Why i think no aliens have EVER been to earth

OK!

After doing extensive research into Alien abduction,UFO sighting reports,and Crash landing stories i have come to the conclusion that none of the above have ever happened,

i know many people on here will disagree and some even claim to have experienced one of them, now before this thread becomes an arguement i want to point out this is MY belief and i welcome and questions or points which are against it

Right. Sightings are often able to be put down to natural events, for example, a common UFO sighting will involve : a light (or several) in the sky moving either in erratic fasion or at a speed no plane can go at. a few months back i was at a friends house we were sitting in the garden at around 3AM looking at the stars when we all almost at the same time noticed a white light moving incredibly fast in a PERFECT straight line above us we watched it for almost 3 minutes before is dissapeared then reapeared around 2 minutes later, it took me a long time to figure it out but i soon realised what we had seen was a satelite, in the right light conditions you can see satalites in the sky the sun reflecting off there solar panels, they also often dissapear when the travel past another slower satalite as it blocks the light for a few minutes

THis obviously does not explain all sightings but my point is even the wierdest things we see can be something normal just our imaginations run away with us

Alien abductions: 90% of all abductions happen in the USA or in english speaking countries, why would this happen, why would a FAR superior technological race land there they know england and the US have powefull governments and weaponry its illogical they would land in africa etc where they can take people with no fear of beign caught, look at it this way if you were a General invading a country where would you land your spies? right in the middle of the capital where people might notice and you risk being seen and shot at, or miles away in the middle of nowhere where there is mo military, The whole idea aliens would land in america is ludicrous THEY WOULD GO SOMEWHERE QUIET AND WHERE THEY WOULD NOT BE NOTICED!!!!

i know Many many people have abduction stories some people on here do but i believe many are simply made up and others can be caused by conditions like sleep paralisis(if you havent heard of it look on any medical information site) i myself have suffered from sleep paralisis and it is extremely scary i have seen monsters etc whilst expereincing it, most people who claim to of been abducted are already interested in aliens etc and believe in it so when they do get sleep paralisis and halucinate they see it, exactly like how many people on here can say they saw a war film before they went to bed and dreamt about being a soldier etc

Crash landings: these are hard for me as i always wonder why aliens would make a ship so advanced it could travel massive distances in a tiny amount of time but the thing couldnt fly around earth without crashing, the actual chances of it happenening are BILLIONS to one, for example if aliens exist and do visit chances are they also visit many other worlds the chances of a crash are miniscule, then of course back to my UFO sighting point why almost always in the US they have a whole planet to crash on and they just happen to crash in the USA, in my opinion this is very far fetched!

anyway thanks for reading and as i already said if some of you honestly believe these things have happened even to you then i accept your belief please accept mine!

Thanks

tom

I'll give you plenty of points for writing "Think". Even with that you may bring a wrath upon yourself.

Thinking, theories, objectivety, collective rationalization, are fundemental differences between a true skeptic in dealing with firm believers or zealots. Just read any of the long running threads where unsubstantiated claims of talking with aliens refuse to die dispite the authors never presenting one iota of proof. With that, expect them to demand you to present your proof.

I too think it'll be short time before many people start in on you about this, but I do want to make a couple of points here--not to flame, just things you should keep in mind.

Your first point is based on rather poor logic--you generalize all sightings based on the results of your own, which even that you may have misinterpreted. How did you determine that it was a satellite? It may well have been, I won't argue that they are visible and I've seen a handful myself (at least I think they were...)

You say (with my added emphasis)

THis obviously does not explain all sightings but my point is even the wierdest things we see can be something normal just our imaginations run away with us

At this point in time, ET crafts are out of what we would claim as normal, but "normal" is a very subjective and relative term. Take computers for example--it's almost expected for a household to have at least one internet capable computer online; 20 years ago home computers were most definitely not normal. A more relevant example would be that the world is round; before Columbus most Europeans thought a flat earth was normal. His discovery proved it was round, so what had been normal no longer was. If there's ever any kind of ET disclosure, alien visitation will be considered normal, at least moreso than it is now.

I won't argue with you on the sleep paralysis; I really could go either way on that, but I do think it's a bit wrong to say that all reports are such cases, and I do know that not all those who report abductions were interested in aliens before hand.

One thing I'm curious about though--are you sure that it's 90% of all abductions, or might it be 90% of all reported abductions, or even just 90% of all reported abductions that make news in English speaking nations? You might also consider that many cultures that may experience abductions don't have the capabilities to report such incidents in a manner you'll hear about, or that they won't interpret it as something associated with alien interaction.

Just my two cents

Originally posted by nullster
I'll give you plenty of points for writing "Think". Even with that you may bring a wrath upon yourself.

Thinking, theories, objectivety, collective rationalization, are fundemental differences between a true skeptic in dealing with firm believers or zealots. Just read any of the long running threads where unsubstantiated claims of talking with aliens refuse to die dispite the authors never presenting one iota of proof. With that, expect them to demand you to present your proof.

I beg to differ with you, Nullster. It's fairly simple for an intelligent person NOT to ask you for proof of your beliefs. You cannot provide such. Beliefs are intangible, my friend. And, by the way, I do respect your beliefs. Mine are different, and I choose not to give proof of them, either, simply because I cannot.

Very logical thought line leading up to your beliefs. Thanks for your opinion, I love reading what others believe and think.

Sexymon

[edit on 1/12/2006 by sexymon]

sexymon - If I was given all the physical proof, and incontrivertibal evidence that supports alien/ufo existance I could easily apply my thinking, theories, objectivety, collective rationalization to reach a conclusion. I am not locked in one way or the other.

For the record I have several interesting theories that I would never post on ATS. I always use my [Fiction] tags so as not to tempt or mislead the faithful. It's far too easy for fiction and theory to become fact.
How many alien species are we up to now?

As far as I know. As a True Skeptic there are still questions because we have no answers.

Sightings are often able to be put down to natural events, for example, a common UFO sighting will involve : a light (or several) in the sky moving either in erratic fasion or at a speed no plane can go at

True, and even most UFOlogists would agree that the majority of sightings are misidentifications of natural or manmade phenomena. However, if even ONE sighting is indeed of an ET craft, then the fact is there. Also, many sightings are by trained military officers, pilots, etc. who are all far more experienced in strange aerial phenomena more than you or I, and yet they've seen things they can't explain. Likewise, you'd have to assume that ALL of the photos, videos, radar returns, etc. are all misidentifications. That is a HUGE leap of faith....exactly what the skeptics accuse UFOlogists of. There are many, many sightings that simply cannot be explained away. In fact, there were enough of these to launch SEVERAL government projects to investigate them as a threat to national security. (Grudge, Sign, Bluebook, etc.) So obviously, some very serious people have seen the reasons to assume that not all sightings are misidentifications.

For example: Rendlesham...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
or others...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Alien abductions: 90% of all abductions happen in the USA or in english speaking countries, why would this happen, why would a FAR superior technological race land there they know england and the US have powefull governments and weaponry its illogical they would land in africa etc where they can take people with no fear of beign caught

First, your assumed percentage is WAY off. South American countries alone have a huge percentage of the pie. Also, you're claiming that the all HAPPEN in the USA, etc...or is it more that a good percentage are REPORTED in those areas....??? Could this be due to media access perhaps? Say you're in a village in Africa. Do you really think that person's abduction experience is likely to make it to the UFOlogists in general? See, this is based on assumption, not evidence. There are MANY cases of abduction that cannot be so easily dismissed. I'd recommend looking into my thread on the Hill Abduction Case, and then see how you feel on abductions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Crash landings: these are hard for me as i always wonder why aliens would make a ship so advanced it could travel massive distances in a tiny amount of time but the thing couldnt fly around earth without crashing

Oddly enough, after decades of space travel, numerous engineers, advanced computers, etc., even WE can't make a spaceship immune to crashes. Heck, we've been driving cars now for about a century, yet some crash everyday. Are you proposing that aliens are so godlike they are immune to Murphy's Law? Again, this is a severe leap of faith. Also, there is the possibility some were SHOT down perhaps. It's at least as plausible as your "no defect/no alien error" ship theory. The Roswell case of course still stands as the best evidence of a crash recovery. As the first recorded such case, there were many holes, a paper trail, and many witnesses, as the coverup program (which can also be traced through paper trails) was not yet in place. You can see more evidence than you ever wanted here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Simply put, you are entitled to your beliefs...but they are just that, beliefs, if you only use suppositions and assumptions as arguments for your case. Refute the facts I've presented in just the few examples I've linked to. If you start to find that you can't refute them, then perhaps you'll then be forced to re-examine those beliefs. In the end, all are free to believe what they wish...but I've presented the evidence...the rest is up to you.

Originally posted by nullster
As far as I know. As a True Skeptic there are still questions because we have no answers.

I agree. But one thing stands in the way of us who have at least SOME experience in this area. Me for example. I have firsthand experience. In the 1980's. If, back then, I would have removed anything from my place of employment, it would have been considered treason, punishable by death. It is easy to say that "aliens/abductions/UFO's don't exist or happen. It is very hard given the tremendous task to "prove" that they do exist, because all the evidence is in the hands of people who choose not to disclose it. They also discredit anyone who does, or just plain eliminate them. That is not fiction.

[fiction] Aliens can't exist because ther is no proof. [/fiction]

We believers and especially us knowers are against insurmountable odds. You can simply say "I don't believe because........xyz."

[edit on 1/12/2006 by sexymon]

Originally posted by Gazrok

Alien abductions: 90% of all abductions happen in the USA or in english speaking countries, why would this happen, why would a FAR superior technological race land there they know england and the US have powefull governments and weaponry its illogical they would land in africa etc where they can take people with no fear of beign caught

First, your assumed percentage is WAY off. South American countries alone have a huge percentage of the pie. Also, you're claiming that the all HAPPEN in the USA, etc...or is it more that a good percentage are REPORTED in those areas....??? Could this be due to media access perhaps? Say you're in a village in Africa. Do you really think that person's abduction experience is likely to make it to the UFOlogists in general? See, this is based on assumption, not evidence. There are MANY cases of abduction that cannot be so easily dismissed. I'd recommend looking into my thread on the Hill Abduction Case, and then see how you feel on abductions.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Theres proberbly a phenomenol amount of abduction cases in countries outside the western world that go unreported

look at all the children in eastern countries that get kidnapped and don't even get looked into untill they turn up 5 years later.

if you read my other post about alien life you will see i firmly believe there is inteligent life somewhere else in the universe, problem is there are so many thousands of fakes and frauds in this buisness that it becomes hard to believe some people who tell stories about UFO and alien phenomena, i was in a bit of a bad mood when i made that post, i do in a way believe that aliens may of visited earth but it really gets at me when people make up stories and claim to of seen things which are clearly natural not alien,

I mean look at the roswell autopsy video which has been universally decleared as bunk gives people who believe a bad name, we get persecuted for our beliefs by many people which is why i love ATS as we can all actually discuss our beliefs and ideas just last night i had a blinding row with someone about it who claimed i was crazy for what it thought if it wasnt for these hoaxers we wouldnt get these problems

once again sorry bout that i realise reading it im simply explaining one group of explanations not the whole picture,

PS does anybody have any info or links on UK saucer crashs i did hear of one but cant remember where it was etc

tom

Using your example....

Are you religious?

Do you believe in a God?

You don't have to answer...but consider the following.

If you do believe in a religion, are not the others then false? Are there not some religions you believe are simply crackpots? Yet, do the beliefs of the crackpots mean then that your religion is a sham?

Here's another example...

Do you believe that some people are truly psychic?

What then about all the flim-flam artists out there? Does their existence somehow then invalidate the genuine psychics?

And we can go on and on......

The thing is, no matter how many nutjobs and wackos try to sell a book on bogus claims, etc., if even ONE account is true, then it means we're being visited by other beings.

If you had told someone in London, 100 years ago, that one day he could get to New York in 2 hours, he would have thought you were mad. We've gone from horse and buggies to setting foot on the moon in just over half a century....so the argument of distance and travel seems to be a moot point if discussing an older species....as we presume a more tech advanced race to be....

Interestingly enough...your conclusions kind of mirror how I used to look at Atlantis...

I felt that all of the wacko stories and accounts made it all just too bogus.

I've looked into all kinds of location theories, etc.

Then I really sat down and studied the writings of Plato on it. Amazingly, the details became pretty clear, and I found myself agreeing with a position I originally thought ridiculous.... Atlantis best fits the Altiplano region in South America, and that both the city and the continent shared the name. I'd refer one to Jim Allen's research on this.

Didn't mean to take the detour, so apologies, but just wanted to give you an example to show that I know where you're coming from here... It's hard to accept the real cases when so much BS is out there...

That's why it's important to look at each case on it's own merit, with the idea that the majority could be fakes or even honest misidentifications, and only after such analysis, should we entertain the notion that indeed an ET craft may be the explanation.....

I know that MOST sightings can be explained by natural phenomena. But what abou the others?

What about the Credited 'witnesses' that say they worked in the US Govt and saw strange creatures? Ships?

I know there are many ex-govt officials that come out when they are retired and in the last yrs of life with these stories, FACTS TO Explain these noted ppl?

I AGREE that MOST of the ABDUCTIONS are simply dreams, or imagination, or done for attention. But, what of the ppl that NEVER TELL ABYONE ABOUT THEIR Experiences??????

TOO MANY PPL SEEM TO HAVE THIS PHEMONENA HAPPENING TO THEM..

I know of a group(5 ppl) that ALL SAW A UFO. They have never ran to the Media, because the Media will make them look crazy and like fools. These 5 ppl did see something.......alll saw the same thing?
WHAT OF THAT?
The event was nt discussed by them until years later..

PS does anybody have any info or links on UK saucer crashs i did hear of one but cant remember where it was etc

You may be thinking of the crash alleged to occur near Brighton around the 50's. I believe the idea was that 4 bodies were recovered, but I don't recall there being a lot of info out there about it...might try a search though, so that should be enough to start... I think it was '59, but not sure...

What gazrok said about religion and pyschics is not what my point was. I was saying that i DO believe that these things may happen but the shams and liars are ruining the chance of anything ever coming out

Look at it this way: The Gov. clearly love the liars and fakes as they are in a way helping to make people not believe, The people who use this forum are a hardcore of believers and intelligent individuals but we are viewed by many people as 'conspiracy nuts' or whatever, this is down to the liars and frauds who have been found out being in the public eye and this is helping to make our group look like nuts.

The gov. must love the fraudsters i wouldnt put it past them deliberatly realising the false information so people find out its false and fewer and fewer people believe in these phenomena.

Its a terrible thing when not only do the government control the mainstream press and how we see the world but they can influence people to believe we are now some kind of nuts

If think the whole "Government" label is all worn out. This isn't the 1960's anymore. It's time people make out some specifics instead of branding a nebulous entity as the root of all evil. There are plenty of important people in "Government" who are very intrigued by the subject matter.

The truth is Aliens and UFOs are a very creative subject. Virtually anyone can claim to be an expert on UFO's and Aliens because there is nothing about the subject grounded in physical proof or incontrovertible fact. All it takes is some minor creativety, a few beers, wishful thinking, and myth making can begin. What the UFO/Alien community needs to do is come down hard on charlatans that claim to talk to aliens and excuse themselves out of ever showiing proof.

The biggest threat to the UFO/Alien phenomenon is not the "Government" but the weak, easily impressed minds of the faithful. If people would be more objective to weed out the nonsense that can bloat this forum, there might return to a form of dignity and self respect. Otherwise this topic will always be best suited to the fringe who are too busy pointing the finger at everyone else.

It's time to put the smackdown on the double speak charlatans
It's time to hold people accountable to the claims they make. And have a nice day

[edit on 13-1-2006 by nullster]

Of course the skeptics love the "nuts".

Whenever one attempts to discredit ANY group of people, they will constantly hold up the most extreme and ridiculous examples (and always last), to basically destroy any hopes of taking the matter seriously.

It doesn't matter that Oswald as a lone assassin simply doesn't fit the facts, the public at large still accepts the explanation...and so on.

Personally, I'm on no crusade to try and wake up those with their heads in the sand. I'm more interested in showing that there is some incredible and irrefutable evidence that needs to be looked at, in regards to the subject. But, when I see the same logic used by debunkers, that they accuse UFOlogists of...I tend to go on the offensive/defensive a bit, hehe.....

Popek,
How can you? Your comments are an outrage and insult to the observational and comprehensional abilities of all the inebriated rednecks who have personally been aboard alien vehicles. Do we just write off these well informed, clear-thinking individuals who have spent years preparing with Budweiser and Muscatel for a scientifically influenced assessment and explanation of their combined experiences?
Shame popek, Shame!
I think I see one now; hic! Pass another Bud.
skep

because of the idea there might be gods.
let me say it like this because of the koran,bible,tora
ect. they predict aliens they are about aliens and are stories
of aliens visiting and doing thing with technology which seems at that time like magic and godlike.

to go on sumeria had knowledge of them
the people of dropa knew about it.
all like to say clue is sirius/orion connection.

that are one of the reasons of aliens being real
and that they have visited.

only problem is they have introduced to us religion , deliberetly or not
but it is not a good thing for our people having that introduced.
but it is a great way of controling people and technological development. and for the population control.

that is why i am not happy with religion I went to christian schools but i have come to see the light and not the light of a god but that the mayor religions are completly wrong and power hungery. that is why I regret it that the coming of aliens in our past have let to creation of religion.

and that is why I see the theory presented to us by sf serie stargate is more likely to be more to the truth than what the mayor religion say.

sorry don't want to hurt anybody by saying this but sometimes it must be done to introduce other ideas than accepted by the mainstream.

gods were aliens
the aliens were god of our religions

if they are god or bad is to be seen but that they have introduced religion by coming then when we weren ready is an act against humanity because many have died for nothing because of fals religions and believes based on wrongly looking at the facts because of lak of technological knowledge.

many thing which gone on then we can do to nowadays.

so a now believe aliens are there and gods aren't god.

far in the past they believed in spirits then they went to gods
and from that they gone to one god per religion.

why is this?

but aliens are real and they will come back.

one possible thing why religion is here is that the aliens had said or wrote something and the people didn't understand and wrote it down after telling the story with more and more wrong facts and so they wrote koran and bible with wrong facts and so when aliens were trying to prepare us they accidently created religion and now we are far from prepared.



[edit on 13-1-2006 by MarkLuitzen]

skep did you read my second post? or are you being sarcastic im very confused!

Like i said i can see reasoning for aliens but im just very peeved at the people who make up stories and make it very difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff

Originally posted by popek

Why i think no aliens have EVER been to earth

at what time period does your extensive research begin?

what about the bible and ancient text's, i'm confused with your title,

Why i think no aliens have EVER been to earth

or

Why i think no one has been abducted

The Betty Hill story is one of the best Abduction cases
also another interesting event was the Operation Prato