Police getting powerful enough to eviict people from their homes

It said families didn't it? The kids are part yes but more or less it is the whole family I thought. some are lazy and ingnorant I agree but not all some just get painted into a corner.

Sofricow,

Again, the manner of your post is devoid of putting the blame on more local influence's. My personal opinion, it starts at home and at school. BTW, I am a parent. Oldest kid is 7 years old. Youngest is 4 years old. And from my experience, at 6 my kid started thinking I knew "dick all". All in all, that's part of growing up. We all get like that at a certain stage of our life. I would hazard a guess that you don't have kids of your own. You seem to not know much. Kids I do know from friends don't really follow the new's or politic's. They do however follow music and movies and video game's. Ultimatly it is up to the parent to decide if these influence's of music, movies and game's is right for the child. As a parent you would know it really has nothing to do with Enron.

Parent's have no power? Now I'm sure you don't have kids.

Monkey see monkey do is RIGHT - and kids aren't stupid. They know their parents have no power - and they know bloody well who DOES have the power.

So that's who they copy - the Halliburtons, and Cheneys, and Enrons because that's who has the power and makes the rules. Take a real good look around and tell me I'm not wrong.

I'm sorry, I don't agree.

I've noticed one thing that determines kids from certian areas, respect. They spit, swear, rob people, vandalise the area, etc.

Every time the parents are asked, "Why are they like this?", the reply is always the same; "I can't control them". That's right, you can't. Because you could never be arsed with bringing them up in the first place, they were dragged up.

And I bet you ten quid they haven't got a clue who Halliburtons, Cheneys, and Enrons are. They can't tell the difference from bloody carrots and parsnips (thank you, Jamie Oliver) let alone them three. They bloody know their Nike, McDonalds and Emimem though.

Parenting, plain and simple. Bugger all to do with anything else - it's not a conspiracy you know!



[edit on 11/1/2006 by FactoryLad]

Source

"People who come in at two or three in the morning, playing music in a destructive way, abusing anyone who dares to take them on that is just not acceptable. They must learn to behave properly to other people.
...
I have absolutely nothing against young people going out on a Friday or Saturday night and having a good time," he said.

"We've all had one too many glasses of wine, or one too many beers. But we don't have a desire then to go out and beat people up.

Wait a minute... Aren't there already laws about noise after a certain time? Drunk and disorderly conduct? Assault? Please tell me that laws against this behavior already exist.

"The answer is to come down hard on the small minority who abuse the situation. It's one of the few things that makes me really very angry."

I agree with this. Are they coming down on those who already abuse the law?

I don't know about the UK, but here in the USA we do have law's for those. Obviously they don't work effectivly enough and don't get enforced any where nearly as much as they should. I really hope the USA adopt's this law.

Also on that article you linked to it says it was adopted from a similar law in scotland that has shown some success.

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticWait a minute... Aren't there already laws about noise after a certain time? Drunk and disorderly conduct? Assault? Please tell me that laws against this behavior already exist.

D&D yes - arrestable and £80 fine. Assualt? Definatley a law on that one!

Noise after a certian time? Nope, all down to the local council and their policies. If you have a mildy good council, they might send out a someone with a clipboard asking the problem house owners to "keep the noise down, please".

Produkt and FactoryLad - kids are FAR more aware of the world than you seem to know. And yes, they absolutely go with the flow, including local flows not just national or international ones.

My question: Why should kids behave honorably when rich and powerful people do not? Why should kids act honestly and with respect, when rich and powerful people stay rich and powerful by lying, cheating, stealing and stomping on the weak and vulnerable?



...BTW, I do have kids. Good ones and I'm proud of them. They know how to think.

.

Soficrow, I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have not witnessed any of the traits you've mentioned in any of the problem kids i've had the pleasure of meeting.

Mine is a totally UK perspective, I cannot say anything about US kids. I've never met one.

Produkt they already have in the US if you do live in subsidised housing you do have a code of conduct law. If you break them you are out on the street.

Originally posted by FactoryLad
D&D yes - arrestable and £80 fine. Assualt? Definatley a law on that one!

So, then why do they need additional laws and punishments? Why don't they just enforce the laws they have and perhaps make a law about noise regulations?

Taking people out of their homes is just ghastly! This whole thing blows me away! I don't know why more people aren't just gobsmacked!

And WTF is "anti-social behavior" in the UK? I'm about as anti-social as they come. Are the authorities going to come and drag me out and make me go to social events? And have tea?

The State invading the privacy of people, and going as far as evicting them for "teaching" how to properly behave in society??? How does the government knows better how to behave correclty towards other individuals. Should the people do like the cops, stop spitting on senior citizens and rather and beat Black people to death on the streets? What is this??? I don't believe it, man. This is 1984. It's right there!

The State has NO legitimacy over our own private lives, no matter if its inside or outside the home, as long nobody does criminal things with endangers the lives and liberties of other... and even there, the police is just imposing itself to do what people could easily do on their own. If you have a problem with a neighbor, TALK to him, in a honest matter. If he still does problem to you, then organize a collective action against him. And if it still does'nt work then maybe it's a good time to call the cops.

If senior citizens would actually take the time to talk to kids rather than calling the police everytime they see a young couple kissing in the park in front of their house, then perhaps they would have a little bit more respect from teenagers, and the government would see no reason for doing POWER ABUSES such as these.

[edit on 11/1/06 by Echtelion]

Originally posted by FactoryLad
Soficrow, I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have not witnessed any of the traits you've mentioned in any of the problem kids i've had the pleasure of meeting.

Mine is a totally UK perspective, I cannot say anything about US kids. I've never met one.

Cool - but the kids I know from the UK are even more class conscious than American and Canadian kids. ...And that's what the kids see - different rules for different classes. So they rebel. ...Maybe talk to a few more kids you know and see if you can get them to open up about what's really making them so angry?


And could you please try to answer my questions, honestly?

Why should kids behave honorably when rich and powerful people do not? Why should kids act honestly and with respect, when rich and powerful people stay rich and powerful by lying, cheating, stealing and stomping on the weak and vulnerable?

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticSo, then why do they need additional laws and punishments? Why don't they just enforce the laws they have and perhaps make a law about noise regulations?

It's more of a deterrent. I can't speak for US law or court systems, but here in the UK problem neighbours can be a nightmare for others. Contant 24 hours a day 7 days a week noise, problem kids, vandalism, swearing, intimidating other residents, making a nuicence of themselves, constants arguments, pointless disputes with neighbours...None of these are offences...well, appart from vandalism...that's criminal damage, got ahead of myself there.

Sure, you might get the odd offence that someone could be arrested for, but they'd hardly get a prision sentence. A fine, a caution, a telling off from the judge. Maybe if someone turned around and said "Buck your ideas up or you out", maybe it might have an impact.

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticTaking people out of their homes is just ghastly! This whole thing blows me away! I don't know why more people aren't just gobsmacked!

They don't own them. They're council housing owned by (wait for it) the council. Why should the council bother keeping people in a house when there are hundreds on waiting lists who would actually be greatful for having a home?

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticAnd WTF is "anti-social behavior" in the UK? I'm about as anti-social as they come. Are the authorities going to come and drag me out and make me go to social events?

And have tea?

Tea? Is that a reference to that American myth that everyone in the UK stops at 3pm for cups of tea and cakes?

Anti-social behaviour is basically acting like a prat and getting away with it, making everyone else miserable. That's how "anti-social behaviour" is viewed in the UK, it might have a different meaning over the pond.

[edit on 11/1/2006 by FactoryLad]

[edit on 11/1/2006 by FactoryLad]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

And WTF is "anti-social behavior" in the UK? I'm about as anti-social as they come. Are the authorities going to come and drag me out and make me go to social events?

And have tea?

I can see it now. The two of us dragged off to afternoon tea and deep conversations with the neighbor ladies about makeup and recipes.

Originally posted by Echtelion

The State invading the privacy of people, and going as far as evicting them for "teaching" how to properly behave in society??? How does the government knows better how to behave correclty towards other individuals. Should the people do like the cops, stop spitting on senior citizens and rather and beat Black people to death on the streets? What is this???

I don't believe it, man. This is 1984. It's right there!

Uh huh.

...These laws go far beyond the normal rules and conditions of tenancy - and enforcement abilities of landowners - to criminalize ordinary people with everyday problems. A sign of the times IMO, straight out of 1984.

If ...then ...the government would see no reason for doing POWER ABUSES such as these.

Not a reason - a rationalization and justification - another marketing ploy to get people to support the laws that take their freedoms.

Originally posted by soficrowAnd could you please try to answer my questions, honestly?

Why should kids behave honorably when rich and powerful people do not? Why should kids act honestly and with respect, when rich and powerful people stay rich and powerful by lying, cheating, stealing and stomping on the weak and vulnerable?

I can see where your coming from, but in my experience the only news I've seen kids digest is that "Ay mate, cannabis is leagal now ain't it?" with reference to the downgrading of cannabis from a grade "B" illegal substance to a grade "C" illegal substance which occoured a few years ago.

The kids I'm refering to are the ones who are constant problems who are always in trouble with the police. I'm no youth worker, but it might have to do with their bleak outlook on life.

And the intelligent naughty kids out there who have a working knowledge of the criminal justice system, read the Times, are aware of global politics and industrialism...well, they're that good they just don't get caught!

Why should kids behave honorably when rich and powerful people do not? Why should kids act honestly and with respect, when rich and powerful people stay rich and powerful by lying, cheating, stealing and stomping on the weak and vulnerable?

Easy EASY answer. Because your the damn parent! Take control and discipline. Teach them right from wrong. If a parent fails to exercise a certain level of discipline and control over their kids then they should be raising kids to begin with. Parenting equals alot of responsability, it DOES NOT equal placing the blame on other thing's. If a parent doesn't know what a kid is up to at all time's, they aren't doing their job as a parent.

BlackThought,

would be nice if they extend it to include everyone. I could've used it quite a few time's myself.

Echtelion,

No, this is 1984... it's 2006
Anywho, I do believe the state does have every right to step in when it get's to the point that people are starting to loose commin decency and respect of other's and when the police are getting so many damn complaints it's just ridiculous.

Tea? Is that a reference to that American myth that everyone in the UK stops at 3pm for cups of tea and cakes?

LMAO I have a friend in the UK that does that! We make fun of him alot for it. Another friend won't even admit she drink's tea, but we all know she secretly love's it

FL - I don't think kids need specific knowledge of current events to pick up on how things really work in this world and get bloody PO'd about it.

...The problems you're talking about are real, and common to most poor areas around the world. IMO - poor people are herded together and encouraged to turn on each other so the real culprits don't get nailed. So the poor - adults and kids alike - lash out at whoever is nearby and handy - when from a certain perspective, they should be heading across town to hold the real perpetrators of their misery accountable.

There are better solutions than criminalizing the victims and victimizing them even more than they already are.

I think I'll stop now. Writing off the top of my head will get me trouble every time.

Originally posted by ProduktLMAO I have a friend in the UK that does that! We make fun of him alot for it. Another friend won't even admit she drink's tea, but we all know she secretly love's it

Sorry to go off topic for a second but...

I love tea. I'm a right tea belly, me

Tea and cakes at 3pm? Hope she doesn't tell anyone else, she'd probably get the same response from everyone else in the UK

I hope you are not equating poverty with bad kids. Here in America there are bad kids in all classes. It is just the ones with money are the ones that continue to get off.

I have seen bad behavior in college kids that if a neighborhood kid did the same offence they would go to jail. I have a feeling it is the same in UK. Now we want to drag the parents in by taking their home as well? I guess you are saying less well off kids cannot afford to be caught being bad. What does that say about the rule of law and the community?

I remeber another group of people that started a strict common code of conduct... the Taliban.

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

FactoryLand,

She claim's to drink coffee ... obviously lying!

Blackthought,

Absolutly right! It come's from all income bracket's, not just the poor.