is a dirt pile now. It just so happens that Zawahiri wasn't there.

As far as reading license plates from space, ever wonder why we just don't park a camera on Z's turban and watch his every move? Think about that one for a while...

quote:
What you might need to understand is that these people hate you. If you sit quietly, they will hate you. If you say you are sorry, they will see you as weak and hate you. They hate you. They hated the flight attendants and cut their throats, even though the attendants brought them a cup of coffee and a smile a few minutes earlier. It makes no difference.

And what YOU need to understand is that hating them will bring nothing.

If that flight attendant were your daughter, I doubt you'd be so nonchalant about her death. Hating them may bring nothing, true. But adding a good dose of killing the scumbags to the recipe definitely will bring results.

Finally, the fact that this village harbored terrorists seems to have been forgotten.

souljah said

If I remember Correctly, Afganistan, Pakistan
NOR Iraq Attacked United States.

Their governments did not directly attack. However, the Taliban
government of Afghanistan and Saddams government of Iraq
both aided and pushed the terrorist agenda to harm us.
The terrorists who use those countries as a base attacked.
Also, the Iraqis deserve to
be liberated from Saddam. In WWII Germany didn't attack
America, but we helped liberate the Jews from the concentration
camps and we helped liberate France and the other countries
under attack. It was the right thing to do then, and it's the
right thing to do now.

If I REMEMBER Correctly United States Attacked Iraq TWICE - they did not attack United States.

Nope. You remember wrong. Gulf War I had Iraq invading Kuwait and
America kicked them out of Kuwait. Our troops, and the troops of the
coalition, went into Iraq only far enough to get them out of Kuwait for
good. Then the UN mandated that the troops go no further. Too bad.
If the UN had allowed it, Saddam would have been taken out 15 years
ago and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people wouldn't
have died.

So, who is the AGGRESSOR and who is the DEFENDER?

Saddam was the agressor in both wars. He took over Kuwait in the
first and he mass murdered Iraqis and Kurds in the first and second.
We are the defenders of Kuwait and the defenders and liberators
of the common Iraqi.

This attack in Pakistan WAS an ACT OF TERRORISM

Nope. It was an act of self defense. Known terrorists were
gathering - at the invitation of those in the building - and these
terrorists had openly and boldly declared war on America and
non-muslims in general.

from Benevolent Heretic
We have no idea if there would have been any more attacks if we had done things entirely differently. Most people fall for this defective logic (as you have) and that's one thing that keeps the war going strong.

I could hang garlic all around my house and claim that it keeps the bobcats away! Same logic.

No it isn't the same logic. Unless, of course you had bobcats around your house before you hung the garlic.

from Souljah If I remember Correctly, Afganistan, Pakistan NOR Iraq Attacked United States.

Irrelevant. In THIS CASE ( which is the topic under discussion, btw ), the village in Pakistan was harboring terrorists. Which makes them a valid target, whether you like it or not.

What exactly do you mean by harbouring?

jsobecky:
No it isn't the same logic. Unless, of course you had bobcats around your house before you hung the garlic.

I had a bobcat come into the front yard, yes. He came within 10 feet of my front door. There hasn't been one since I planted the garlic in my garden. It's the garlic, I tell you!

You don't think I'd use faulty reasoning, do you?

What exactly do you mean by harbouring?

Yes, what exactly is 'harboring'? Thanks intrepid, I've always wanted to know that.

How more people in middle east countries has to die so we the mighty Americans feel exonerated for the ones than die in our soil?

If they are just a few and on the run like our administration keeps feeding us why so many are still dying in the middle east from the results of US intervention in that area?

How many has to die so we can claim victory of killing one that is the guilty.

What kind of society we has become, are we the liberators of the true terrorist now.

Because just like 9/11 Terrorist came into our nation and killed Innocent Americans.

Now we are the Terrorist going into another nation looking for the guilty ones while killing innocents.

Can somebody tell me the logic on that?

Or you all believe that every single Iraqi and every single Afghanistan and every single Pakistani that has die is an Al-qaida and a taliban terrorist and the ones that that where involve in 9/11.

This inlcude the children caught in the struggle.

What in the heck is going on.

marg-

I think there is a large segment of this society that are Toby Keith lovin, flag wavin, ignorant rednecks who shroud themselves under the flag. If you dare speak up against war, they call you an American-hater.

It all comes from that Rush Limbaugh mentality that says if the republicans thought it up, ite genius, and if the democrats or anyone else speaks up about it, they are liars who hate this country.

I think its easy for weak-minded rednecks to subcumb to that thought process. You want to be included. Not exluded. Plus when 90% of your opinion is formed by the "EIB" network, you are easily manipulated.

Rush is a liar. People who follow him are weak minded. I completley agree you, Marg. Some people need quit draping the flag across their shoulder on this "noble crusade" and start thinking of alternative means.

Exactly what I was thinking Marg. What were they guilty of, aside from living in an area that they probably couldn't have moved from? Harbouring terrorists? From what I read in the article it's like the "wild, wild west" in that area. Nowhere did I read that anyone was "harbouring" anyone. This type of thinking seems more of a justification for killing these innocent people more than anything else.

BTW, have any of the names of these people been released or are they just nameless, faceless Muslims that were killed?

intrepid--

MSNBC is reporting this morning that, low and behold, we DID kill some terrorists there. See? We did a good thing! Or as I see it, just another piss-poor back pedal on our governments behalf to cover their rear ends.

Now Rush can go on the air today and say "SEE!!! You PEOPLE need to understand that what we are doing is right, and the DEMOCRATS hate this country and want it fail at this grand war".

Doesnt Canada got a bunch of oil up there? You guys better watch out. You never know when we might find a bunch of WMDs up there....

Marg this is war. Dont expect that women and children would not be hurt at all. But then we do have terrorists who are don't wear uniforms and dont fight America in empty areas where there are no civilians. Doesnt work like that anymore. Why you think the terrorists dress as civilians? Because they know America won't just go bomb everybody to hell. They know we are hunting down and looking among the fish for the bad fish. But remember that even the most advance bombs dont discriminate who is innocent and who is a terrorist. Wars are not clean surgical strike. Its plain dirty and civilians will be caught in the crossfire, since terrorists chooses their battlefields in urban areas. We fight where they are at. Should remember that many of these tribes are pro Taliban and Al Qaeda. They even sent thousands of their people to Afghanistan to fight the American led invasion of Afghanistan as America was preparing to execute its threat to invade Afghanistan if the Taliban did not turn over Osama and destroy the camps which the Taliban refused to do. Many of those tribesmen were force back to the Pakistan tribal lands with their tails between their legs. Many did come out of Afghanistan alive. Not to mention how the Afghans feeling liberated from the Taliban and Al Qaeda decided to take on Pakistani foreign fighters. Its a tragedy for women and children to get killed, but thats war. Osama and Zawahiri should be heading to American forces to fight and die for their Jihad instead of going into Pakistan and hide somewhere. Many people always criticize the Bush admin for not aggressively going after Al Qaeda in Pakistan because of safe haven and angering the population because of political situation. When something like this happens, those same critics now saying the Bush admin is starting a war with Pakistan. Go figure.

I understand that terrorist need to be caught and deal with, but the tactics used are damaging to us.

We are American people that caring we pour our pockets to the needy in any part of the world.

What kind of impression we give when our government does what it does in our names, how can we be so generous and caring but at the same time so cold blooded.

If the government was so into getting the dirty scoundrels in Pakistan all they had to do was to target any convoy that was coming into the area.

It makes no sense.

Doesnt Canada got a bunch of oil up there? You guys better watch out. You never know when we might find a bunch of WMDs up there....

You know spliff I was thinking just that this morning. As with Pakistan, we're allies with the States. Let's look at this differently. The CIA get's some hard intel that Zawahri is in a building around the intersection of College and Bathurst in Toronto. The blow the thing up. In the process killing Mr. and Mrs. Brown, an elderly couple, the Ames twins, Syed Mahood, 2nd generation Arab studing archetecture at the Uof T and Elders Smith and Graves, 2 missionary Mormons spreading the word, undoubtable Americans.

These people are innocent, well maybe not that Mahood fellow, have to look into that guy. Oops, seems like we have our man, at least enough of a hook to justify killing the rest.

Oh but that would never happen in Canada. OK, what makes it alright in another allies country? Because it's a Muslim country? BTW, are the dead still nameless and faceless? Sure makes it easier to swallow doesn't it?

Edt to add: The Pakistani people are now calling "death to America", from what I've read here, were they doing so before the deaths of their countrymen?


[edit on 17-1-2006 by intrepid]

MSNBC is reporting this morning that, low and behold, we DID kill some terrorists there. See? We did a good thing!

Oh, thank God! I wonder if Pakistan reporting that 'militants' died in the attack has anything to do with the people of Pakistan being furious and protesting...

"Calm down, people, bad guys were killed, too"!

LOL I mean, if living in a poor desert villiage where terrorists sometimes hang out counts as 'harboring' them, then it's not unrealistic to wonder just who is and isn't a 'terrorist' according to 'Pakistani authorities'. ("Calm DOWN people"! )

Or as I see it, just another piss-poor back pedal on our governments behalf to cover their rear ends.

Most likely the case. Too bad we can't believe them in a boy-who-cried-wolf sort of way. There may have actually been terrorists killed, but can you believe what the government reports?

How blinded does one have to be to just believe what the government spoon feeds these days after the reputation they have?

[edit on 17-1-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

intrepid--

From what I undertand, no. The paki's were pretty cool with us. Maybe they know something we dont? Naaa...

Interesting question you posed as well. It was similar to mine. I said "Say China is looking for a suspected terrorist. Suppose they find him hiding out here. Can they bomb the building that they think hes in?"

I love this country but I am also sickened by alot of things we do, and actually understand why the majority of the muslims hate us. This is pretty recent. As far as I knew, we were good up till about G.B. the first took over. Once we did the Saudis that favor with the whole "Kuwait/Saddam" thing, things started to fall apart. Hmmm... Wonder why?

spliff, I think you need to see that the Muslims have been hating America since the creation of Israel. Relations was never even good even during the first Bush admin. Of course we fought Muslims centuries ago.

deltaboy--

I cant remember America fight the muslims at anyother time than now. And even if they hate us, so?? Who cares? Hate away. Protect the home front, pay more attention to phone calls from flight schools in Florida and less attention to white stains on blue dresses and you might make some progress.

I often wonder what their opinions of us would be, if say starting about 20 years ago, we gave them food, medicine, water and money. And if we did it in a non-discriminatory manner. Just equally distribute our help wherever needed. Do you think there would still be this raging hatred of us? I doubt it. I've yet to see anyone's opinions changed based on how many bombs we've dropped on them.

deltaboy

You hit the nail on the spot, yes we have been dealing with terrorist for a long time, but many don't even know what start it all.

Thanks for the tip it has to do with Israel becoming a nation, but also with the findings of oil in the area.

We can not forget the British splitting the entire region with disregard of tribal borders.

The lands in the border of Pakistan with Afghanistan are lawless land like Intrepid said.

But this people are far away from any modern means they are tribal groups rule by clerical leaders.

They harbor "Terrorist" because most of them are their own people fighting for their own cause.

Just like BH said, they don't know any better but what their leaders tell them.

How can you be harboring a "Terrorist" that happen to be your father, brother or son.

In your mind eyes is not a "Terrorist" but a family member fighting but what you believe is right.

Just like Americans that are for the war in the middle east that believe that US is doing the right thing.

Can you see the point?

Same reasoning different countries, different believes and different religious views and opinions.

world peace should be on the table this year.not invade this and invade that.people of every type of race needs peace.peace needs to be into our blood this year.who cares about war i dont.think about peace for those who wish to kill.just one minute everyday think about it.think about how you could be a better race.better people more intune with themshelf instead of out of control and full of fear.dare to dream dare to not partake into a wave of fear.rice be nice and stop the hurt.stop what your doing to those who do not have a face.the faceless are people too.faceless acts of fear will only bring more groups of faceless fear.world leaders need to direct the faceless people out of the way of fear.if anything they can do this right.peace is the word make this year the year of peace the year of banding together to take care of the sick and dying planet.....

Wow! What a shame that these innocent people died! It seems that the provincial government says that at least four foreign terrorists died in that attack.
Such a loss of innocent lives. I'm sure that they were totally unknown to the people of the little community.

www.foxnews.com...

By the way, you wonder about my tone of voice? You can't see, no matter how many times you are proven to be in error, that you are in error. I'll change my tone when you change your ways of error.

[edit on 17-1-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Benevolant Heretic said

if living in a poor desert villiage where terrorists
sometimes hang out counts as 'harboring' them,

They don't 'sometimes hang out'. They have their bases
throughout the tribal areas. They are constantly there.
Also - in this case - the bad guys were INVITED to be in that
building. The people who did the inviting knew darn well
who and what they had invited to dinner ... and they knew
the consequences of being caught.

also These aren't just 'poor desert villages'. They are war
grounds full of border crossing terrorists who violate laws
in many countries, including Pakistan. Pakistan is afraid to
send their own law enforcement people into the area, that's
how deadly it is. 'just' poor desert villages my back end...

How blinded does one have to be to just believe what the government spoon feeds these days after the reputation they have?

Right back atchya'. How blinded does one have to be to just believe
what the radical eurocentric anti-Americans spoon feed these
days ... considering their radical deadly agendas.

That can go both ways BH.