Beyond AI today! "The Beast"?

Originally posted by Frosty

Originally posted by xeroxed88

Originally posted by Frosty
Figures. Stop taking whatever drug it is you are on.

Gee, thanks for the insult, Frosty. You have no idea how much I despise drugs and how much they have affected my life. Watching the people you love pump themselves full with drugs isn't easy. I suggest you watch what you say to people in the future.

Idiot.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by xeroxed88]

You posted a rather stupid blog that suggested because you cannot find science news in 'People' or 'Entertainment Weekly' it means that there is a coming apocolypse that will be carried out by mice brains in pitri dish playing video games. What are thinking? THis material belongs in BTS under 'Interesting Webstites' or something like that.

What are you talking about? 'People', 'Entertainment Weekly'? What kind sof drugs are you taking? Whre does it say anything to that effect? Quote Please.

For starters its rat brains, not mice. Not much of a difference, but it goes to show how much you know, or at least how well your neurons remember information. You should have seen the part about how they're now humanizing rat brains, but you're not one to fully check things out before bashing? It actually goes well beyond that...

-IgnoranceIsntBliss-

You should try making make your letter more concise. I imagine that this gentlemen you are writting to reads dozens of pages of material everyday prepared by other doctors, researchers, proffesors, etc. A lot of your sentence structure is poor.

Hey it's not perfect, I have less time than you could imagine, and nobodies paying me to do it. Ever read a science journal? Their sentence structure is often poor too, science people usually dont stress about anal grammar perfection. I would take your critism as constructive, but your tone in this thread makes it seem beyond constructive, insulting.

The questions you are seeking can be found on many websites and within many books. You should explain better why he is the best person to answer the questions. Who have you studied under, who's work have you researched, how did all that compared to Dr. Koch and his work? Make him want to answer the question since this is a personal letter.

Which webisite and/or books directly answers questions like that? I've spent months scouring thousands of websites, books, science journals, etc. I have STACKS of printouts, with notes and highlights all throughout them. No article that I've found addresses those questions directly.

Koch's publications, listed at his lab:
www.klab.caltech.edu...

You talk about 'my research' but you never present 'my research'.

See above

2. Intelligence

The first question, to help my understanding, is approximately what percentage of the human brain is devoted to motor functions (not including the cerebellum and cerebral trunk) and the combination of our senses?

That is not your first question and the answer to such a question is mroe than likely one that varies and information leading to an approximation can be found in numerous books and journals.

Ya, I had to do alot of restructuring of that letter before i was finished. It should be, but the problem with this field is there are probably tens of thousands of science journals and such on the brain/neuron/cogno/etc/etc/etc, and its a more daunting task than you would think. To you it may sound nice and easy to research the brain, neurons, history, recent advances/discoveries, NBIC(Nano-Bio-Info-Cogno) convergence, etc. One path leads to countless differnet terns and tehcnologies, that overlap and get you way off course. Studying NBIC involves studying a convergence of all forms of technology. During months of nonstop research, I havent found a document directly addressing that issue(alone).

I think what you need to do is ask him something specific, like whether he ever encountered a flow of neurons that displayed Gaussian Curve characterstics. Your questions seem to generic and very philosophical.

I dont see what GC has to do with the capabilities of the massive brain array theory. Go read some science journals, the scientists have every intention of "taking some artificial out of AI". Those questions should have been easy for him to answer. Koch specializes in cognitive science, those are exactly the questions that should be directed towards him. I'd have a different set of questions for scienitists in the other neuro related fields. If Those are critical questions to the overall theory, specifically in regards to if it would have "consciousness" or not, and also if I have the proper understanding, of at least what one of the top guys in the field thinks. I reallt wasnt trying to do a huge "thesis" full of references in an email with important questions, and with a guy lke him I shouldnt really need to.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Originally posted by xeroxed88
All this reminds me of the films, Terminator and The Matrix. The whole, machines becoming too advanced, etc. One day, they will become too advanced and will be the destruction of the human race.

[edit on 21-1-2006 by xeroxed88]

I disagree, if anything were to distroy the human race it would be by our own hand. Assuming that the advent of Artificial Intelligence will be the death of us all is just giving Hollywood hacks too much credit. You should stop taking movies as the holy gospel when it comes to future technology as writers usually use Technology gone amuk as a convienient plot device as it means they don't have to come up with anything creative, thought provoking or philisophical.

Those movies arent even as "scary" as it will be. I have a scifi movie rebuttal coming up. In short Martix was off, because the machiens wont have to experiement on us after the war, to know how to implant us, we're doing that work for them. Theres a major national database, that every lab in the US posts all of their findings in the NBIC arena. All of that info is right at DARPA's fingertips,a dn theyre gungho about cognitive intelligence. DARPA is a real world skynet, but the skynet judgement day wont happen, not will the matrix machines implant the human with huge probes after the war. The people will have NBIC implants before all of that, the people will be in the society collective(governments goal, i have quotes) and will be slaves just the same as the robots.

Judgement Day will come, but it wont be the system nuking us. It will come because the people in the collective will worship the collective, the brain network will become "god". At the same time people will be taking evolution into their own hands with their "posthuman" goals. Humans will lose all dignity, and would be stomped out. That is what will cause Judgement Day, that is why He will return.

These mad scientists need to understand that even if their evolution THEORY (it is GOOD, but its still just a theory) is absolutely 100% correct, it still doenst disprove God, and it doesnt give us the right to take evolution into our own hands. The problem is that the outcome will be humans who cannot possibly compete, either physically or mentally. This means humans will become the lower class, a complete loss of dignity. Many will submit to the collective, but ultimatly it will be the truely religious aithful that refuse the system, and get stomped on. The "collective" "singularity" WILL come, theres no stopping it. The things I just mentioned WILL happen. The question is how far along will He allow it to go before intervening?

Take A.I. for example. The Book and the Movie are totally different and the latter was re-written to play on our fears of the unknown which in effect boosted ticket sales as the average movie viewer don't like to think about the deep philsophical questions on what makes Humans sentient. You want a real cerebral flick about AI watch "Ghost in the Shell". Much more realistic then Arnie coming back in time to kill Sarah Conner. The Matrix was sort of more realistic if you watch the Animatrix which pretty much says that WE started the war via persecution not the other way around.

People thought when PC's first came about that it would replace the Human brain and it would make unemployment a huge problem. Well that didn't happen, infact the opposit happened and there is lots of reasons to believe that the same will happen with AI.

Also I highly doubt AI will EVER outperform Biological Sentients as Intellect Augmentation seems to be progressing at a faster pace then AI. The Former is primarily a Hardware problem and the latter a Software problem which is inherintly much more difficult to figure out.

The brains may be "grown", but soon enough they will be able to fully interface them(they're close now), and large arrays of them. While this could count as artifical, its essencially Real-Intelligence. The problem with AI and silicon, is for every hour of hardware engineering you get 24 hours of software engineering. These brains eliminate that figure. There is software needed to effectively handle the interfacing, but not to do the thinking. Considering al that, once they get the interface perfected there will be almost no need for developing software AI to even half of the extent they have since they thought of AI.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by sardion2000]

Those movies arent even as "scary" as it will be. I have a scifi movie rebuttal coming up. In short Martix was off, because the machiens wont have to experiement on us after the war, to know how to implant us, we're doing that work for them. Theres a major national database, that every lab in the US posts all of their findings in the NBIC arena. All of that info is right at DARPA's fingertips,a dn theyre gungho about cognitive intelligence. DARPA is a real world skynet, but the skynet judgement day wont happen, not will the matrix machines implant the human with huge probes after the war. The people will have NBIC implants before all of that, the people will be in the society collective(governments goal, i have quotes) and will be slaves just the same as the robots.

Really can you see the future? I'm in awe. /sarcasm The future will happen with or without us at the helm. It won't necessarily be a bad thing, but you've already made up you're mind from a theological standpoint. I stand by my statement that should we distroy ourselves it will be by our own hand.

At the same time people will be taking evolution into their own hands with their "posthuman" goals. Humans will lose all dignity, and would be stomped out. That is what will cause Judgement Day, that is why He will return.

So dignity is exclusive to Humanity? That's a rather specist attitude.

These mad scientists need to understand that even if their evolution THEORY (it is GOOD, but its still just a theory) is absolutely 100% correct, it still doenst disprove God,

Not talking about god here you're the one who brought it up. For the record there are Transhumanists who believe in the Lord allmighty and there are those who Believe in Allah. But most of those who follow that rationalist (versus Fundamentalist) philsophy are atheists, are you making the accusation that we are immoral just because we do not believe in a big bearded white guy sitting on a cloud up in the sky? Puhleeese.

and it doesnt give us the right to take evolution into our own hands.

What right do you have to say we can't do what we want to our own bodies? When people start to dictate what we can and cannot do bad things happen as well. Remember Hitler?

The problem is that the outcome will be humans who cannot possibly compete, either physically or mentally. This means humans will become the lower class, a complete loss of dignity.

Oh nooes the Borg are coming the Borg are coming Again you're specist attitude discusts me. What if we were to make first contact with an alien race who don't believe in any type of spirituality whatsoever yet are peacefull and passive, would they lack "dignity"?

Many will submit to the collective, but ultimatly it will be the truely religious aithful that refuse the system, and get stomped on.

When I achieve posthuman status the only reason I would stomp on anyone is if they attempt to stomp on me first. Luddites believed similiar things would happen because of technology yet they still live amoung us, they are called the Amish and are pretty much left to their own devices by the government. Oh yeah I forget since the people in power are human they have dignity and morals and won't do that sort of things. You're ignoring history.

The "collective" "singularity" WILL come, theres no stopping it.

Agreed.

The things I just mentioned WILL happen. The question is how far along will He allow it to go before intervening?

Umm did He intervene when millions of Jews were being exterminated? Oh maybe they HAD to die because they were preying to the wrong god hmm? Didn't seem to change that at all.

The sky isn't falling Chicken Little.

[edit on 3-2-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by xeroxed88
All this reminds me of the films, Terminator and The Matrix. The whole, machines becoming too advanced, etc. One day, they will become too advanced and will be the destruction of the human race.

[edit on 21-1-2006 by xeroxed88]

I've always believed that science fiction paves the way for science. Damn Imaginations!

Originally posted by sardion2000

Those movies arent even as "scary" as it will be. I have a scifi movie rebuttal coming up. In short Martix was off, because the machiens wont have to experiement on us after the war, to know how to implant us, we're doing that work for them. Theres a major national database, that every lab in the US posts all of their findings in the NBIC arena. All of that info is right at DARPA's fingertips,a dn theyre gungho about cognitive intelligence. DARPA is a real world skynet, but the skynet judgement day wont happen, not will the matrix machines implant the human with huge probes after the war. The people will have NBIC implants before all of that, the people will be in the society collective(governments goal, i have quotes) and will be slaves just the same as the robots.

Really can you see the future? I'm in awe. /sarcasm The future will happen with or without us at the helm. It won't necessarily be a bad thing, but you've already made up you're mind from a theological standpoint. I stand by my statement that should we distroy ourselves it will be by our own hand.

***Have you read the federal governments "Converging Technologies for Improving Human Performance"? Have you read stacks and stacks of science and government documentation to understand whats possible, whats next and how bad they want it? Do you comprehend how fast this technology will come once they successfully build this network I speak of? Do you even understand what NBIC is?
www.wtec.org...

At the same time people will be taking evolution into their own hands with their "posthuman" goals. Humans will lose all dignity, and would be stomped out. That is what will cause Judgement Day, that is why He will return.

So dignity is exclusive to Humanity? That's a rather specist attitude.

***Not with humans around, look at how humans treat every other creature that is "lower on th evolutionary chain". Do you REALLY think that "people" are going to look highly on humans who are lower on the evolutionary chain? Do you understand the power-aphrodisiac concept? Even if you transhumanists somehow didnt look down, strictly humans wouldnt look up. Its conflict out of transhumanist control, and I highly doubt that transhumanists would look up to humans anyways. You do know the Posthuman goal of the true transhumanists right?
www.wtec.org...

These mad scientists need to understand that even if their evolution THEORY (it is GOOD, but its still just a theory) is absolutely 100% correct, it still doenst disprove God,

Not talking about god here you're the one who brought it up. For the record there are Transhumanists who believe in the Lord allmighty and there are those who Believe in Allah. But most of those who follow that rationalist (versus Fundamentalist) philsophy are atheists, are you making the accusation that we are immoral just because we do not believe in a big bearded white guy sitting on a cloud up in the sky? Puhleeese.

***You do know the Posthuman goal of the true transhumanists right? It goes well beyond simple upgrades to your body, its the all about TRANSforming into POSThumans. Thats taking God out of the equation, making man "god" of evolution over "himself". Regardless of how and when we really got here, creatures do adapt and evolve. God is in charge of that, not humans. Humans reconfiguring themselves with manmade technoliges, ya God really wants us doing that.

and it doesnt give us the right to take evolution into our own hands.

What right do you have to say we can't do what we want to our own bodies? When people start to dictate what we can and cannot do bad things happen as well. Remember Hitler?

***You do know the Posthuman goal of the true transhumanists right? It goes well beyond simple upgrades to your body, its the all about TRANSforming into POSThumans. Dont make it sound like getting breast implants. Ya, i know Hitler, we have Bush lol. What do you think will happen when the noosphere/neurosphere(people minds) combine with the singularity, which is all people who have neural uplink implants(no sweat with intreveinious NBIC implants)???

www.nsf.gov...

The problem is that the outcome will be humans who cannot possibly compete, either physically or mentally. This means humans will become the lower class, a complete loss of dignity.

Oh nooes the Borg are coming the Borg are coming

Again you're specist attitude discusts me. What if we were to make first contact with an alien race who don't believe in any type of spirituality whatsoever yet are peacefull and passive, would they lack "dignity"?

***Ohh Nooos, u r 733t. The noopshere combined with the singularity will be the collective, that the government wants:

www.wtec.org...

"Efforts must center on individual and collective human
advancement, in terms of an enlightened conception of human benefit that
embraces change while preserving fundamental values."

"Table 1. Main improvement areas relative to an individual:
External, collective • Enhanced group interaction and creativity
• Unifying science education and learning"

"Figure 2. Vision of the world as a distributed, interconnected “brain” with various architectural levels that can empower individuals with access to collective knowledge while safeguarding privacy."

"A networked society of billions of human beings could be as complex compared to an individual human being as a human being is to a single nerve cell. From local groups of linked enhanced individuals to a global collective intelligence, key new capabilities would arise from relationships created with NBIC technologies."

"Far from unnatural, such a collective social system may be compared to a larger form of a biological organism. Biological organisms themselves make use of many structures such as bones and circulatory system. The networked society enabled through NBIC convergence could explore new pathways in societal structures, in an increasingly complex system (Bar-Yam 1997)."

"Improving our ability to collectively improve ourselves (see also Spohrer 2002) Generations Several Key Advancements (human kind, tools and technology, communication)
-m Cell, body and brain development
- 100,000 Old Stone Age (Paleolithic), Homo Erectus, speech
-10,000 Homo Sapiens, making tools
-500 Mesolithic, creating art
-400 Neolithic, agricultural products, writing, libraries
-40 Universities
-24 Printing
-16 Renaissance in S&T, accurate clocks
-10 Industrial revolution
-5 Telephone
-4 Radio
-3 TV
-2 Computers
-1 Microbiology, Internet
0 Reaching at the building blocks of matter (nanoscience)
Biotechnology products
Global connection via Internet; GPS/sensors for navigation
½ Unifying science and converging technologies from the nanoscale
Nanotechnology products
Improving human performance advancements
Global education and information infrastructure
1 Converging technology products for improving human physical and
mental performance (new products and services, brain connectivity,
sensory abilities, etc.)
Societal and business reorganization
n Evolution transcending human cell, body, and brain?"

"Converging technologies are at the confluence of key disciplines and areas of application, and the role of government is important because no other participant can cover the breadth and level of required collective effort. Without special efforts for coordination and integration, the path of science might not lead to the fundamental unification envisioned here."

"Six increasingly interconnected megatrends (Fig. A.16) are perceived as dominating the science and engineering (S&E) scene for the next several decades: (a) information and computing, (b) nanoscale science and engineering, (c) biology and bio-environmental approaches, (d) medical sciences and enhancement of human physical capabilities, (e) cognitive sciences and enhancement of intellectual abilities, and (f) collective behavior and systems approaches."

"Cognitive sciences and enhancement of intellectual abilities. This area is
concerned with exploring and improving human cognition, behavior, and
intellect. Enhancing communication and group interaction are an integral part of improving collective behavior and productivity."

"Collective behavior and systems approach. This area uses concepts found in architecture, hierarchical systems, chaos theory, and various disciplines to study nature, technology, and society. It may describe a living system,
cultural traits, reaction of the society to an unexpected event, or development of global communication, to name a few examples. Recognition of the value of systems approaches increased in the late 1990s."

"But it is important to note that there is a melding of human and S&E development here: human development, from individual medical and intellectual development to collective cultures and globalization, is a key goal."

"Four transforming tools have emerged: nanotechnology for hardware, biotechnology for dealing with living systems, information technology for
communication and control, and cognition-based technologies to enhance human abilities and collective behavior."

"Nanoscience and nanotechnology development are necessary contributing
components in the converging advancements in S&E, including those
originating in the digital revolution, modern biology, human medical and
cognitive sciences, and collective behavior theory."

In the next century (or in about five more generations), breakthroughs in
nanotechnology (blurring the boundaries between natural and human-made molecular systems), information sciences (leading to more autonomous, intelligent machines), biosciences or life sciences (extending human life with genomics and proteomics), cognitive and neural sciences (creating artificial neural nets and decoding the human cognome), and social sciences (understanding “memes“ and harnessing collective IQ) are poised to further pick up the pace of technological progress and perhaps change our species again in as profound a way as the first spoken language learning did some one hundred thousand generations ago."

"Social science advances (obtained from studies of real systems as well as
simulations of complex adaptive systems composed of many interacting
individuals) will provide fresh insights into the collective IQ of humans, as
well as interspecies collective IQ and the spread of memes. A meme, which is a term coined by the author and zoologist Richard Dawkins, is “a habit, a
technique, a twist of feeling, a sense of things, which easily flips from one
brain to another.”"

"Bees (220 million years ago): New species and agent; social insect with
memes, collective IQ"

"The collective vision, called The Communicator here, draws together numerous applications and sciences."

"Cognitive scientists can help teams reflect on this division of
labor in ways that facilitate collaboration and collective learning (Hutchins 1995)."

"Complex systems studies range from detailed studies of specific systems to studies of the mechanisms by which patterns of collective behaviors arise,"

It's funny how all the transhumanists, with all of the great ideas for "humanity", forget who is building this: the government. That puts your faith in them, and this brain network system, which will surely be in place by the time the NBIC implants will be ready.

www.wtec.org...

Many will submit to the collective, but ultimatly it will be the truely religious aithful that refuse the system, and get stomped on.

When I achieve posthuman status the only reason I would stomp on anyone is if they attempt to stomp on me first. Luddites believed similiar things would happen because of technology yet they still live amoung us, they are called the Amish and are pretty much left to their own devices by the government. Oh yeah I forget since the people in power are human they have dignity and morals and won't do that sort of things. You're ignoring history.

Yup, all selfishness. You only understand the world from your perspective, noones elses. You clearly dont have enough sense to decide humanities fate, and you will help its downfall. The peopel in pwer wil be the governemt, who will have the implants before anyone else. Youre utopian fantasy isnt being made by Sony, but they will surely help sell it to the video game generation (noones more into games than me, and I wont accept this outrage). How do you know what you'll do when youre in the collective and you're no longer YOU???

The "collective" "singularity" WILL come, theres no stopping it.

Agreed.

***So you want to be jacked into the governments singularity? O man, it'll have you in nirvana, you'll literally be orgasming all over self in psychedlic visual-sensual overdrive. You'll find "god", like everyone else who considers that to be the "second coming", "eden 2", "heaven on earth" aka "NEUARK GENESIS II".

The things I just mentioned WILL happen. The question is how far along will He allow it to go before intervening?

Umm did He intervene when millions of Jews were being exterminated? Oh maybe they HAD to die because they were preying to the wrong god hmm? Didn't seem to change that at all.

**Maybe that was meant to be, or did you decide that for everybody?? Really though, the whole point is that they werent persecuted for being HUMANS, only for Jews, you totally missed the point.

The sky isn't falling Chicken Little.

***Hey, you REALLY know whats going on dont you?

[edit on 3-2-2006 by sardion2000]

[edit on 3-2-2006 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

[edit on 3-2-2006 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

[edit on 3-2-2006 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Keep in mind that there is a difference between sheer neural or computing complexity, and genuine cognitive awareness or intelligence. For that to occur there would need to be several factors in place in addition to these "biological computers."

To name just a few: the capacity to review actions comprehensively and learn from them, thus increasing efficiency by gaining experience; a means by which the organism might perceive the world around it, and 'think' about what it's sensing; the ability to 'think' about what it's doing as it does it, and adapt on the fly to changing conditions; the ability to examine and memorize; the ability to process information in ways not programmed; the ability to examine and gain increasing awareness of itself and its aspects. There are many, many others.

Complexity alone, biological, cybernetic, or hybrid, does not intelligence make. No amount of ones and zeros or any point between the two on a gradient is going to produce genuine intelligence without these other factors. That said, DARPA has been working on that very thing - a software capable of contemplating what it's doing, and which is (by some people's definition) cognizant.

Taking this to an extreme hypothetical fringe, the problem I would see with this - if I believed it were possible within the time frame we're talking about - would be that if genuine, self-aware intelligence were produced, we would have a responsibility to its wellbeing. Once self-aware, it would essentially be a living being, with intelligence comparable to our own. Most of humanity's shortcomings spring forth from the discrepancy between intellect and wisdom. (Smart enough to split the atom, but not wise enough not to do it). How would we program a machine - or even a biomechanical organism - with the capacity for insights, opinions, etc. which are largely based on hormonal factors? How could we expect our creations to be anything but even less wise than ourselves, since they would essentially be operating purely on logic (unless we did find a way to simulate or create emotions, insights, etc.) Logic can justify almost anything that wisdom cannot. We would be creating the embodiment of our greatest folly.

At what technological/philosophical point does 'the sum of the whole become greater than the sum of the parts' and cognitive critical-mass achieved...

..Its life Jim, but not as we know it....

Skeptics try this:

Flyer Page 1:

www.ignoranceisntbliss.com...

Flyer Page 1:

www.ignoranceisntbliss.com...

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
What are you talking about? 'People', 'Entertainment Weekly'? What kind sof drugs are you taking? Whre does it say anything to that effect? Quote Please.

Those are magazines, look through a research journal if you want science.

Hey it's not perfect, I have less time than you could imagine, and nobodies paying me to do it. Ever read a science journal? Their sentence structure is often poor too, science people usually dont stress about anal grammar perfection. I would take your critism as constructive, but your tone in this thread makes it seem beyond constructive, insulting.

How do you have less time, what is your deadline? Have a professor help you.

To you it may sound nice and easy to research the brain, neurons, history, recent advances/discoveries, NBIC(Nano-Bio-Info-Cogno) convergence, etc.

No, I am recommending you rewrite the letter.

I dont see what GC has to do with the capabilities of the massive brain array theory. Go read some science journals, the scientists have every intention of "taking some artificial out of AI". Those questions should have been easy for him to answer. Koch specializes in cognitive science, those are exactly the questions that should be directed towards him. I'd have a different set of questions for scienitists in the other neuro related fields. If Those are critical questions to the overall theory, specifically in regards to if it would have "consciousness" or not, and also if I have the proper understanding, of at least what one of the top guys in the field thinks. I reallt wasnt trying to do a huge "thesis" full of references in an email with important questions, and with a guy lke him I shouldnt really need to.

So what, are suggesting there is no math behind how the human brain works?

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Most of humanity's shortcomings spring forth from the discrepancy between intellect and wisdom.

Wisdom is a subjective term and in different culture, different set's of biases are considered Wisdom while in another it would be considered Heretical, Unpatriotic or Treason.

How would we program a machine - or even a biomechanical organism - with the capacity for insights, opinions, etc. which are largely based on hormonal factors?

I've never heard that before. I personally think the best way to do this would be to "download" the personality of a real human being into a vacant Biomechanical shell. Laws should be put into place that limit this to the deceased(who also donated their corpse to science as they are usually very caring people or else they would just want their body buried or cremated) or the willing.

How could we expect our creations to be anything but even less wise than ourselves, since they would essentially be operating purely on logic (unless we did find a way to simulate or create emotions, insights, etc.) Logic can justify almost anything that wisdom cannot. We would be creating the embodiment of our greatest folly.

Faulty logic can justify anything. Pure Logic of defining an idea as either Logical, Illogical or In need of Improvment(the Fudge factor) is quite precise. Any being operating on Pure Logic versus Faulty Logic should be able to comprehend the illogical "necessity" of Nuclear Weapons. Having the will to use those weapons is even more illogical as it impedes the chances of survival of said logical self-aware thinking machine. A hormonal response notably known as Fear caused us to use that weapon in the first place.

Ignoranceisntbliss you get a double from me for that post you made.... Took me a good three hours to go through the whole lot, all the links, and then digest what i'd read.

The long and the short of it people is that if you get an RFID tag, and they get the surveillance kit they want... They will know the number of man.... Thats scary stuff out there folks... me i'm just going to go find a nice remote spot, take some food and some friends, and go hide a while whilst the goverments power this stuff up.....

IMHO : Role on the second coming of Jesus thats all i can say...

i]Originally posted by Frosty

"Those are magazines, look through a research journal if you want science."

Who said I dont have stacks and stacks of science journal and similar printouts and books here? I do. Do you have any questions?

"How do you have less time, what is your deadline? Have a professor help you."

I work for free, for people that I dont even know. I do nothing but this, with absolutely NO help. I have a science thesis coming up, but I'm stretched thin. If you have an actual debate related to the actual theory please begin now:

"No, I am recommending you rewrite the letter.:

That letter is the least of my concerns at this point.

"So what, are suggesting there is no math behind how the human brain works?"

Your point has no point in determining consciousness( the main goal of the irrelevant letter), or whether my theory is plausible or not.

Hey everyone, I'm getting ready to be on RevereRadioNetwork.com tonight Wed Feb 22 at 12AM EST.

Woh, woh woh woh! Can someone please explain this massive brain array theory again?
This is brand new to me.
What are the implications again?

See here:
forums.anandtech.com...

Breaking The Time Barrier (by: Jenny Randles)
...some computer programs have been run attempting to extrapolate on the current rate of progress... They reveal that by the year 2100 computers could reach such a level that a re-creation of an entire solar system would be possible in such minute detail that not even scientific instruments could detect a difference from the real solar system. Indeed, with a truly complete simulation, the distinction between the real and the imaginary loses the significance that it has for us today.

Right now, most computers, at least commercial computers, have intelligence on the level of insects. In 50 years or so they will be on the level of a small child. I forget where I read this, maybe in Steven Hawkings book, hold on ill go check. Nope, cant find it, but theres some other interesting points:

Paraphrasing:

If the population growth and the increase in electrical consumption contine to rise at their current rates, by 2600 the world's population will be standing shoulder to shoulder and the Earth will glow red hot from the electricity use.

If you stacked the new books being published next to eachother you would have to move at 90 miles per hour just to keep up with the end of the line.

If the growth continues there would be ten papers a second on Hawking's kind of research on theoretical physics, with no time to read them.

Computers today obey Moore's law, which states that their speed and complexity doubles every eighteen months. (By this law we should have 10ghz processors sometime in 2007 in our computers)

This will probably continue until they are as complex as the human brain. Some people say that comuters can never show true intelligence. But it seems that if very complicated molecules can operate in humans to make them intelligent, then equally complicated electronic circuits can also make computers act in an intelligent way. Which would presumably go on to design even more intelligent computers.

Electronic circuits have a limit to speed because higher complexity limits it. However they may mimic the brain by using millions of processors working in parallel.

That's all based on thinking that we'll always have only silicon cpu's. Perhaps my reply elsewhere can help put some of this into perspective.

My recent neuron argument:

“Hawkins focuses mainly on the cortex, the most evolutionarily recent part of the brain.
the cortex, in his view, uses memory rather than computation to solve problems. Consider the problem of catching a ball. A robotic arm might be programmed for this task, but achieving it is extremely difficult and involves reams of calculations. The brain, by contrast, draws upon stored memories of how to catch a ball, modifying those memories to suit the particular conditions each time a ball is thrown. “
“The cortex also uses memories to make predictions. It is engaged in constant, mostly unconscious prediction about everything we observe. When something happens that varies from prediction—if you detect an unusual motion, say, or an odd texture—it is passed up to a higher level in the cortex’s hierarchy of neurons. The new memories are then parlayed into further predictions. Prediction, in Hawkins’ telling, is the sine qua non of intelligence. To understand something is to be able to make predictions about it.”
www.reason.com...

“Apparently, neurons, themselves the tools of learning, smartly synthesize proteins where they are needed. Two recent publications demonstrate that neurons are capable of localized translation in dendrites and in axons.”
www.jcb.org...

Are you going to argue with Christof Koch?
“From the perspective of Christof Koch’s Biophysics of Computation the situation is quite different. A neuron can no longer be viewed as a single switch; it is more or less analogous to an integrated circuit chip.”
www.klab.caltech.edu...

Neurons aren’t powerful or unique? Neurons aren’t feasible? Conventional technologies will give us cognitive computing first, you say?

1. If we had a silicon chip that had as many ‘connections’ would it become intelligent? No. In neuronss the “software” and the “ROM memory” are built in, even the RAM seems to be. There are certain areas or ‘parts’ that play important roles in consciousness, that wouldn’t exist in a puddle or blob of neurons, but the fact remains that the power is in those neurons. Neurons process and they store memories. How do memory capabilities fit into the mathematical model of trying to replicate “neuron power”?

2. It’s suggested that glial cells even help electrically ‘compute’, and it isn’t known how significant their function is. How do glial cells fit into the mathematical model of trying to replicate “neuron power”?

3. Does anyone think that we will ever have self-repairing silicon chips? Neuron networks self-repair, and self-form, which would take serious overhead of the software from the hardware. DARPA does have 3D chips in its thrust, but silicon chips are still flat for a reason.

4. Neurons grow in different shapes & sizes, with varying amounts & lengths of dendrites and axons. Why wouldn’t they all be exactly the same if they aren’t special? How do rearranging, growing/stretching and expanding cells, with synaptic plasticity, fit into the mathematical model of trying to replicate “neuron power”?

5. It’s suggested that neuron dendrites and axons reverse fire. How does that fit into the model?

6. Neuron can have up to roughly 100,000 dendrtic synapses, with multi-connected axons. How does that fit into the model? How big can this model get until we decide to just use neurons instead?

7. Conventional computers use base 2 binary, and neurons are analog of about 25KHz. How much conventional CPU and RAM overhead will It consume to crunch base 25K over base 2 (not even counting all of the other dynamics of neurons)?

8. Memories and synaptic weights involve biochemistry. How does that fit into the ‘simple’ model?
cbcl.mit.edu...

9. Right now we’re (publicly) using rat brain neuron networks to study neural processing and cognition. This appears to be a step in surpassing human cognition. The NSF has awarded Demarse $500,000 to take his F22 brain findings, and research, to attempt to build a mathematical model of neuron networks. While those “loose” findings would be important for progress, rat brain neuron nets are still nothing like humans. Not in neuron types/capacity, or brain complexity.

10. We still don’t know exactly what goes on inside the neuron, yet you describe them as being ‘simple’…

Considering 1-10 (I’m sure there’s some things I missed), it seems obvious that trying to build a mathematical model of the brain’s neuron ‘computing’ processes, and trying to program that into hardware, would go against Occam’s Razor. All I see an “s curve” to reaching the capability of proper neuron firing and ‘programming’ to ultimately reach super intelligence. Our brains with their “simple neurons” already spank any computer out there in intelligence and cognition (at least from an unclassified standpoint), and a great deal of the brain is used for body motor and life support systems – things these computers won’t need, and would have all the hardware extras that our brains don’t.

If we can perfect it then we can grow them in larger scales, and get both ‘hardware’ and ‘software’ coupled inside of each ‘processor’. They’re already devoting significant computers to their efforts, this would be a matter of converting those over to “data acquisition hardware” and building cube shaped “brains” that have massive bio-silicon interface chips (better than massive mea’s, must I explain?) on all sides; they could even do more extravagant geometric shapes using silicon.. How isn’t it more feasible to choose neurons over conventional technologies, for cognitive computing?

They could go rather far with this, using some current technologies alone. 1. They could start with "Doogie" strains of rats or mice, which have increased learning and memory abilities. 2. Then, they could humanize them using stem cell treatments. This doesn’t actually humanize all of the cells but rather sprouts human cells in mix. 3. An important key is whether or not spindle or mirror neurons can be harvested like this. 4. If so they could then use developing “assembly line” technology to clone those cells in large scales giving them superior processor media. 5. Advanced Nootropic drugs and bioengineering can further enhance cognitive capabilities.
www.princeton.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.washingtonpost.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...

It wont ruin their goal even if #3 above isn’t possible, for at least two reasons. First, they’ll have advanced rat-human chimæra neuron media, that includes more powerful rat cells in the mix. Second, they can simply use “suspended animation” technology to harvest live human brains which would give them significant amounts of spindle and mirror neurons, to name two. Do you have "Organ Donor" checked on your license? Do ethical laws apply to people that do?
www.websters-online-dictionary.org...
smh.com.au...#

Ignorance is ignoring clear evidence of something. Your blog provides no evidence, therefor, ignoring your blog is not synonymous to ignorance.
You provide no evidence in a blog though.

Well, I suppose I havent directly proven that they do do it but I've demonstrated the MEA / neuron technology and proof of intent to do such a thing.

What proof would you really like though?


MEA’s:
www.mcs-download.com...
www.bio.dibe.unige.it...
www.its.caltech.edu...
www.neuro.gatech.edu...
www.nih.knaw.nl...&ActuatorsB(inpress).pdf

Purchase MEA's:
www.alascience.com...
www.biocell-interface.com...
soma.npa.uiuc.edu...
www.neuroexplorer.com...
www.multichannelsystems.com...
www.ayanda-biosys.com...
www.med64.com...
www.xensei.com...
www.nmi.de...
www.plexoninc.com...
www.cyberkineticsinc.com...
www.funetics.com...

Purchase Rat Brains / Neurons:
www.genlantis.com...
www.biocompare.com...
www.brainbitsllc.com...
www.gene-ethics-asia.com...
neuromics.com...

‘Yuck Factor’ and Stem Cell Sources:
www.foxnews.com... Lab Mice Grow Human Brain Cells After Injections)
www.princeton.edu... “Doogie” smart genetically engineered mice strain
news.bbc.co.uk... Stem Cells Grown From Dead Bodies
smh.com.au...# Reanimation
www.msnbc.msn.com... National Cord Blood Bank
www.physiciansforlife.ca... Abortions

Neuron Achievments:
www.wireheading.com... Hybrot
web.mit.edu... Hybrot
www.dice.ucl.ac.be... Neural Hardware
www.sciencedaily.com... F22 Brain
www.google.com...
www.bme.ufl.edu... Animat
web.mit.edu... Animat
brc.technion.ac.il... Learning
web.mit.edu... MEART
web.mit.edu...
www.fishandchips.uwa.edu.au... MEART


Some Quotes:
"Animats are artificial animals. The term includes physical robots and virtual simulations. Animat research, a subset of Artificial Life studies, has become rather popular since Rodney Brooks' seminal paper "Intelligence without reason". The word was coined by S.W. Wilson in 1991."
en.wikipedia.org...

Neurally Controlled Simulated Robot: Applying Cultured Neurons to Handle an Approach / Avoidance Task in Real Time and a Framework for Studying Learning in Vitro
web.mit.edu... :
“One of the main benefits of living neural networks as opposed to digital computing is a built in ability to learn based on experience. When learning occurs, synaptic weights adjust (often referred to as synaptic plasticity) and thenceforth the system‘s behavior changes even if given the same input conditions as before the learning had occurred. Finite State Automata theory breaks down when trying to emulate neural learning, because the neurons can —rewire“ themselves automatically, thus changing the possible states the system may enter on a given input. Any change in synaptic weights may therefore be considered a doubling of the states in the automaton. If one tries to emulate learning to infinite precision (since the synaptic weights are analog), one may realize that the living neural network may actually have an infinite number of states. Though neural networks are chaotic systems, infinite precision is probably not required to model an analog synapse. Even so, the number of finite states that a network of neurons may enter may be unreasonably many to consider with standard automata theory. Given that learning may increase the processing power of living neuronal networks”
...
"In this project, I showed that probing with varying delay between the probes produces a predictable non-linear response. I showed how to emulate digital logic using such a response, thus proving that cultured neurons can theoretically execute a computer program with polynomial slow-down. I then applied the living neurons to handle a more interesting real-world problem in real-time. In this project an animat was created that combines a living neural network with a virtual body in an effort to create a system where the living neural network could be studied. The animat was successful at tracking and maintaining distance from a reference object, which can be considered both an approach and avoidance task. Part of the robustness of the animat in the current project is that it reacts more strongly when necessary to correct for error. Thus, if it has an error on some trial, the error will not be fatal because in the next trial it will make up for it. The animat in this project is unique because I am replacing algorithmic components of control with neural computation. In the animat, sensory information is encoded into stimulus information, which induces a given reaction in the neural network. The behavior of the animat is determined solely on this neural response There is no algorithmic component converting sensory information into animat movement. Thus, the animat demonstrates some of the computational power of cultured cortical neurons. Furthermore, the animat provides a scheme for testing the effects of plasticity in cultured neurons, and these effects are visible through quantifiable measurements of robotic behavior. The animat opens the door for additional experiments, both to determine interesting robotic behavior, such as tracking and following a moving reference object, and to determine the effects of varying types of plasticity that may be induced. One may ask the question, —how much intelligence does the animat display?“ An in-depth philosophical discussion of this topic is beyond the scope of this thesis, but one should consider that the animat is handling a relatively difficult approach / avoidance task in real-time. A truly intelligent machine should of course be able to handle a variety of tasks, including tasks that it has never faced before. To accomplish such a goal, more complex sensory information needs to be encoded (rather than simply the direction and distance of a single object within the environment). Thus, an important future direction in the development of this animat may involve the utilization of additional channels for stimulation. I hope that the animat built in this project is at the beginning of its development cycle. In the near future, the animat can be converted into a real robot fairly simply. Small changes, such as improvements to the mapping schemes to make them more dynamic can improve the performance of the animat. For example, with each step the animat takes, the individual channel histograms used for lock/key decoding may be slightly modified. This will take into account any slight —drift“ in precisely timed spikes over time."

Removing some ‘A’ from AI: Embodied Cultured Networks
www.neuro.gatech.edu...
“We wish to continue this trend by studying the network processing of ensembles of living neurons that lead to higher-level cognition and intelligent behavior.”
“A better understanding of the processes leading to biological cognition can, in turn, facilitate progress in understanding neural pathologies, designing neural prosthetics, and creating fundamentally different types of artificial inteligence.”
“By using biology directly, we hope to remove some of the 'A' from AI.”
“No one would argue that environmental interaction, or embodiment, is unimportant in the wiring of the brain; no one is born with the innate ability to ride a bicycle or solve algebraic equations. Practice is needed. An individual's unique environmental interactions lead to a continuous 'experience-dependent' wiring of the brain [1]. This makes evolutionary sense as it is helpful to learn new abilities throughout life: if there are some advantageous features of an organism that can be attained through learning, then the ability to learn such features can be established through evolution (the Baldwin effect) [2]. Thus, the ability to learn is innate (learning usually being defined as the acquisition of novel behavior through experience [3]). “
“We use biological neural networks not as substitutes to artificial neural networks, but to tease out the intricacies of biological processing to inform future development of artificial processing. In particular, we analyzed how the properties of neurons lead to real-time control and adaptation to novel environments.”
“New findings about the dynamics of living neural networks might be used to
design more biological, less artificial AI.“
“Environmental deprivation leads to abnormal brain structure and function, and environmental exposure shapes neural development. Similarly, patterned stimulation supplied to cultured neurons may lead to more robust network structure
and functioning than with trivial or no stimulation. The most dramatic examples of the importance of embodiment come from studies during development, when the brain is most malleable. “

Distributed processing in cultured neuronal networks
Steve M. Potter 2001
www.neuro.gatech.edu...
“An embodied culture capable of behaving may then exhibit changes in behavior as a result of experience, that is, learning.”

Learning in Networks of Cortical Neurons
brc.technion.ac.il...
Goded Shahaf and Shimon Marom November 15, 2001
“Learning a new behavioral task is an exploration process that involves the formation and modulation of sets of associations between stimuli and responses“
“The experiments described above show that sufficient conditions for the realization of learning by a selection process, ithout the involvement of a neural rewarding entity, are embodied in large random networks of neurons maintained ex vivo. These networks form a large space of connectivity configurations that are stable over many hours. The connectivity can be modulated by external focal stimulation in an activity-dependent manner. Most importantly, the networks explore the space of possible responses and stabilize at configurations that remove the stimuli.”
“Specifically, we show that, during regular low-frequency stimulation, the network explores a large space of possible connections and can be instructed to select and stabilize one or a subset of them by withdrawing the stimulus at the point that the connection is observed.”

HYBROTS: HYBRIDS OF LIVING NEURONS AND ROBOTS FOR STUDYING NEURAL COMPUTATION
web.mit.edu...
“By combining small networks of real brain cells, computer simulations, and robotics into new hybrid neural microsystems (which we call Hybrots), we hope to determine which neural properties are essential for the kinds of collective dynamics that might be used in artificially intelligent systems.”
“If we and others are successful with this new approach, we will learn the cell- and network-level substrates of memory, thought, and behavioral control, and may then be able to develop more brain-like artificial intelligences.”

TeraGrid:
www.nsf.gov...
kb.iu.edu...
www.teragrid.org...
www.npaci.edu...

ASC:
www.llnl.gov...
www.sandia.gov...

Government Manifesto's:
www.wtec.org...
www.darpa.mil...
www.darpa.mil...
www.darpa.mil...
science.slashdot.org.../02/02/029246&from=rss
www.darpa.mil...
www.hpcuserforum.com...
www.darpa.mil...
www.semgrid.net...
www.darpa.mil...
www.tolerantsystems.org...
www.darpa.mil...
www.nano.gov...
is.arc.nasa.gov...
www.isprs.org...
www.nsf.gov...
www.sandia.gov...


Quantum Computing:
www.physorg.com...
www.qubit.org...
blogs.zdnet.com...
www.theage.com.au...
www.darpa.mil...

Google:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.boston.com...
blog.myspace.com...
www.google-watch.org... Must See
blogs.pcworld.com...
www.businessweek.com...
news.com.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.techtree.com...

Tracking:
www.its.dot.gov... Vehicle GPS and street cameras
dtsn.darpa.mil...
Combat Zones that See (CTS): What the street cameras are really used for
www.biomark.com...
www.digitalangelcorp.com...
tagged.kaos.gen.nz...
www.rfidjournal.com... NASA’s GPS tracking system
www.lonelantern.org...!.wmv
www.lonelantern.org...
www.forbes.com...://www.forbes.com/video/fvn/business/tm_dangl&id=murphy_digital&title=Video: Tech Guardians&tab=Technology
www.4verichip.com...
www.verichipcorp.com...
www.epic.org...
www.missingkids.com... Abduction National Average (keep in mind if the news begins a huge kidnapping media campaign)
blog.myspace.com... RFID Overview
www.rfidjournal.com... RFID Zapper
cq.cx... Proximity Card Cloning
cq.cx... Verichip Cloning
www.spychips.com... Verichip Hacked
www.chicagotribune.com... DoD’s Cyberstorm
www.ocregister.com... Mileage Tax Proposed
www.informationweek.com... New Jersey Grade School Institutes Iris Scanning
www.usatoday.com... Checkout fingerprint scanners
www.theregister.co.uk... Cell phone GPS

Behavior Modification:
www.iwar.org.uk... DOD’s Information Operations Roadmap plus extras
www.nsf.gov... Must See
patft.uspto.gov.../netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,159,703.WKU.&OS=PN/5,159,703&RS =PN/5,159,703 Non-Detectable Subliminal Messaging System
patft.uspto.gov.../netahtml/search-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=subliminal.TTL.&s2=m essage.TTL.&OS=TTL/subliminal%20AND%20TTL/message&RS=TTL/subliminal%20AND%20TTL/message Subliminal message generator
www.subliminalsex.com... Proof they use subliminal messaging on TV
www.fair.org... .gov propagandists at CNN
www.sfgate.com.../news/archive/2005/10/25/financial/f133702D73.DTL Remote Control for Humans
www.birf.info... Neuro-stimulation
www.world-science.net... Scientists proved subliminal messages do affect our brains
www.smh.com.au... Governments Neuro “Hive Mind” goals
www.mackwhite.com... Television and the Hive Mind
www.alexansary.blogspot.com... Great site
www.druglibrary.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.livescience.com... Mirror Neurons

Some collective society quotes:
www.wtec.org... (.gov document)
"With knowledge no longer encapsulated in individuals, the distinction between individuals and the entirety of humanity would blur," the report says. "Think Vulcan mind-meld. We would perhaps become more of a hive mind - an enormous, single, intelligent entity."
"The collective vision, called The Communicator here, draws together numerous applications and sciences."

"Cognitive scientists can help teams reflect on this division of labor in ways that facilitate collaboration and collective learning (Hutchins 1995)."

"Complex systems studies range from detailed studies of specific systems to studies of the mechanisms by which patterns of collective behaviors arise,"
"Six increasingly interconnected megatrends (Fig. A.16) are perceived as dominating the science and engineering (S&E) scene for the next several decades: (a) information and computing, (b) nanoscale science and engineering, (c) biology and bio-environmental approaches, (d) medical sciences and enhancement of human physical capabilities, (e) cognitive sciences and enhancement of intellectual abilities, and (f) collective behavior and systems approaches."

"Cognitive sciences and enhancement of intellectual abilities. This area is
concerned with exploring and improving human cognition, behavior, and
intellect. Enhancing communication and group interaction are an integral part of improving collective behavior and productivity."

"Collective behavior and systems approach. This area uses concepts found in architecture, hierarchical systems, chaos theory, and various disciplines to study nature, technology, and society. It may describe a living system, cultural traits, reaction of the society to an unexpected event, or development of global communication, to name a few examples. Recognition of the value of systems approaches increased in the late 1990s."

"But it is important to note that there is a melding of human and S&E development here: human development, from individual medical and intellectual development to collective cultures and globalization, is a key goal."

"Four transforming tools have emerged: nanotechnology for hardware, biotechnology for dealing with living systems, information technology for
communication and control, and cognition-based technologies to enhance human abilities and collective behavior."

"Nanoscience and nanotechnology development are necessary contributing
components in the converging advancements in S&E, including those
originating in the digital revolution, modern biology, human medical and
cognitive sciences, and collective behavior theory."
"Efforts must center on individual and collective human advancement, in terms of an enlightened conception of human benefit that embraces change while preserving fundamental values."

"Table 1. Main improvement areas relative to an individual: External, collective Enhanced group interaction and creativity Unifying science education and learning"

"Figure 2. Vision of the world as a distributed, interconnected brain with various architectural levels that can empower individuals with access to collective knowledge while safeguarding privacy."

"A networked society of billions of human beings could be as complex compared to an individual human being as a human being is to a single nerve cell. From local groups of linked enhanced individuals to a global collective intelligence, key new capabilities would arise from relationships created with NBIC technologies."

"Far from unnatural, such a collective social system may be compared to a larger form of a biological organism. Biological organisms themselves make use of many structures such as bones and circulatory system. The networked society enabled through NBIC convergence could explore new pathways in societal structures, in an increasingly complex system (Bar-Yam 1997)."

"Improving our ability to collectively improve ourselves (see also Spohrer 2002) Generations Several Key Advancements (human kind, tools and technology, communication)
-m Cell, body and brain development
- 100,000 Old Stone Age (Paleolithic), Homo Erectus, speech
-10,000 Homo Sapiens, making tools
-500 Mesolithic, creating art
-400 Neolithic, agricultural products, writing, libraries
-40 Universities
-24 Printing
-16 Renaissance in S&T, accurate clocks
-10 Industrial revolution
-5 Telephone
-4 Radio
-3 TV
-2 Computers
-1 Microbiology, Internet
0 Reaching at the building blocks of matter (nanoscience)
Biotechnology products
Global connection via Internet; GPS/sensors for navigation
Unifying science and converging technologies from the nanoscale
Nanotechnology products
Improving human performance advancements
Global education and information infrastructure
1 Converging technology products for improving human physical and
mental performance (new products and services, brain connectivity,
sensory abilities, etc.)
Societal and business reorganization
n Evolution transcending human cell, body, and brain?"

"Converging technologies are at the confluence of key disciplines and areas of application, and the role of government is important because no other participant can cover the breadth and level of required collective effort. Without special efforts for coordination and integration, the path of science might not lead to the fundamental unification envisioned here."

In the next century (or in about five more generations), breakthroughs in
nanotechnology (blurring the boundaries between natural and human-made molecular systems), information sciences (leading to more autonomous, intelligent machines), biosciences or life sciences (extending human life with genomics and proteomics), cognitive and neural sciences (creating artificial neural nets and decoding the human cognome), and social sciences (understanding memes and harnessing collective IQ) are poised to further pick up the pace of technological progress and perhaps change our species again in as profound a way as the first spoken language learning did some one hundred thousand generations ago."

"Social science advances (obtained from studies of real systems as well as
simulations of complex adaptive systems composed of many interacting
individuals) will provide fresh insights into the collective IQ of humans, as
well as interspecies collective IQ and the spread of memes. A meme, which is a term coined by the author and zoologist Richard Dawkins, is a habit, a
technique, a twist of feeling, a sense of things, which easily flips from one
brain to another."

"Bees (220 million years ago): New species and agent; social insect with
memes, collective IQ"



I’ll have a couple more topics later…

Hi, just adding some stuff that looks funny, but its not. Old, but u can find more it from many sources.

karmak.org...

homo ludens - playing human

Is that page real or fiction? I cant find any source links at all.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Is that page real or fiction? I cant find any source links at all.

Just google subject: norns fighter simulator or something, you'll find material.

Here some links:
www.aec.at...
agents.umbc.edu...


[edit on 26-2-2006 by HoHoFoo]