ATS: NSA Whistleblower, Russell Tice, Steps Forward

About 5 years in a federal detainment facility in Kansas seems about right for the admitted security leaker. There are ways to draw attention to classified practices other than by going public and the guy should have used them. What he did instead is commit a treasonus act that he knew in advance was against the law and against his own oath. Punishment is therefore warranted.

Originally posted by Pyros
What many people are overlooking is that there ARE systems in place to balance these activities. There ARE reporting channels that cleared employees can use to report fraud, waste, abuse, and illegal activities within government agencies. There ARE honorable and decent men and women who work within these agencies who would never assume to act unilaterally - without congressional oversight and judicial review. Members of congress were briefed on these activites, and the budgets for these activites (where congress can exercise its power over the executive branch) were approved.

What remains to be seen is if this joker actually tried to USE any of these reporting/failsafe systems before he went a ran his mouth to the most anti-administration newspaper in this land. I smell book deals, TV interviews, and the lecture circuit.

The man is a confessed felon, IMHO. Send him to Ft. Leavenworth.

How can you be so sure that those other "more secret" venues aren't corrupt? What if he would've came out to them, and they just send him to jail and nobody hears his story. It is far safer to come out to the national media, if you get punished, you become a martyr, the people get your message and see the governments response. When you work in the government, you work for the people, and if not you should be hung.

- Attero

Edit: And we all know that the majority of politicians are owned by corporations, and thus care only about corporate interests and not the peoples'.

[edit on 12-1-2006 by Attero Auctorita]

When you work for the government, you work for the people

This is what everyone is forgetting. In my opinion, what this guy disclosed does not hinder or endanger the country in the least bit. What it does hinder or endanger, is the government thats gone wayyyy past working for the people and into working for its own motives.

Is it illegal? Sure. Is what he disclosed a closely guarded secret? Uhm.. no.. we've been talking about it here on ATS for years now.. he just confirmed it.

Should he go to jail? Maybe.

Should the people he's putting out in the public eye deserve to go to jail should be a better question.

Originally posted by QuietSoul

When you work for the government, you work for the people

This is what everyone is forgetting. In my opinion, what this guy disclosed does not hinder or endanger the country in the least bit.

The laws regarding protection of classified information have evolved over a lot of years, they were not just adopted wholesale recently--The laws work. Without knowing all the details of what was disclosed, when it was disclosed, etc. we really are not in a position to make value judgements concerning what harm was done.

What it does hinder or endanger, is the government thats gone wayyyy past working for the people and into working for its own motives.

That statement reflects a value judgement again and may or may not reflect the true situation. The Bush administration people may believe strongly that they are working for the people.

Should the people he's putting out in the public eye deserve to go to jail should be a better question.

That is an entirely different question. If it turns out that someone or everyone in the Bush administration should go to jail is something that can only be determined by a thorough investigation.

Tice should be recognized as a hero.

To see someone "in the know" truly following the oath to protect the constitution from her enemies, both foreign and domestic, is a refreshing change compared to the corruption and deceit seen on capitol hill as of late.

Our forefathers' greatest fear was excessive governmental power, and to see the checks and balances they placed in this system disolving is a disgrace that can only be righted by more heros like Tice, who bring the truth to the forefront where it cannot be swept under the rug and so easily and dismissed.



[edit on 1/12/06 by redmage]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm sure many here will lionize this guy, but he's a traitor pure and simple and should be treated as such.

Lethal injection would be too kind.

Perhaps the best statement ever placed on this website.

Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I'm sure many here will lionize this guy, but he's a traitor pure and simple and should be treated as such.

Lethal injection would be too kind.

Perhaps the best statement ever placed on this website.

Golf clap!




(Did I just pulled a Godwin? Oh, well. It was worth it.)

Treason Or Patriotism?

I respect this guy for at least having the guts to say in public what he told newspaper reporters in private.

What I don't respect is anyone unilaterally deciding to publicly disclose classified information in violation of federal law.

He says he's "prepared to tell Congress all he knows about the alleged wrongdoing in these programs" according to the source article, but was he prepared to use the reporting procedures already in place to notify Congress non-publicly?

There has been a disturbing, longstanding and growing trend in the U.S. intelligence community to publicly disclose classified information at opportune moments for political purposes.

There are also troubling indications that certain factions of the U.S. intelligence community effectively operate completely outside U.S. law and are effectively at war with the legitimate government of the United States.

Is this man one of them, or is he one of the "good guys"?

I would like to know, but truth is as rare as hen's teeth in a world dominated by propaganda, disinformation and information warfare programs.

While I have no kind words for anyone who would publicly disclose classified information except under the most extraordinary and indisputably-justifiable of circumstances, I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt for now.

However, I would like to see him have his day in court as well as his day in Congress.

If they exonerate him, then I will salute him for his courage.

If not, then I would like to see this guy properly punished for his crimes.

Here's hoping that we are at least given the courtesy of knowing how this ends.

Right on, Majic!

It has come to light as of today that this individual did not make any attempt to report possible wrong doing via official channels. Apparently, Mr. Tice has received an offical letter from NSA Security warning him about his continuing responsibility to protect classified information, and that disclosing said information to uncleared members of congress and the media will result in his arrest and prosecution.

The letter specifically states that Mr. Tice failed to notify either NSA or Pentagon officials about any concerns he may have had, as he is required to do by law, and that prior to reporting anything to congress he must first pursue a remedy through these channels. He must also obtain and follow direction from the DoD on the proper procedures for disclosing classified information to congress, as he is required to do so by law.

Individuals cannot pick and choose who they can disclose classified information to. That is the basis of the whole system. it is not enough to say "the DoD will never listen to me, and I will never get a fair shake". You must try, using the established channels and resources. This guy is just another tool looking to make a name for himself - at the exspense of our collective national security.

And since Mr. Tice was not actually accessed to the actual NSA program at issue, just what is it he wants to tell congress?

The Washington Times has a good article on the subject, which can be found here.

And by the way, does anybody care to take a guess as to why NSA revoked Russ Tice's security clearance in the first place?????

Interesting article.

I am especially interested in the "non-communications signals (and) electronic warfare" programs - particularly the ones directed against American Internet users.

Do you think that information might be declassified?

I cannot see how "Electronic warfare" programs could ever be used against US infrastruture. That is a tactical mititary application.

However, I would interpret "non-communication signals" as probably offensive and defensive "Information Assurance" activies...i.e. hacking.

Originally posted by Pyros
I cannot see how "Electronic warfare" programs could ever be used against US infrastruture. That is a tactical mititary application.

However, I would interpret "non-communication signals" as probably offensive and defensive "Information Assurance" activies...i.e. hacking.

There is much, MUCH more going on in the field Pyros, for example:

Neuromarketing: Straight to the Brain


Read it - and then consider the military applications.



.

I though that any media playing with the minds of the American consumers as subliminal messages is illegal.

Originally posted by marg6043
I though that any media playing with the minds of the American consumers as subliminal messages is illegal.

No, no marg. What's illegal is Internet users who annoy people.

Originally posted by soficrow
No, no marg. What's illegal is Internet users who annoy people.

You are right specially the ones that are Bush bashers.

Originally posted by soficrow
Interesting article.

I am especially interested in the "non-communications signals (and) electronic warfare" programs - particularly the ones directed against American Internet users.

Do you think that information might be declassified?

Perhaps in a hundred years or so, but probably not. It is really nothing you would likely be interested in anyway.

More interesting info in that video interview and transcript at
www.democracynow.org.../01/03/1435201

If you have the attention span to sit through the long interview, Tice addressed many of those questions I've seen discussed in ATSNN forum.

RUSSELL TICE: Well, as far as an intelligence officer, especially a SIGINT officer at N.S.A., we're taught from very early on in our careers that you just do not do this. This is probably the number one commandment of the SIGINT Ten Commandments as a SIGINT officer. You will not spy on Americans. It is drilled into our head over and over and over again in security briefings, at least twice a year, where you ultimately have to sign a paper that says you have gotten the briefing. Everyone at N.S.A. who’s a SIGINT officer knows that you do not do this. Ultimately, so do the leaders of N.S.A., and apparently the leaders of N.S.A. have decided that they were just going to go against the tenets of something that’s a gospel to a SIGINT officer.

RUSSELL TICE: Well, basically I was given my walking papers and told I was no longer a federal employee. So --

AMY GOODMAN: Why?

RUSSELL TICE: Some time ago I had some concerns about a co-worker at D.I.A. who exhibited the classic signs of being involved in espionage, and I reported that and basically got blown off by the counterintelligence office at D.I.A. and kind of pushed the issue, because I continued to see a pattern of there being a problem. And once I got back to N.S.A., I pretty much dropped the issue, but there was a report that came across my desk in April of 2003 about two F.B.I. agents that were possibly passing secret counterintelligence information to a Chinese double agent, Katrina Leung, and I sent a secure message back to the D.I.A. counterintelligence officer, and I said I think the F.B.I. is incompetent, and the retaliation came down on me like a ton of bricks.

RUSSELL TICE: But nonetheless, we're all taught that you don't do something like this. And I’m certainly hoping that the President has been misled in what’s going on here and that the true crux of this problem is in the leadership of the intelligence community.

AMY GOODMAN: You're saying in the leadership of your own agency, the National Security Agency?

RUSSELL TICE: That's correct, yeah, because certainly General Alexander and General Hayden and Bill Black knew that this was illegal.

AMY GOODMAN: But they clearly had to have authorization from above, and Bush is not contending that he did not know.

RUSSELL TICE: Well, that's true. But the question has to be asked: What did the President know? What was the President told about this? It's just -- there's just too many variables out there that we don't know yet. And, ultimately, I think Congress needs to find out those answers. If the President was fed a bill of goods in this matter, then that's something that has to be addressed. Or if the President himself knew every aspect of what’s going on, if this was some sort of vacuum cleaner deal, then it is ultimately, I would think, the President himself that needs to be held responsible for what’s going on here.

Obviously, we have to take his word for it, until we see the other side of the fence publically giving their version of the story. I noticed he's being very careful speaking in "if" situation not to openelly disclose any classified stuff, he didn't even go into details about his clearences or anything. So don't be so quick calling him a traitor, unless you know something I don't, he could as well be the one who burned himself trying to save YOU.


[edit on 13-1-2006 by ufia]

I fail to see how this is such a large threat to national security. To the security of those who set up and gave the ok for the program, yes...

Would it not be good security practice for a terrorist organization to assume that all of their communications are tapped and all their activities observed? So then that just leaves the citizens of the US who are being spied upon by their government.

This story has only confirmed what many have thought for a long time. Even before Carnivore and Echelon. I am curious as to why the US government is so afraid of its citizens?

"He says he's "prepared to tell Congress all he knows about the alleged wrongdoing in these programs" according to the source article, but was he prepared to use the reporting procedures already in place to notify Congress non-publicly? "


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maybe he didn't have a few million for the proper bribes to get their ears?